Peter Beatte NRL 360 - expansion

[taipan]

Non of which excuses the nrl’s lack of vision, strategy or action for expansion. Oh I know let’s commission a report.

Obviously you didn't read what I stated. Comparing Gallop seeming commitments to Greenburger. The obliteration of future funds in 1995/6.The poor TV deals.The in depth work Greenburger has to do for the next 12 months or so to look into expansion.1/2 ownership only removed a few years ago.
You just want to shoot from the hip, and see what happens ala A league.The NRL might be dumb at times, but they "ain't " that silly.Look at ether fragility of the Titans(an expansion team in heartland) prior to them being privatised.
The NRL doesn't want to p*ss money up against the wall, they want results.Too much waste has occurred in the game in the past.

Your mob by joining SL a media setup, after flicking the ARL was hardly visionary.My mob did it for survival.

 

[Perth Red]

Obviously you didn't read what I stated. Comparing Gallop seeming commitments to Greenburger. The obliteration of future funds in 1995/6.The poor TV deals.The in depth work Greenburger has to do for the next 12 months or so to look into expansion.1/2 ownership only removed a few years ago.
You just want to shoot from the hip, and see what happens ala A league.The NRL might be dumb at times, but they "ain't " that silly.Look at ether fragility of the Titans(an expansion team in heartland) prior to them being privatised.
The NRL doesn't want to p*ss money up against the wall, they want results.Too much waste has occurred in the game in the past.

Your mob by joining SL a media setup, after flicking the ARL was hardly visionary.My mob did it for survival.

As did mine, the travel costs were killing us, we’d have been gone either way.

We’re 6 years into independent ownership and huge revenue, we should have a road map by now. What we have got is another 12 month stall and employment of some more of those consultants you love so much to produce another report. This is the third in last few years.

 

[ground zero]

Afl has the money to sink because ten years ago it had the vision then the strategy to set up its systems to make expansion viable and largely pay its own way. They didnt wait for tv to agree, they expanded then told tv they had more product and wanted more money for it, and got it, afl knows small cities can’t sustain $40million afl teams it’s not that stupid.

We just made a $46million surplus, expansion would cost around $30million. Maybe witha ninth game to sell we would have made a bigger surplus?

We have been procrastinating for over a decade and our latest stalling tactic is to commission a report. Reality is we have about 12-18months to lock in a commitment to expansion if we want 18 clubs by time next tv deal is negotiated in around 2 -3 years time. Relocation chatter is a smoke screen, nrl doesn’t have the balls,

Great endeavours don’t begin with a report, they begin with a vision, then a commitment then finding a way to make it work.

 

[ground zero]

Perth red wants the Nrl to spend all there profits on money pits expansion. how about spending there money on 1 or 2 western sydney stadiums around sydney 1st. own them all the profits belong to the nrl an the clubs. then when all the dollars are rolling in then expand

 

[taipan]

As did mine, the travel costs were killing us, we’d have been gone either way.

We’re 6 years into independent ownership and huge revenue, we should have a road map by now. What we have got is another 12 month stall and employment of some more of those consultants you love so much to produce another report. This is the third in last few years.

Your club should have been aware either by asking or being told, that travel and accommodation costs were at your expense then, and allowed for it.If you didn't cost in these extras, that is a club failing.

And during that 6 years we also had Smith as CEO, we had two clubs taken over by the NRL ,other clubs in financial trouble, players behaving like idiots off field,uncertainty about the TV layout at times with ch 10 in financial trouble, drop offs with the 13-18 age group numbers.We have less consultants than we had before.
You have never once conceded, the consultants we had before under Smith were overpaid and did virtually nothing. Your blind obsession with Smith, clouded your thinking.
One of the Board members( as part of his work) is consulting on investing NRL profits, we have a fully functioning Digital dept which appress to be profitable ,and an Integrity unit which is weeding out the clowns.At least we know what these guys are doing.

