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Patron's Trust

slotmachine

First Grade
Messages
7,366
Haha, good work boys!

I guess it doesn't matter in the end. Tew and Burro have got themselves in a pissing contest with only one outcome.

I expect the front page of the Herald tomorrow will feature a petition calling for their sacking.
 

Karmawave

Bench
Messages
4,950
No Alex, probably not, but I guess we wait for Tinklers next move and see if he does prove them wrong?

Overall what doesn't sit well with me, is that Burraston has been trying hard behind the scenes to get this Patron Model up and working for a LONG time, and I just get a gut feeling that both he and Tew have some kind of vested interest in the thing.

If that's the case and they did make it harder than norm to negotiate with Tinkler, then that would be more ' sinister ' than anything Tinkler has alleged to have done. One of Tinklers big issues is that the Knights have ' procrastinated '. Could it be that the Knights were procrastinating intentionally because they really wanted this patrons model to get into action all along? Certainly the incredibly fast timing of the ' patrons model ' announcement seems a bit weird for my liking. Some may view it as being proactive. Others - like myself - hold a more dubious ( maybe paranoid ) view that maybe it was carefully managed and staged all along to push Burraston and Tews real agenda.

On top of that, the fact Burraston has come out saying that the Patrons Model doesn't need member support is another massive, MASSIVE concern that only fuels the above thoughts. If you truly wanted to do what is right by the fans and members, wouldn't Burraston WANT to put any prospective plan to vote - whether he technically has to or not? Seems a bit off to me. Then again if its just a simple handout donation, who wouldn't want it. But surely there's more to it all than that.

Again, all we are doing is speculating, but there are definitely some things that don't seem quite right - from both angles.
 
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roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
Tew and Burraston will bring out an annual report fairly soon. If they can add in the money from the patrons trust they will be able to announce we are debt free, are increasing the football budget substantially and have budget projections from the new stand that dwarfs our current income.
They will be hard to sack after that.
 
Messages
2,729
$6 mill pledged to the Trust already according to Tew. If that's put to the members on Monday there should be no question what the best option for a vote was. Trust capped at $8 mill per year for 4 years only. Where does the money come from? It's a tax pit for people to dump money into a community organisation.

This option should've been talked about from the outset of the Tinkler offer. The fact it keeps power in hands of members means the idea should've been floated straight away.

It looks underhanded to raise it this afternoon, but could be easily argued we were wasting our time dealing with Tinks when we could've talked about the Trust in public.
 

strewth_mate

Bench
Messages
2,989
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if this Patrons Trust initiative is effectively a series of donations to the club, with no aspirations of ownership, why is it being discussed as a direct alternative to the TSG offer? The timing certainly raises eyebrows but really, it doesn't seem to me to be any sort of conspiracy from the board.
 

roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if this Patrons Trust initiative is effectively a series of donations to the club, with no aspirations of ownership, why is it being discussed as a direct alternative to the TSG offer? The timing certainly raises eyebrows but really, it doesn't seem to me to be any sort of conspiracy from the board.
Burraston said that the Tinkler offer actually came about after he was approached to join the Patron's trust - He wanted to take it to another level.
 

Big Tim

First Grade
Messages
6,500
Sack him now!!!! He had a holiday in the offseason!!!! He didnt see an offer coming from TSG!!!! He planned all along to make sure he was out of the country at the time this offer was tabled just to put it on hold!!!! He didnt realise TSG was going to air all its greivances in the media!!!!

Get rid of him.

Fair dinkum, I hope the next time you ask for some annual leave you get met with a big fat no.
 

Spot On

Coach
Messages
13,902
Have another choof of your peace pipe Timbo. The Tinkler offer was first tabled on Jan 17. That's five weeks ago.
 

Serc

First Grade
Messages
6,902
Firstly, not too bad posts in here today Mr Karma, and this is coming from me :p

Secondly, I will say upfront that at this point I am fairly solidly in the anti-Tinkler camp as is obvious...however I too would like to see the proof in the documents and whatever else both sides have to show just to make sure of who (or both) are telling fibs and trying to pull a swifty on the other.

No Alex, probably not, but I guess we wait for Tinklers next move and see if he does prove them wrong?

Overall what doesn't sit well with me, is that Burraston has been trying hard behind the scenes to get this Patron Model up and working for a LONG time, and I just get a gut feeling that both he and Tew have some kind of vested interest in the thing.

Well, possibly an easy answer to that is that this patron's trust has been in the works for a long time (which I think it may well have been going by macavity's posts on the subject), and had very little work left on it (as they were beginning to put the word out for people to invest in it) when Tinkler decided to try and buy the club outright.

So it was pushed to the side for the time being, so they could check out this Tinkler thing which had the potential to be even better, but now Tinkler has 'officially' nicked off, they can dust it off again and it is virtually ready to go!

This is just my little made up story that may fit the picture anyway...but I am fairly confident they have been working on this patron's trust thing for a while.

