Penalty Blitz

[M2D2]

what are you a Red Sox fan?

 

[SBD82]

Considering most people who have been for the penalties have said either
They want less interchanges and a return to an old version of football where Fatigue comes into play.
Dont really think im assuming anything.
But you do you.

Thanks. I will. You do you too, even if that means crying for two days when your team was legitimately penalised (with the exception of Lewis) for breaking rules.

 

[M2D2]

Thanks. I will. You do you too, even if that means crying for two days when your team was legitimately penalised (with the exception of Lewis) for breaking rules.

Funnily enough. As far as cronulla goes, the only one i had issue with was Lewis, we were offside every time Brails couldnt time his run if hes life depended on it.

 

[SBD82]

Funnily enough. As far as cronulla goes, the only one i had issue with was Lewis, we were offside every time Brails couldnt time his run if hes life depended on it.

This is some weird logic.

How can you blame the refs then admit that your own team earned their penalties by infringing on the rules?

 

[M2D2]

This is some weird logic.

How can you blame the refs then admit that your own team earned their penalties by infringing on the rules?

1. Dont like the change of the rule to you MUST hit it with the foot from the rule of attempt which has been the rule for decades.
2. Dont like the change back to 10 meters from 12 which allowed leeway, and enabled a better peripheral view for the refs allowing the main ref to look at the play AND the line at the same time.
3. There was so many ruck wrestle penalties let go with melbourne holding down that makes the idea they are doing this to remove alot of peoples pet peeve on the state of the game hollow as an egg you may have received this morning.

The best way to describe my outlook, i would prefer consistency in calls, rather than continuous calls and my biggest issues are Dummy half forward passes and the wrestle, both of which have taken a back seat to the playing of the ball and the 10 meters.

 

[OldPanther]

Disagree with all these points.
1. Foot play the balls = Slower rucks
2. less interchange = more fatigue = more penalties
and there will still be 20-30 minutes players to think otherwise is just delusion at its finest
3. decent halves are not coming back, and making the forwards suffer to be 80 minute players will drive the quality down
4. they arent even targeting the wrestle so the whole "the wrestle will be gone" argument holds no water.
5. Yeah i know what i want to see in the final 20 minutes. Tired players making errors and penalties. f**k YEAH! That will bring the fans back.

Oh great. The horrible set plays from the 80's hiding where the ball was. Oh ive waited for decades for that to come back.

This year in the pre season Fox sports played heaps of 'classic' matches for teams from the 80's and 90's and beyond finals matches, they were all shit, so f**king shit.
No wonder people here want a return to that time. They cant see the fact that era of the game wasnt all that great.

and to think some of you took offense when i said you guys want the game to die.
Its pretty clear you guys do.

Even the guy sitting next to me game in game out is for all these penalties. Cant see that doing this is ruining the game. Doesnt care cause he hates "the wrestle".

Games were uglier, less dynamic and boring one man out hit ups for 95% of the game and hide the ball obstruction plays that will be called obstruction today.
It wasnt faster, it was slower, honestly, do NONE of you ever go back and watch old games? The game was not faster in the 80's and 90's pre super league. It was a slower ploddathon. Ugly shit.
The only thing they ever did wrong was take away the benefit of a good tackle around the legs.

Cant change anyones rose coloured glasses opinion.

All we've heard in recent years is a growing chorus of "the refs are ruining the game" so they're trying to do something about the criticism and all you've got is to argue for keeping things the same. At least people here and the NRL are offering solutions.

You guys complained about the flow of the game so we said fine reduce the interchange so attacking players get a bit of a go and you shot that down.

 

[SBD82]

1. Dont like the change of the rule to you MUST hit it with the foot from the rule of attempt which has been the rule for decades.
2. Dont like the change back to 10 meters from 12 which allowed leeway, and enabled a better peripheral view for the refs allowing the main ref to look at the play AND the line at the same time.
3. There was so many ruck wrestle penalties let go with melbourne holding down that makes the idea they are doing this to remove alot of peoples pet peeve on the state of the game hollow as an egg you may have received this morning.

The best way to describe my outlook, i would prefer consistency in calls, rather than continuous calls and my biggest issues are Dummy half forward passes and the wrestle, both of which have taken a back seat to the playing of the ball and the 10 meters.