Also the code does more for the community than just about any other code herewith so many different causes.They also put a lot of money and time into that.And have won awards in this country for doing so.

Where was AFLs roadmap(which you laud) in Western Sydney?More like Sheedy pushing the issue,and the AFL just parachuted them in.Where was the demand for such a team?
The GC had a NRL team ,a few years later the AFL decided they'd have a team there.Reactionary?

Every code would ideally want teams in every state, sensible ones know there are ways to go about it, after the A League got burnt, the RU got burnt, and the AFL have poured confetti money into the Gnats and Sunburns and whilst it may help Tv revenue ,it has hardly got locals excited.How many times did the NBL chop and change clubs here?

I don't care how ,many reports are done ,situations change, economy,employment,TV revenue, sponsorship revenue, clubs financials.
I'm concerned about getting expansion done right and that it is a long term success.I don't want the NRL to have to put in millions upon millions to prop up Perth, should they go broke.They certainly aren't going to do it for Sydney clubs.

 

[Perth Red]

Perth red wants the Nrl to spend all there profits on money pits expansion. how about spending there money on 1 or 2 western sydney stadiums around sydney 1st. own them all the profits belong to the nrl an the clubs. then when all the dollars are rolling in then expand

Or we could expand and sell the ninth game that brings in two two key growth markets for more than the $30million it would cost?

 

[Perth Red]

Your club should have been aware either by asking or being told, that travel and accommodation costs were at your expense then, and allowed for it.If you didn't cost in these extras, that is a club failing.

And during that 6 years we also had Smith as CEO, we had two clubs taken over by the NRL ,other clubs in financial trouble, players behaving like idiots off field,uncertainty about the TV layout at times with ch 10 in financial trouble, drop offs with the 13-18 age group numbers.We have less consultants than we had before.
You have never once conceded, the consultants we had before under Smith were overpaid and did virtually nothing. Your blind obsession with Smith, clouded your thinking.
One of the Board members( as part of his work) is consulting on investing NRL profits, we have a fully functioning Digital dept which appress to be profitable ,and an Integrity unit which is weeding out the clowns.At least we know what these guys are doing.

Also the code does more for the community than just about any other code herewith so many different causes.They also put a lot of money and time into that.And have won awards in this country for doing so.

Where was AFLs roadmap(which you laud) in Western Sydney?More like Sheedy pushing the issue,and the AFL just parachuted them in.Where was the demand for such a team?
The GC had a NRL team ,a few years later the AFL decided they'd have a team there.Reactionary?

Every code would ideally want teams in every state, sensible ones know there are ways to go about it, after the A League got burnt, the RU got burnt, and the AFL have poured confetti money into the Gnats and Sunburns and whilst it may help Tv revenue ,it has hardly got locals excited.How many times did the NBL chop and change clubs here?

I don't care how ,many reports are done ,situations change, economy,employment,TV revenue, sponsorship revenue, clubs financials.
I'm concerned about getting expansion done right and that it is a long term success.I don't want the NRL to have to put in millions upon millions to prop up Perth, should they go broke.They certainly aren't going to do it for Sydney clubs.

No argument there, the WARL board were extremely optimistic in their business case planning. Maybe the sharks should have realised in the late 80’s they weren’t really big enough to be able to afford to be in the top level and dropped down a league as well?

AFL always had a plan for expansion, they knew they would cost them a Monza to go I to two markets not crying out for clubs. It’s why they have a varied club grant, they had rich club ticket tax and then the icing on the cake they had the extra content to sell for more than it is costing them. That’s visionary.

Meanwhile we will wait another 12 months for yet another report.

 

[taipan]

Or we could expand and sell the ninth game that brings in two two key growth markets for more than the $30million it would cost?

Sydney,Melbourne and Brisbane are growth markets.

 

[Perth Red]

Sydney,Melbourne and Brisbane are growth markets.

