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Paul Kent: NRL salary cap isn't working

Canard

Immortal
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35,614
Maybe a transfer fee should come into play. We need the clubs to produce juniors to do so but they should get something out of it

- Transfer fees can't be enforced "out of contract" i.e. once the contract period expires
- We already have transfer fees, clubs like the Warriors have paid monies for Tomkins to transfer for example
- With competition like Union, it wouldn't always be enforceable anyway.
 

Craig Johnston

First Grade
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5,396
- Transfer fees can't be enforced "out of contract" i.e. once the contract period expires
- We already have transfer fees, clubs like the Warriors have paid monies for Tomkins to transfer for example
- With competition like Union, it wouldn't always be enforceable anyway.

That's not correct, football in England (English FA) recognises the work that a club invests in bringing young players through, and if poached by another club whilst out of contract they can still get a payment to them judged by their sports tribunal. No reason why the nrl couldn't implement such a system
 
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15,484
That's not correct, football in England (English FA) recognises the work that a club invests in bringing young players through, and if poached by another club whilst out of contract they can still get a payment to them judged by their sports tribunal. No reason why the nrl couldn't implement such a system

I suggest you go and read the case of Buckley v Tutty from 1971 in the High Court. It rules out transfer fees. You can get a summary on the ACCC's website about it here - http://www.australiancompetitionlaw.org/cases/buckley.html

If you want to read the full wording of the judgement, there is a link to it at the bottom of the page on the ACCC's page which I gave the link for.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
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33,546
Yeah something like that. TBH I have no idea what the answer is it will take better minds than mine to work it out but transfer fees could be it. Like you said we need clubs investing in those kids and you cant stop clubs from signing kids from outside their area, I mean we have the biggest nursery in the world and even we have signed kids from qld, NZ, Dubbo, NT off the top of my head.

Exactly we struggle to get local halves for starters. We need these clubs producing players regardless of where they end up
 

Craig Johnston

First Grade
Messages
5,396
I suggest you go and read the case of Buckley v Tutty from 1971 in the High Court. It rules out transfer fees. You can get a summary on the ACCC's website about it here - http://www.australiancompetitionlaw.org/cases/buckley.html

If you want to read the full wording of the judgement, there is a link to it at the bottom of the page on the ACCC's page which I gave the link for.

yeah and in european football they support this similarly via the johnny bosman ruling....i'm talking specifically about juniors who are not yet professional
 

Craig Johnston

First Grade
Messages
5,396
$2.5 million out, against how much in? Thats the key.

Gould has claimed in another article this year that Panthers have about 9000 registered players. That averages out at around $277 in expenditure per registered player. How much are registration fees these days? All the sooks that ring the various radio shows at the start of the year complain that it costs a bomb

what's the average junior rego out there? about $150 max? going by your 9000 figure thats 1.35mill, and a large chunk of that will cover player uniform and insurance, not counting all the indirect costs such as match officials and administration costs of getting matches together. so to invest 2.5 over and above that is definitively nothing to sneeze at.

not having to invest that = ALOT of money that can go towards scouting and once off sign on payments that wont' go under a u20's cap.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
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69,865
Maybe leagues clubs just need to be more altruistic and be proud they are developing players for the nrl rather than a specific club? If the nrl funded u16, u18 and u20 elite rep teams in the relevant q'land and nsw comps then there can be no whinging about investments by nrl clubs being wasted. Before u16 it's just about getting kids playing sport really.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
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69,865
what's the average junior rego out there? about $150 max? going by your 9000 figure thats 1.35mill, and a large chunk of that will cover player uniform and insurance, not counting all the indirect costs such as match officials and administration costs of getting matches together. so to invest 2.5 over and above that is definitively nothing to sneeze at.

not having to invest that = ALOT of money that can go towards scouting and once off sign on payments that wont' go under a u20's cap.

Again you have to look at the justification for why leagues clubs exist and are seen as a "community commodity". That $2.5mill is from pokie machine revenue and is supposed to be for funding jnr sport in the community. Pull all the jnr sport funding out of leagues clubs expenditure and see how keen the nsw govt is to give tax concessions and pokie licenses to these clubs. There are plenty of non nrl aligned league clubs around funding jnr sport to an equal amount or more. Really that is what they should be doing, nrl elite jnr and player development and nrl club operational costs should be the responsibility of the nrl/ nrl club not the leagues club imo. Afl are doing it with Auskick amongst other programs.
 

Craig Johnston

First Grade
Messages
5,396
Again you have to look at the justification for why leagues clubs exist and are seen as a "community commodity". That $2.5mill is from pokie machine revenue and is supposed to be for funding jnr sport in the community. Pull all the jnr sport funding out of leagues clubs expenditure and see how keen the nsw govt is to give tax concessions and pokie licenses to these clubs. There are plenty of non nrl aligned league clubs around funding jnr sport to an equal amount or more. Really that is what they should be doing, nrl elite jnr and player development and nrl club operational costs should be the responsibility of the nrl/ nrl club not the leagues club imo. Afl are doing it with Auskick amongst other programs.

so the only way to centralise the responsibility is via a draft which i don't believe in (simply because I can't stand tanking).

in the meantime, the clubs wear that responsibility against the gafyl, particular those in the cold front out west.
 

Stagger Lee

Bench
Messages
4,931
I suggest you go and read the case of Buckley v Tutty from 1971 in the High Court. It rules out transfer fees. You can get a summary on the ACCC's website about it here - http://www.australiancompetitionlaw.org/cases/buckley.html

If you want to read the full wording of the judgement, there is a link to it at the bottom of the page on the ACCC's page which I gave the link for.