What do you think is this vested interest that Burro and Tew have, this 'real agenda'? I am genuinely curious...I too have had a bad gut feeling...but about the Tinkler deal ever since he held the knife to our throat the day after he laid down his 2nd proposal.
 
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Pedge1971

First Grade
Messages
5,898
G'day all. I am an old fella and have been a Knights supporter since foundation in 1988. Watched every game from the hill in the first 5 years and was always a proud supporter until recent times.

I have been based overseas for a while now, so not as close to the action as most people on this forum. Infact, I have been a passive observer of the threads in this forum for a long time now, and it has been entertaining as well as a good way to keep in touch with the comings and goings of my footy club. Apologies in advance if any of my comments are uninformed or I have missed something.....just wanted to put my 2 cents worth into the argument because I feel we are reaching a critical point in the clubs history, I thought I should get off my @rse, get a log in and put forward an opinion. Please feel free to correct any of the below if not factual.

The Knights may not ever go away, but I want to see us successful again, and at the moment (sadly) I don't think we can compete with the big boys with our current model.

Right, that bullsh!t aside, this is my understanding of the situation we find ourselves in:

- We are a technically a bankrupt entity, and have never really been a self sustaining enterprise. We are in debt, some of it to Nathan Tinkler;

- Nathan Tinkler is a business man with a strong and established ties with the local community, but a reputation of being hard nosed and stubborn (to say the least);

- No businessman in their right mind would pay 100 million for an entity that for over 10 years is a proven failure (regardless of the fact that it might not have always been a commercial enterprise). To think they would is plane stupidity;

- Tinkler is know as having an eye for a bargain and he has shown a good commitment to the Jets and done some good things (albeit early days). He also has a good track record in the community both business and charitable works. This is without question if you look beyond the situation with the Knights. Actually, let's look at the Knights, he has loaned us money and has not put pressure on for commercial repayment terms. This will likely change after today's events;

- No one knows what the original and current terms were/are other than the people involved directly in the negotiations. Tinkler has refuted Board claims late today that the "sponsorship" included gate and other commercial takings. Suffice to say someone is not telling the truth. I don't really care who.

- It is obvious Tinkler has agitated heavily in the last few days because he has become frustrated with the fact the process has bogged down and feels he is being stalled by the board. This includes the Snowden offer and pulling out before the meeting today. Playing the media, yes, but a standard Corporate tactic nonetheless, why are people surprised? Not saying I agree with his approach, but most successful business men are often spoiled children when they don't get what they want.

- We know little of the guaranteed commitment or otherwise required from the Trust Model other than what we are told by the Board. However, should one of the donors (let's remember that is all they are) go bust there is no way the Knights will see their money - guarantees or not. We become or (some might argue) remain a charity case.

My point is, put emotion aside and consider the facts and what will really make the club stronger. Everyone will have a different point of view on this.

My own opinion? We don't know exactly what we will get with Tinkler, but we know he has a strong regional conection, cares about the community, and (as Roopy put it), the ride will be exciting. As for the Board, we know what we will get, we have had years of it - boring mediocrity, poor decisions on and off the field and a baseline that will never see us win a premiership again. It's a gamble, but I'll take a punt on Tinkler any day over continued mediocrity. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

Pedge
 

KempoKnight

Juniors
Messages
512
The Patrons Trust money is not a hand-out. It has to be paid back at the end of the term.

"The money is there if and when we need it," Tew said.

"But yes, at this stage, whatever we use would need to be paid back."

This is there backup option they think comes even close? Its not even a no strings attached donation like Burro was claiming earlier.
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
26,505
Hey Pedge, welcome to the forums and thanks for the extensive post. i'll try to answer as much of it as possible with bold text inside the quote. it'll read easier that way and i'm too lazy to split the post up.

G'day all. I am an old fella and have been a Knights supporter since foundation in 1988. Watched every game from the hill in the first 5 years and was always a proud supporter until recent times.

I have been based overseas for a while now, so not as close to the action as most people on this forum. Infact, I have been a passive observer of the threads in this forum for a long time now, and it has been entertaining as well as a good way to keep in touch with the comings and goings of my footy club. Apologies in advance if any of my comments are uninformed or I have missed something.....just wanted to put my 2 cents worth into the argument because I feel we are reaching a critical point in the clubs history, I thought I should get off my @rse, get a log in and put forward an opinion. Please feel free to correct any of the below if not factual.

The Knights may not ever go away, but I want to see us successful again, and at the moment (sadly) I don't think we can compete with the big boys with our current model.

Right, that bullsh!t aside, this is my understanding of the situation we find ourselves in:

- We are a technically a bankrupt entity, and have never really been a self sustaining enterprise. We are in debt, some of it to Nathan Tinkler; we are in debt, yes, but most of it is carryover from sins of past administrations. the current administration has, in fact, turned our financial situation around and with the new corporate facilities available with the new stand, a far better stadium arrangement, the new indepedant commission and the new tv rights deal, i see nothing but steady prosperity for the club. it may not be the glamourous riches of Tinkler, but we arn't in the terrible place people would have you believe. $2.5 - $3mill in debt is managable for a business that turns over $12mill at least just off its own bat, without taking into account NRL grants and such.