They are exposed markets, Brisbane under exposed I’d say. Meanwhile Australia’s 4th biggest city is ripe for growth with future regular exposure.

 

[taipan]

No argument there, the WARL board were extremely optimistic in their business case planning. Maybe the sharks should have realised in the late 80’s they weren’t really big enough to be able to afford to be in the top level and dropped down a league as well?

AFL always had a plan for expansion, they knew they would cost them a Monza to go I to two markets not crying out for clubs. It’s why they have a varied club grant, they had rich club ticket tax and then the icing on the cake they had the extra content to sell for more than it is costing them. That’s visionary.

Meanwhile we will wait another 12 months for yet another report.

They didn't have an expansion plan for GWS ,the GC was a reaction to the Tits doing well initially.In fact I suggest the stuff up with the Titan's C of Excellence ,the effect it had on local business and the tradies,,was a decent leg up for the AFL.
They expanded into heartland markets as part of their plans .
ACT was reactionary ,trying to kill two birds with one stone ,calling the team GWS.I didn't realise Canberra was an outer suburb of Sydney.
And citing the A league as you did earlier on, suggests you are grasping at straws.Union expanded and didn't have the quality players .

Thus I believe expansion into Brisbane 2nd side and NZ a 2nd side makes sense .Both areas into rugby league.Big junior base.
Your juniors( as Melbourne has few in numbers), could be a feeder for the Storm, and the Reds play in a State Cup.Aim for say 2033 for NRL entry.

LOL the Sharks got in the poo in 1983 .
From the Gibson years to 1990
1985 8th
1986 10th
1987 8th
1988 minor premiers
1989 6th
1990 10th.
Which means they were big enough to compete and be competitive also.More so than. a few other clubs have found.

Their situation now has been further strengthened, with their development deal and clearing of debts, money for a refurbished /rebuilt Leagues clubs Centre of Excellence via the State and Feds.A situation a few other clubs would like to be in.And their own ground.I understand it hurts.
All private boxes have been sold for 2019.

They also were, and still are among the biggest junior leagues in Sydney.They were among the first to establish and push for a Women's rl comp.

We won't have to wait 12 months for you to have another whinge.Set your egg timer by it.

 

[taipan]

They are exposed markets, Brisbane under exposed I’d say. Meanwhile Australia’s 4th biggest city is ripe for growth with future regular exposure.

Two of which are heartland and growing.Perth for the AFL is a heartland market, they still put two teams there and also Adelaide.And Melbourne the 2nd biggest city, which will outpace Sydney in the next few years, so a 2nd team there cannot be ruled out.
Gallop says fish where the fish are ,you know it makes sense.

 

[Perth Red]

They didn't have an expansion plan for GWS ,the GC was a reaction to the Tits doing well initially.In fact I suggest the stuff up with the Titan's C of Excellence ,the effect it had on local business and the tradies,,was a decent leg up for the AFL.
They expanded into heartland markets as part of their plans .
ACT was reactionary ,trying to kill two birds with one stone ,calling the team GWS.I didn't realise Canberra was an outer suburb of Sydney.
And citing the A league as you did earlier on, suggests you are grasping at straws.Union expanded and didn't have the quality players .

Thus I believe expansion into Brisbane 2nd side and NZ a 2nd side makes sense .Both areas into rugby league.Big junior base.
Your juniors( as Melbourne has few in numbers), could be a feeder for the Storm, and the Reds play in a State Cup.Aim for say 2033 for NRL entry.

LOL the Sharks got in the poo in 1983 .
From the Gibson years to 1990
1985 8th
1986 10th
1987 8th
1988 minor premiers
1989 6th
1990 10th.
Which means they were big enough to compete and be competitive also.More so than. a few other clubs have found.

Their situation now has been further strengthened, with their development deal and clearing of debts, money for a refurbished /rebuilt Leagues clubs Centre of Excellence via the State and Feds.A situation a few other clubs would like to be in.And their own ground.I understand it hurts.
All private boxes have been sold for 2019.