I think that the best way for the game to create consistency is through specificity in the writing of the rules, and the enforcement of them to the letter.

I don't see that the referees contribute any value when they coach the players or "manage" the game. This is the root of inconsistency as I see it. You are building in discretion, which, by definition, is inconsistent.

While the ruck doesn't seem to be the focus, last week I saw Cam smith pinged for a forward pass. I literally can't remember the last time I saw that happen, despite him throwing forward passes every game that I've ever watched with him in it.

 

[OldPanther]

Funnily enough. As far as cronulla goes, the only one i had issue with was Lewis, we were offside every time Brails couldnt time his run if hes life depended on it.

I wish the MRC had a charge for what Billy did. That was a dog move.

 

[M2D2]

All we've heard in recent years is a growing chorus of "the refs are ruining the game" so they're trying to do something about the criticism and all you've got is to argue for keeping things the same. At least people here and the NRL are offering solutions.

You guys complained about the flow of the game so we said fine reduce the interchange so attacking players get a bit of a go and you shot that down.

Because Refs are ruining the game and their reaction is to blow the whistle more and give them more power. Great plan.
Reducing the interchange is an idea given my people who dont remember how bad the game was in the 80's and early 90's with limited interchanges. While i dont see eye to eye with cliff on alot of things early 2000's was the best of the best. It had alot of interchanges, dynamic play from halves, less bullshit attrition and on the line penalty due to it.

I think that the best way for the game to create consistency is through specificity in the writing of the rules, and the enforcement of them to the letter.

I don't see that the referees contribute any value when they coach the players or "manage" the game. This is the root of inconsistency as I see it. You are building in discretion, which, by definition, is inconsistent.

While the ruck doesn't seem to be the focus, last week I saw Cam smith pinged for a forward pass. I literally can't remember the last time I saw that happen, despite him throwing forward passes every game that I've ever watched with him in it.

Im not a big fan of that TBH, mainly because even this year with the change of rules, they havent even gotten close to consistent.
I actually liked the management of the game, i liked the warning system, maybe because when i was playing in the 90's all the way through if your number got called you knew you were offside and you could make a choice, now tough shit, less a fan of that.
Did like the ONE forward pass call, however there were so many let go, and only 7 of the 33 penalties called were for ruck stuff.
I feel the penalties are coming from the wrong areas.

 

[OldPanther]

Because Refs are ruining the game and their reaction is to blow the whistle more and give them more power. Great plan.
Reducing the interchange is an idea given my people who dont remember how bad the game was in the 80's and early 90's with limited interchanges. While i dont see eye to eye with cliff on alot of things early 2000's was the best of the best. It had alot of interchanges, dynamic play from halves, less bullshit attrition and on the line penalty due to it.

Im not a big fan of that TBH, mainly because even this year with the change of rules, they havent even gotten close to consistent.
I actually liked the management of the game, i liked the warning system, maybe because when i was playing in the 90's all the way through if your number got called you knew you were offside and you could make a choice, now tough shit, less a fan of that.
Did like the ONE forward pass call, however there were so many let go, and only 7 of the 33 penalties called were for ruck stuff.
I feel the penalties are coming from the wrong areas.

I agree with both of you about the early 2000s. No idea how to get that back though. Would have to police the wrestle somehow first and foremost to stop the rediculous slow ruck speed which leads to the defence being able to set so effectively especially with the elite athletes we have now.

 

[M2D2]

I agree with both of you about the early 2000s. No idea how to get that back though. Would have to police the wrestle somehow first and foremost to stop the rediculous slow ruck speed which leads to the defence being able to set so effectively especially with the elite athletes we have now.

I honestly dont know how going forward pinging 10 meters so harshly is supposed to help get rid of the wrestle. I mean to me, wont it just make people hold on longer because they are more likely get pinged for 10 meters than holding down too long.
Good luck to the NRL on that.

 

[OldPanther]

I honestly dont know how going forward pinging 10 meters so harshly is supposed to help get rid of the wrestle. I mean to me, wont it just make people hold on longer because they are more likely get pinged for 10 meters than holding down too long.
Good luck to the NRL on that.

The two aren't related in my opinion. I was just agreeing with the point you made and admitting I have no idea how to achieve it.

