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Penrith v Souths semi final

T

TheRiff

Juniors
Messages
286
pantherz9103 said:
It's a fair question but the situations are quite different. Under Anthony Griffin, we never really looked like winning a competition and were miles behind the Storm and the Roosters. Under Cleary we are giving ourselves the best possible chance with our regular season results but due to various reasons our form is not as slick as it was pre origin and we still haven't been able to recapture top form despite getting most of our players back. Ivan will cop a lot of blame if we don't win the comp again but he has too much credit in the bank with losing just 5 games in 2 seasons so his job is very safe. If we drop our standards and start losing more games next year then that might change though.
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We peaked about Round 18 last season, Peaked at the 1st Roosters game this year. We got very lucky in the Finals we won last year and we just as bad next time, Very close to that same outcome.

Gus wanted Bennett, Would we of gone any worse in comp games, under him?
 
K

kyussian

Juniors
Messages
33
some thoughts after letting the intensity of the disappointment settle overnight:

- that's the flattest we've looked in recent memory. unsure if we were complacent from the hype & thought we could just go through the motions/pace ourselves, were heavily fatigued or (heaven forbid!) had stagefright due to the weight of expectations, but if they were not up for making a statement for this game with a week off as the immediate reward, then perhaps we do need the motivation of sudden death to get the best out of us.

- our usual fitness & ability to 'run over the top of them in the second half' didnt materialise so all this talk from the so-called experts saying we've timed our run perfectly to peak in the finals is looking laughable now

- our forwards got owned last night. Full credit to the bunnies with Arrow, Sua & especially Turgess all stepping up to dominate. losing three middle forwards in the offseason has come back to bite us at seasons end. it's clear that Fish is currently struggling & he's had a massive workload & the loss of Sorensen & Leota & lack of evolution of Leniu has meant our middle is diminishing fast. The signs have been there for a while now.

- our kicking game was impotent & we couldnt capitalise on their two uncharacteristic long kick drops which was disappointing. We lost our patience & never really got the chance to heap pressure through repeat sets. It was strange that we lacked our usual composure & cohesion. That Luai kick on the first set was baffling but figure it was to let the bunnies know that there would be other kickers to take away the pressure from Nathan. I have to agree that I think we lost it mentally before the game with all the antics.

- it's clear Ivan doesnt want Naden around. is this because of his indiscretion last year & doesnt want to reward him again? surely he'd be a better wing option if Staines wasnt going to be fullback?

- i wonder if the coaching staff were looking too far ahead & expecting to have the week off to give the team a rest. now that's backfired so we'll need to carry all niggles moving forward. No need to mention again but not taking the opportunity to rest players for a meaningless last round game will either make or break our season. I would've rested Martin & Capewell (who both look cooked!) & given more time to Tago & Leniu who ironically now may need to be called upon. Hindsight has proven once again to be the master of everything!

- prior to the game i was telling my young bloke "all i want is 3 more wins for this season. That's not a lot to ask!". The good news is that it's still technically achievable, however I now realise my mistake - I should've just said "I dont want any more losses this season!". The young bloke starting to lose faith in his father's ability to spin positivity through wishes!

- the biggest disappointment for me was the hope created to finally have a team be clinical & ruthless in a final's campaign. Send a message to the rest of the competition that we're the big dogs. The opposite happened & we're all trying to process wtf just happened. If the burn of last years GF doesnt motivate them then nothing will. I think a lot of us were angry last night. Let's just hope the boys are too & this is exactly the loss we needed to bring back that fire from earlier in the season. I back them all way.
 
pantherz9103

pantherz9103

First Grade
Messages
9,617
To say Cleary can't win a premiership because he's not a 'supercoach' isn't exactly accurate. Some pretty ordinary coaches have won premierships. Such as Michael Hagan at Newcastle and to be honest Paul Green isn't that great either and he won with the Cowboys.
 
J

John Hamblin

Juniors
Messages
971
Just watched a full replay

Souths forwards tackled really well
Souths were marginally the better team
I have no issues with the referee
Luai needs to find his running game
I don't accept the over the top rubbishing of Charlie Staines. He will put on 4/5 kg of muscle and be a star next year
Huth's hit ups were terrible
Critta could be an absolute star at fullback and should start there next year
I don't think Edwards would have scored from the Yeo break. There was plenty of Souths players covering
Edwards might start at wing next year
Next year IC needs to give Spencer more game time. He has enormous potential.
Our forwards were a bit off. leota will make a difference / Hopefully he is OK to play next week.
We made enough breaks/ half breaks to win the game. Sometimes it doesn't happen.
I am looking forward to seeing more of Taylan May & Tago next year
We will start favourites to beat the Eels next week and win by 8!
 
T

The Realist

Juniors
Messages
1,880
Vicpanther said:
Would have 100% been on the inside for yeo after his break. So would have been level points atleast.
I like critta but he is a centre and is best suited to that. Great emergency fullback but the workload is a bit much for him I think.
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Delusional if you think it is 100%. probably a 60/40. As a team we are not that good at backing up our breaks even with Edwards in the team.

Yes he is our best support player, but he isn't particularly great at it when compared to others in the NRL.
Yeah he is better that Critta, but give Crichton a pre-season training at fullback and he could be very good, maybe better than Edwards. We just don't know and likely never will.