They also were, and still are among the biggest junior leagues in Sydney.They were among the first to establish and push for a Women's rl comp.

We won't have to wait 12 months for you to have another whinge.Set your egg timer by it.

All that success and by 1994 you were so broke you had to sht on the game and sign with SL? Seems mismanagement is part and parcel of the Cronulla DNA!

As storm and roosters continue to show, you don’t need massive jnr programs to win comps. Perth and Brisbane2 will be the next two teams in. Just hope I’m still alive to see it!

 

[taipan]

All that success and by 1994 you were so broke you had to sht on the game and sign with SL? Seems mismanagement is part and parcel of the Cronulla DNA!

As storm and roosters continue to show, you don’t need massive jnr programs to win comps. Perth and Brisbane2 will be the next two teams in. Just hope I’m still alive to see it!

Best decision we made ATT.Thank Peter Gow. We were a last resort by News Ltd ,and we knew it.We had crap management for years, have never suggested otherwise..

You had only been in for a short time yet, appears your management were just as crap, oooh didn't; realise we had to pay for travel and accommodation.It took a long time for you to admit it.new kid on the block and fluffed the accounts, hardly inspiring.

No, Storm just need a stack of Queenslanders for their roster, that's why having Perth as a feeder club's a great idea.Plus of course ex Red's players in the early days.Brisbane 2 is a shoe in,heartland with plenty of juniors.
Roosters have a major League's club, little juniors number, but they are in a heartland city , whilst Perth in non heartland.Interesting that the Roosters devote time on the CC for development.

 

[Perth Red]

Both clubs could see a bleak future and jumped for the cash. Our stupidity was in our set up agreement. Yours was in long term mismanagement. Nothing t choose between the shiteness of either club tbh.

Clubs without strong jnr bases work hard to pick up the young talent from other regions and developthem into nrl stars. We’ll be no different. If we have half the storms success in our first couple of decades I’ll be very happy,
ideally I’d love to see a link up with png and WA become a nrl pathway for the best png Jnrs and Hunters. Storm target Q’land and nz, roosters targeting CC. Pirates should link up with PNG and NZ. It’s disheartening to see one of our best Jnrs making his debut for the jnr wallabies this month and Curtis running around in super15. We need a local pathway for these kids to stay in nrl

 

[taipan]

Both clubs could see a bleak future and jumped for the cash. Our stupidity was in our set up agreement. Yours was in long term mismanagement. Nothing t choose between the shiteness of either club tbh.

Clubs without strong jnr bases work hard to pick up the young talent from other regions and developthem into nrl stars. We’ll be no different. If we have half the storms success in our first couple of decades I’ll be very happy,
ideally I’d love to see a link up with png and WA become a nrl pathway for the best png Jnrs and Hunters. Storm target Q’land and nz, roosters targeting CC. Pirates should link up with PNG and NZ. It’s disheartening to see one of our best Jnrs making his debut for the jnr wallabies this month and Curtis running around in super15. We need a local pathway for these kids to stay in nrl

There isn't a bleak future now for the Sharks.The Pirates have to do the hard yards instead.

 

[LeagueXIII]

Sharks are fine........just an easy target.

What would be the next club on the target list?

 

[The Great Dane]

Best decision we made ATT.Thank Peter Gow. We were a last resort by News Ltd ,and we knew it.We had crap management for years, have never suggested otherwise..

You had only been in for a short time yet, appears your management were just as crap, oooh didn't; realise we had to pay for travel and accommodation.It took a long time for you to admit it.new kid on the block and fluffed the accounts, hardly inspiring.

No, Storm just need a stack of Queenslanders for their roster, that's why having Perth as a feeder club's a great idea.Plus of course ex Red's players in the early days.Brisbane 2 is a shoe in,heartland with plenty of juniors.
Roosters have a major League's club, little juniors number, but they are in a heartland city , whilst Perth in non heartland.Interesting that the Roosters devote time on the CC for development.