 

[T-Boon]

Gal was just talking saying the refs should have discretion on the 10metre penalties.
Basically saying if the players are offside but have had no influence i.e. the ball hasn't gone anywhere near them then they should not blow the penalty. Gal and Joey need to get with the program and the times on what passive offside is. If you are lining up or advantancing from an offside position then you have had an influence on the decision making from the ruck. You are only passive offside if you are offside but on the way back to getting onside, i.e. retreating.
Looking at the replay of the Roosters v Warriors the penalties for this were blatant and they were deliberately offside.
They either need to use the bin and/or allow quick taps which would address this fatigue thing and/or restart from a drop out after a penalty goal is kicked.

 

[M2D2]

The two aren't related in my opinion. I was just agreeing with the point you made and admitting I have no idea how to achieve it.

You didnt think the wrestle and the hold down was to to get players back behind the 10 for a solid line of defense?
You ping the 10 so harshly, its not going to get people off quick for a good ruck speed.
To me alot of the problem is that foot + 10 meters is doing the exact opposite to clearing the ruck faster.

 

[OldPanther]

You didnt think the wrestle and the hold down was to to get players back behind the 10 for a solid line of defense?
You ping the 10 so harshly, its not going to get people off quick for a good ruck speed.
To me alot of the problem is that foot + 10 meters is doing the exact opposite to clearing the ruck faster.

The reason they are calling those is because so many people complained about them. Not to speed the game up.

The game will get better relative to the start of this year as the teams get a handle on things.

I agree with you that the wrestle slows the game but don't know how they'd fix that.

 

[T-Boon]

You didnt think the wrestle and the hold down was to to get players back behind the 10 for a solid line of defense?
You ping the 10 so harshly, its not going to get people off quick for a good ruck speed.
To me alot of the problem is that foot + 10 meters is doing the exact opposite to clearing the ruck faster.

It doesnt fix the wrestling but it isn't as if wrestling is the only problem in the game. I didn't even know this offside on the try line was a thing until they started penalising it. Now that I know about it I am glad they are cracking down on it. Lets get harder on it, get rid of it then move on to the wrestle and DH forward passes.

 

[M2D2]

It doesnt fix the wrestling but it isn't as if wrestling is the only problem in the game. I didn't even know this offside on the try line was a thing until they started penalising it. Now that I know about it I am glad they are cracking down on it. Lets get harder on it, get rid of it then move on to the wrestle and DH forward passes.

I noticed the offside on the tryline for years. That and the backchat is one that i just cant believe that its gone on for so long and its entirely on the players. Its not hard to have a foot on the line as you arent going back the 10 (or 12) and you dont need to backchat the refs, especially when you have the ball.

 

[T-Boon]

I noticed the offside on the tryline for years. That and the backchat is one that i just cant believe that its gone on for so long and its entirely on the players. Its not hard to have a foot on the line as you arent going back the 10 (or 12) and you dont need to backchat the refs, especially when you have the ball.

so whats the issue?

 

[M2D2]

so whats the issue?

Less the off the line off sides. But the hardassness of the 10 in that game and the play the ball stuff.
In the game at the moment. They have gone back to the 12, they have been calling out players who are off or not square and theres been less offside calls and weve had a free flowing game.

 

[rupertpupkin]

I honestly dont know how going forward pinging 10 meters so harshly is supposed to help get rid of the wrestle. I mean to me, wont it just make people hold on longer because they are more likely get pinged for 10 meters than holding down too long.
Good luck to the NRL on that.

Valid point. It was the 10 that indirectly led to the wrestle and holding down (as well as unrealistic demands for faster PTB's).. Arguments for or against the 10 aside, there are 2 avenues that could work, without attempting to outlaw the practice. Make it less rewarding energy wise to do it- eliminate the interchange... and offer an alternative- more leeway/time to solo (and possibly 2 man) quick grounding tackles. It's not going to lead to constant fast PTB's, will increase game fatigue and mean no interchange (which I know you hate), but this defensive blight is not going to be cured without such measures. You can't really introduce new rules to outlaw it, as it's not illegal play, just boring and over used. I understand where you're coming from and you have an argument. I just think turning back the clock is better than introducing new rule patches to cover other new rule patches. It's how we got here.