Peter Nolan

[Eels Dude]

we paid overs for Poore and how many games has he played and what impact has he had?

If Sandow tears his ACL in the pre season and doesn't play a game for 18 months then you could say the same thing. Hindsight is wonderful isn't it.

 

[parra-matters]

If Sandow tears his ACL in the pre season and doesn't play a game for 18 months then you could say the same thing. Hindsight is wonderful isn't it.

Regardless we still paid overs for him.

 

[Stagger eel]

Why does he need to look at stats? Cannot he identify talent from his own eyes? If he gets the sack i recommend Poupou to take over the role

Well, what's the point in having stats at all?? As far as I'm concerned watching the game which he probably does on a regular basis is just as important as keeping an electronic file of the player you're might be interested in, maybe have a look at a coach's sometime and you may be shocked to realise that every club has some guy behind a lap top entering shit!

 

[Eels Dude]

Regardless we still paid overs for him.

No regardless, if Sandow misses the entire 2012 season via injury we'll all be whinging about him being overpaid too because he hasn't played a game for us so what's the difference? If he's fit but plays like s**t all next year we'll all be saying we paid massive overs for him so what's the difference?

 

[parra-matters]

No regardless, if Sandow misses the entire 2012 season via injury we'll all be whinging about him being overpaid too because he hasn't played a game for us so what's the difference? If he's fit but plays like s**t all next year we'll all be saying we paid massive overs for him so what's the difference?

The difference is Poore was never worth that much, Petero or Shane Webcke may have been worth that but Poore is less than half the player those two are.

 

[Eels Dude]

Well, what's the point in having stats at all?? As far as I'm concerned watching the game which he probably does on a regular basis is just as important as keeping an electronic file of the player you're might be interested in, maybe have a look at a coach's sometime and you may be shocked to realise that every club has some guy behind a lap top entering shit!

I'm aware of it. I used to help out a mate at NRL games where it was his job. I just mean that shouldn't be used as an argument as to why someone would make a great recruitment coach. I'm sure Nolan knows his stuff I would think junior talent should be identified based on whether they could make it at NRL level as opposed to stats from schoolboy rugby league and junior reps.

 

[Maroubra Eel]

Well, what's the point in having stats at all?? As far as I'm concerned watching the game which he probably does on a regular basis is just as important as keeping an electronic file of the player you're might be interested in, maybe have a look at a coach's sometime and you may be shocked to realise that every club has some guy behind a lap top entering shit!

Spot on Stagger. Electronic files are the way of the future.

 

[Eels Dude]

The difference is Poore was never worth that much, Petero or Shane Webcke may have been worth that but Poore is less than half the player those two are.

Poore was the most high profile prop on the market. Keep in mind Fui already had an option with an ESL club he could was going to take up, Mannah was still a rookie, and Cayless was considering retiring a year early. It might have been overs but you have to pay overs for positions you need and at that stage in 2009 when we signed him we definately needed a prop and a good one. It just so happened that Fui stayed, Cayless stayed, and Mannah bloomed.

 

[Stagger eel]

I'm aware of it. I used to help out a mate at NRL games where it was his job. I just mean that shouldn't be used as an argument as to why someone would make a great recruitment coach. I'm sure Nolan knows his stuff I would think junior talent should be identified based on whether they could make it at NRL level as opposed to stats from schoolboy rugby league and junior reps.

well I didn't say that stats should be used as the only source of information to decide whether or not we should make a play for a particular player, it's a tool as much as it is watching his game and assessing his work ethic..

 

[oldmancraigy]

Why does he need to look at stats? Cannot he identify talent from his own eyes? If he gets the sack i recommend Poupou to take over the role

Sometimes your eyes can deceive.

Case in point is Tom Leahroyd Lahrs.

People always talk about how great he plays and how damaging a runner of the ball he is. Unfortunately a quick check of the stats shows that big Tom might have only run the ball 8 times - twice he made 15m, but the other 6 times he made a combined 12. And then he only chimed in 8 tackles to go along with it.

Or take Jamie Soward - some people will talk about him as a 'creative' player - but he put 2 blokes into a gap this whole season. His attack actually revolves around his ability to kick (long/short), organise and run himself. He's little to no danger of creating through the pass.

You gotta watch the games and check the stats to see if they back up what you're seeing if you plan on being anywhere near a halfway decent talent scout!

 

[Poupou Escobar]

No regardless, if Sandow misses the entire 2012 season via injury we'll all be whinging about him being overpaid too because he hasn't played a game for us so what's the difference?

The difference is Poore wasn't worth what we paid for him even when he did take the field. That's why Bennett didn't match our offer.

On top of that, we already had Cayless, Moimoi, Galuvao and Mannah on the books. Plus Shackleton was either already on his way or we were talking to him.

As for Tahu, we we had Burt, Reddy, Inu and Grothe. Signing another outside back was such a waste of cap space when we only had Kris Keating signed until the end of 2010.

The only good signing of those three was Shackleton, and only because he wasn't coming for big money.

In fact even Mortimer was a better signing than Poore and Tahu at the time because we needed halves. In hindsight we couldn't have seen Morts would turn to shit. We definitely should have seen Tahu and Poore were surplus to requirements.