Thanks for that link Apollo

It was an interesting read, even the appeal - though some of that was very hard to understand! :)
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Maybe leagues clubs just need to be more altruistic and be proud they are developing players for the nrl rather than a specific club? If the nrl funded u16, u18 and u20 elite rep teams in the relevant q'land and nsw comps then there can be no whinging about investments by nrl clubs being wasted. Before u16 it's just about getting kids playing sport really.

Lets put this into theory.

What happens if a club wanted to play a player in a higher grade or didn't want them altogether? If the clubs aren't playing them can they play with the Clubs contracted NSW Cup or NRL squad?

It's not broke now why change it.
 

Edwahu

Bench
Messages
3,697
I think so. Canberra, Newcastle us all get 1st choice of the kids if they aren't seen as good enough to be locked up long term or aren't seen as good enough they then become poached by the rich clubs

I'll take a couple of million more to spend on players instead, thanks.
 
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15,484
The following was published on the Sydney Morning Herald's website yesterday -

Why the salary cap is vital for the success of the NRL

Date: April 1, 2015


Steve Mascord

Rugby league columnist


DISCORD
1427853119519.jpg
Outgunned: The Raiders feel the pain against the Roosters at the weekend. Photo: Getty Images


Success must absolutely be punished. Let's just start from right there.

It's a great strength of rugby league in Australia that the vast majority of fans see the sport through the prism of their clubs. The game has been so dominant in NSW and Queensland, almost since its beginnings, that there has been no need to have a broader perspective.

A few people – even the most populist commentators – are starting to look at the sport as a whole now, however. Other games are encroaching on rugby league's turf, horizons are belatedly broadening.

But cheering for the salary cap is like cheering for the highway patrol. There's no mileage in doing it.

So when we get commentary about the salary cap, we hear thoughts along the lines of "we need to have more one-club players" and "we need to have more concessions for long-term stars" and "if you have sponsors willing to give players money, or guarantee Third Party Agreements, let them".
And then there's the old favourite, "you shouldn't be punished for success" . And everyone cheers – "right on!"

The NRL can't come out and say these things – particularly the new NRL, who are seen as "Johnny come-latelys" (apparently 'Johnny' has been used as a substitute for 'fellow' or 'chap' since the 17th century. There was no unpunctual Johnny) – so I will.

If you win a premiership, you shouldn't start complaining about losing your players and being systematically dismantled for another 15 years! That's when it's your turn again - and everything else is just emotion, hyperbole and a response to cyclical, predictable pressure.

If you've won a competition, like St George Illawarra did just five years ago, you've got two and a half more years of a scenic walk down the summit before you start the ascent again. That's as it should be.

The NRL is in the business of serving up a spectacle for television and spectators each week, the result of which is uncertain. It is in their interests – and in the interests of the sport and of me as someone who doesn't support any particular club – for your team to be torn apart when you win a competition.

People will lose their jobs - many people. Players will come and go. Sponsors and fans will be lost, won, lost again…. That's as it should be.

What has happened in recent years is that the cap has gone up very suddenly, and very steeply, and teams have held onto players they would otherwise have been forced to release. What you get as a result of that (and other factors, admittedly) are disparate line-ups like the Sydney Roosters and Canberra on Sunday, results which nudge in the direction of forgone conclusions and contests which do nothing to enhance the competition.

What you get with more and more salary cap concessions is big city clubs with a coterie of rich sponsors being able to hold on to players that others have to release.

As for being a one-club player – if you are an outstanding player like Darren Lockyer or Nathan Hindmarsh, you are retained if you are earning your keep.

But if you're in decline, the club will take advantage of concessions to hold on to you outside the cap and use the money they were spending on you to put in the pockets of teammates who would otherwise have left to strengthen a weaker club.

More inequality.

The same goes for the "marquee player" idea – it's how you use the money you WOULD HAVE spent on the megastar that means it's just another way of circumventing the cap, holding onto players you would otherwise have lost and giving us a lopsided competition.

I'm against it. Inwardly socialist, outwardly capitalist – that's the way to success for professional sports in a limited market like ours, where suburbs are supposed to compete with cities, states and a country.

If you can brave all the forces trying to tear your team apart (and which do, hello Sam Burgess) and maintain the same level of competitiveness or get even better – that's where true greatness lies.
 

Spanner in the works

First Grade
Messages
6,082
z


Is this going to be a problem for the NRL when it comes to retaining players, particularly with record low interest rates, the end of the mining boom, next to no real wage growth, and (unexpectedly) weak economic growth? Can't see a recovery in the dollar anytime soon (15 per cent+), which would seem to be a good thing if you're a Super League club. You could sign a lot of player for a lot less than it would normally cost...
 
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Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,865
Salary cap difference will save the nrl. Probably see more mid level players move to sl again like 7 years ago.
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,614
z


Is this going to be a problem for the NRL when it comes to retaining players, particularly with record low interest rates, the end of the mining boom, next to no real wage growth, and (unexpectedly) weak economic growth? Can't see a recovery in the dollar anytime soon (15 per cent+), which would seem to be a good thing if you're a Super League club. You could sign a lot of player for a lot less than it would normally cost...


Thing is those 2011 to 2014 conversion rates weren't normal.

The pound is still relatively weak. It's historically been $2.50 To 3.

But currency conversion isn't really the main issue, with the crackdown on tax avoidance schemes the UK isn't as attractive anymore.
 

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