For the record, from what I have seen I don't think Crichton is a long term solution at FB either. This was for Ivan to figure out and I honestly think he has fluffed it. He is sentimental towards Edwards - if he was cold and calculated like Bellamy - he'd have planned to punt Edwards aside and offered Burton the Fullback slot from 2022 onwards.

Then again if Bellamy was his coach he either would have turned him into a better player or punted him already. Imagine if Edwards was in the Storm squad....he wouldn't even get a game. Papenhuyzen and Hynes are miles ahead of him.

Just remember that during the end of the 2020 season even Ivan signaled his uncertainty over Edwards' ability. He regularly had May play the fullback link role in attack where Edwards would effectively slot in at centre.

I don't disagree that we would have been better off with Edwards last night, we likely would have due to shifting Staines out and Critta on the wing. Just calling our the delusion of Edwards being a certainty back up.
 
T

The Realist

Juniors
Messages
1,880
DinkyDi said:
Then do not read it, it is that simple.
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What a dumb comment. I would need to read something in order to determine whether I should read it or not. Have you even thought that through?

I was just calling out the bullshit that Edwards is some sort of near certainty to back up and score - when I have seen more than a handful of breaks down the middle NOT being back up by him when he was playing.

The only thing that can be said that is Reasonable is that Edwards is more likely and I wouldn't disagree with that.
 
T

The Realist

Juniors
Messages
1,880
billypilgrimnz said:
As much as I think Cleary is a very one-dimensional coach, I wouldn't sack him (well, I wouldn't sack him on this one loss anyway, but still...) because there is no-one compelling to replace him with. Toovey has been out of the game too long, Bennett is too old and I want someone for the long term, etc. Our best bet is to try to "raise" a coach ourselves in the same way that we try to focus on developing juniors. Ciraldo may or may not be that. The club would know better than us on that score.
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Everyone seems to be forgetting Flanagan. I think he is an excellent coach. He would take our roster to the next level.
 
D

DinkyDi

Juniors
Messages
2,212
The Realist said:
What a dumb comment. I would need to read something in order to determine whether I should read it or not. Have you even thought that through?

I was just calling out the bullshit that Edwards is some sort of near certainty to back up and score - when I have seen more than a handful of breaks down the middle NOT being back up by him when he was playing.

The only thing that can be said that is Reasonable is that Edwards is more likely and I wouldn't disagree with that.
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Dumb comment is it? It is actually true, hey, be a Kevin for all I care.
 
G

Girds89

Bench
Messages
3,239
billypilgrimnz said:
This is just pure wishful thinking. There is zero evidence this will happen.
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Its been obvious he is a fb only. Some choose to think he can be an nrl quality winger.

Next year, realistically, if he doesnt get fb, i dont see him getting in the team. Taylan will be the other winger.
 
T

The Realist

Juniors
Messages
1,880
Girds89 said:
Its been obvious he is a fb only. Some choose to think he can be an nrl quality winger.

Next year, realistically, if he doesnt get fb, i dont see him getting in the team. Taylan will be the other winger.
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I like Taylan but I am worried about having 2 short wingers. I am hoping he'd make a decent centre. Then again I think Tago would make a damaging centre as well.

We have options next year even with Capewell, Burton and Naden going.
 
C

ColdWetPanther

Bench
Messages
4,307
martielang said:
Hard to disagree. I’m not a huge Staines fan but he actually made the right read for that play, he got bounced off cos we were back tracking. Martin half played for the penalty rather than covering the space which gave Gagai an extra half metre which he took.

Fish was really ordinary. South’s clearly made a point to batter him early. Surely on his 3rd hit up in a row when the entire Souths pack have come out of the line to smash him, the word comes out for a couple of short passes between the forwards to break South’s up. Instead we/he just kept running one off the ruck.
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It was weird. All season long one of our plays has been Yeo and Fish passing back towards the ruck to suck in defenders. None of that last night. Some of the few times we went straight behind the ruck with a bit of speed we had success and rolled through them.

Last night the game plan just seemed so ordinary and we were dominated. Need to go back to what we were doing previously.
 
C

ColdWetPanther

Bench
Messages
4,307
hindy111 said:
Penrith haven't had a good hit out for a while. They've not fielded there best side often and not against good opposition.
Its easy to forget how high an intensity is required if not played many of those matches.
Tamou was missed. He knows what it takes. When all is said and done it was 1 try loss. Edwards and Leota may of been enough to overturn the result. Means you face the Storm a week earlier. They will be fresh. But you had to face them at some point. And if won you'd go into Gran final as favourites for sure.
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99% agree with this (all except Tamou). Season is not over.
 
C

ColdWetPanther

Bench
Messages
4,307
tripster said:
Yeo and Martin not charged. Kikau copping a fine for dangerous contact.
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The fact Yeo isn’t charged is a joke. Not because I think it was a bad tackle or Yeo is a dirty player but because that tackle has been a suspension all year.

So there you go; Cleary’s presser did play a positive role at least in this respect.
 
Whino

Whino

Bench
Messages
3,392
pantherz9103 said:
To say Cleary can't win a premiership because he's not a 'supercoach' isn't exactly accurate. Some pretty ordinary coaches have won premierships. Such as Michael Hagan at Newcastle and to be honest Paul Green isn't that great either and he won with the Cowboys.
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Never caught the hype on Green. A lot of the work was done by Graham Murray and Neil Henry.
He came in as a breath of fresh air to win a premiership. Apart from a flukey run a few years ago, he did stuff all after the premiership.
 
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