That's an incredibly unfair characterisation of the Reds situation!

The NSWRL let them spend hundreds of thousands of dollars (it almost certainly would have been the equivalent of millions in today's money) in the expansion process under the assumption that they'd be treated the same as every other club, basically told them that they had a license, then sprung on them that they'd have to pay all the away teams travel costs if they wanted the license.

At that point the Reds figured that they'd already sunk a fortune into the bid all of which they'd lose if they pulled out so they may as well take the license and try to make it work instead of pissing all that money away cause the NSWRL jerked them around.

The long and short of it is that they did what 90% of people in their position would do in that situation (only those rich enough that they can afford to eat those sorts of losses would do any different), and they were only put in that position because the NSWRL unexpectedly changed the paradigm on them late in the expansion process after they had already invested a fortune into the bid under the assumption that they wouldn't be expected to fund every clubs trip to Perth.

 

[tri_colours]

Every cent of it would be gone, they would have had to have thrown it away to prop up the competition in the late 90s and early 00s after all the clubs that were on deaths door feel over Seagulls style and the ARL was forced to take a majority of them over (Chargers style) to meet the requirements of their contracts to broadcasters, caused largely by their (the ARL's) own mismanagement (and frankly arrogance).

marching into a massive crash all at the same time and though a lot of the blame can be laid at the clubs own feet for that (plenty of mismanagement was going on) a good part of that was the ARL's fault (they over extended themselves, set clubs up to fail by giving them impossible standards to meet, had different standards and rules for different clubs, and allowed clubs that weren't anywhere near sustainable into the comp).



So yeah SL or no SL the ARL was going to be broke pretty soon in the mid to late 90s...

You are so full of shit!

The NRL was every bit as strong as the AFL back then , arguably stronger and in better shape. The big difference was the SL war. It bled the NRL dry and we have been in catch up mode ever since.

The cash problems your talking about were caused by no other reason than the inflated prices used by News LTD to bring the NRL to its knees . If it wasn't for your mates at News Ltd We would have more than just 1 Brisbane side, a Perth team and probably others as well.

When you talk about mismanagement are you referring to what went on at Canberra? if so I would have to agree with you totally.

The NRL had never been in a stronger position than in the early 90's!

 

[The Great Dane]

You are so full of shit!

The NRL was every bit as strong as the AFL back then , arguably stronger and in better shape. The big difference was the SL war. It bled the NRL dry and we have been in catch up mode ever since.

The cash problems your talking about were caused by no other reason than the inflated prices used by News LTD to bring the NRL to its knees . If it wasn't for your mates at News Ltd We would have more than just 1 Brisbane side, a Perth team and probably others as well.

When you talk about mismanagement are you referring to what went on at Canberra? if so I would have to agree with you totally.

The NRL had never been in a stronger position than in the early 90's!

Why are you bringing up a post from six months ago completely out of context and then chopping it up to remove even more of the context?

Everything in that post is undeniable fact, and it's not clear what it is that you are taking issue with cause you're post above completely ignores the points that were being made... So yeah what exactly is you problem?

 

[tri_colours]

Why are you bringing up a post from six months ago completely out of context and then chopping it up to remove even more of the context?

Everything in that post is undeniable fact, and it's not clear what it is that you are taking issue with cause you're post above completely ignores the points that were being made... So yeah what exactly is you problem?

I didn't post in this section 6 months ago. Any rate isn't that how it works? you read posts and then you comment on them. I was unaware of any time limit? - or have you since changed your views ?

Regardless of your point of view , and what you overlooked and what you made up, I found it simply amazing how you could so clearly predict what was going to happen years into the future.

If the game was in such a parlous state why did News go after it so strongly? And if the teams where in such a far gone condition, as you make out then why would Murdoch want to build a PTV network around them? why not the AFL?