- Nathan Tinkler is a business man with a strong and established ties with the local community, but a reputation of being hard nosed and stubborn (to say the least); yes, to say the least.

- No businessman in their right mind would pay 100 million for an entity that for over 10 years is a proven failure (regardless of the fact that it might not have always been a commercial enterprise). To think they would is plane stupidity; i don't care if he doesn't put a cent into the club - if he's good enough. pissing in our pocket an underwriting income streams that we generate $12mill of revenue from for $10mill isn't good enough. not only does it give him no incentive to increase our revenue, our income can actually decrease by $2mill before he even puts his hand in his pocket! not good enough, i'm afraid. i have no problem with him included all of the stated income streams, but the figure would have to be increased to something in the order of $15mill a year, if he's going to be fair dinkum, or alternatively deliver what he promised initially (is that so much to ask?) and only underwrite a limited number of our income streams - those being related to sponsorship.

- Tinkler is know as having an eye for a bargain and he has shown a good commitment to the Jets and done some good things (albeit early days). He also has a good track record in the community both business and charitable works. This is without question if you look beyond the situation with the Knights. Actually, let's look at the Knights, he has loaned us money and has not put pressure on for commercial repayment terms. This will likely change after today's events; absolutely he has good eyes for a bargain, that's why he's trying to pick us up on the cheap (i.e free). yes, he loaned us money, and the minute he made a play for ownership of the Knights, he called that debt in - to place further pressure on the deal. good to have leverage, eh?

- No one knows what the original and current terms were/are other than the people involved directly in the negotiations. Tinkler has refuted Board claims late today that the "sponsorship" included gate and other commercial takings. Suffice to say someone is not telling the truth. I don't really care who. This i do agree with. hopefully more is revealed in the coming week, culminating in the meeting next Monday.

- It is obvious Tinkler has agitated heavily in the last few days because he has become frustrated with the fact the process has bogged down and feels he is being stalled by the board. This includes the Snowden offer and pulling out before the meeting today. Playing the media, yes, but a standard Corporate tactic nonetheless, why are people surprised? Not saying I agree with his approach, but most successful business men are often spoiled children when they don't get what they want. the process hasn't been bogged down in the slightest. the knights have been racing madly to get this ready in the timeframes they've been provided by an extremely pushy Nathan Tinkler.

- We know little of the guaranteed commitment or otherwise required from the Trust Model other than what we are told by the Board. However, should one of the donors (let's remember that is all they are) go bust there is no way the Knights will see their money - guarantees or not. We become or (some might argue) remain a charity case. not donors, lenders. the Patrons Trust model is a windfall for the Knights if they ever need the extra capital. the current club structure stays in place, but there is a nice juicy safety net of funds to dip into if and when necessary.

My point is, put emotion aside and consider the facts and what will really make the club stronger. Everyone will have a different point of view on this.

My own opinion? We don't know exactly what we will get with Tinkler, but we know he has a strong regional conection, cares about the community, and (as Roopy put it), the ride will be exciting. As for the Board, we know what we will get, we have had years of it - boring mediocrity, poor decisions on and off the field and a baseline that will never see us win a premiership again. It's a gamble, but I'll take a punt on Tinkler any day over continued mediocrity. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

Pedge
i hope some of that helps, mate. good first post.
 

Pedge1971

First Grade
Messages
5,898
No worries. Agree the current admin has done much to sort out historical problems. That is their job and they (i.e. Burro - in fairness other board incl. Tew take an honourary possie) have been paid accordingly. But what are the go forward plans?

Are the revenue figures from official audited reports or just projections? When is our projected debt retirement under current admin?

What guarantees do we have for the sponsors to remain (granted several major sponsors would likely be lost in the proposed take over). These are all Q's that we need to get to bottom of.

Different admins have different skill sets. Some are great at bailing out of debt, some better at taking to the next level. What do we need to be competitive?

Do we want to continue to be mediocre? That's an alternative and we still have out team.........
 

slotmachine

First Grade
Messages
7,366
My own opinion? We don't know exactly what we will get with Tinkler, but we know he has a strong regional conection, cares about the community, and (as Roopy put it), the ride will be exciting. As for the Board, we know what we will get, we have had years of it - boring mediocrity, poor decisions on and off the field and a baseline that will never see us win a premiership again. It's a gamble, but I'll take a punt on Tinkler any day over continued mediocrity. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

Pedge

Bravo!
 

macavity

Referee
Messages
20,575
This is there backup option they think comes even close? Its not even a no strings attached donation like Burro was claiming earlier.

My understanding is the cash has to be paid back to the trust, which can then "loan" it for further Knights projects.

The cash is like a rolling reserve - effectively we become self-funding with a large, interest free line of credit.
 
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