If he's fit but plays like s**t all next year we'll all be saying we paid massive overs for him so what's the difference?

No we won't because we've needed a halfback for ten years. Sandow could play his worst ever season and be an improvement on what we've had to put up with year after year.

It's a position where we don't have a first grade quality player for Sandow to replace. Just like centre - that's why Willie Tonga is such a great signing.

But Poore - he was only going to push another first grader out of the team. Likewise Tahu. Waste of money. Very poor squad/salary cap management.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

It just so happened that Fui stayed, Cayless stayed, and Mannah bloomed.

See this is just an excuse. None of this (players staying or junior stars becoming first graders) should have come as a surprise to a quality coaching staff.

A good coach manages players (and their contracts) so they only stay or leave when the coach wants them to.

Likewise, we should have figured out long before he'd played half a season of first grade that Tim Mannah would be good enough to play 35 minutes off the bench every week. Then we don't make the mistake of signing a big money front-rower and then realising we could have done without him.

 

[caylo]

See this is just an excuse. None of this (players staying or junior stars becoming first graders) should have come as a surprise to a quality coaching staff.

A good coach manages players (and their contracts) so they only stay or leave when the coach wants them to.

Likewise, we should have figured out long before he'd played half a season of first grade that Tim Mannah would be good enough to play 35 minutes off the bench every week. Then we don't make the mistake of signing a big money front-rower and then realising we could have done without him.

This is true but who would have thought Allgood would have come along so well, it isn't like he was dominating like Mannah was. With Terepo coming through Poore is defiantly dispensable but I would keep him for 200K if he would stay for that, there is no was he will attract 350K unless he becomes super human next season.

With the arrival of Jamil Hoppa plus Brien and OHanlan coming through I doubt we will have to replace Hindy either. While I haven't seen Jamil play there has been comparisons to Gallen in his style and work rate and most people around here are aware of Briens and OHanlan's abilities. Good times ahead IMO, Nolan has very much laid the platform for the future in terms of the right players being targeted for both NRL and Jnr spots.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

This is true but who would have thought Allgood would have come along so well

I reckon as soon as they saw him in pre-season training and at the trials they would have known.

But really, the previous coaching staff should have known he was suitable for first grade just by looking at his physical characteristics and his attitude. Just because he didn't have the skills to dominate in NYC (where the style of footy makes certain types of players look better or worse than they are) doesn't mean he wasn't going to make it in first grade.

it isn't like he was dominating like Mannah was. With Terepo coming through Poore is defiantly dispensable but I would keep him for 200K if he would stay for that, there is no was he will attract 350K unless he becomes super human next season.

With the arrival of Jamil Hoppa plus Brien and OHanlan coming through I doubt we will have to replace Hindy either. While I haven't seen Jamil play there has been comparisons to Gallen in his style and work rate and most people around here are aware of Briens and OHanlan's abilities. Good times ahead IMO, Nolan has very much laid the platform for the future in terms of the right players being targeted for both NRL and Jnr spots.

It is very exciting. Especially because I can start giving a f**k about the NYC team next year.

 

[Eels Dude]

See this is just an excuse. None of this (players staying or junior stars becoming first graders) should have come as a surprise to a quality coaching staff.

A good coach manages players (and their contracts) so they only stay or leave when the coach wants them to.

Likewise, we should have figured out long before he'd played half a season of first grade that Tim Mannah would be good enough to play 35 minutes off the bench every week. Then we don't make the mistake of signing a big money front-rower and then realising we could have done without him.

You seem to think it's all up to the coach but it isn't. Sure he can have some persusion but there are so many other factors involved players consider when choosing what to do that you're ignoring.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

You seem to think it's all up to the coach but it isn't. Sure he can have some persusion but there are so many other factors involved players consider when choosing what to do that you're ignoring.

What I'm saying is the coach should have final say of the structure and timing of contracts to comply with his plans for the squad now and into the future.

And where he doesn't have that control (like getting players to sign, re-sign or accept termination) he should be able to use his management skills to get players to comply with his wishes. Like all the Eels players who either re-signed or retired this year, and all the non-Eels who signed with the club for 2013 and beyond.

 

[Eels Dude]

What I'm saying is the coach should have final say of the structure and timing of contracts to comply with his plans for the squad now and into the future.

And where he doesn't have that control (like getting players to sign, re-sign or accept termination) he should be able to use his management skills to get players to comply with his wishes. Like all the Eels players who either re-signed or retired this year, and all the non-Eels who signed with the club for 2013 and beyond.

I know what you're saying, I'm just saying it isn't just up to the coach contracts and negotiations are so complicated these days. A lot of the time in contract negotiations the player isn't even involved just their manager.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I know what you're saying, I'm just saying it isn't just up to the coach contracts and negotiations are so complicated these days. A lot of the time in contract negotiations the player isn't even involved just their manager.

That's beside the point; if they won't agree to a contract that fits inside the coach's plans for the squad then you don't sign them.

Likewise, if a player lets his manager influence discussions too much then the coach has to make a decision about whether that player (and his manager) are worth dealing with.

The point is, the coach is responsible for the performance of the team. That means that if a player (and manager) ends up holding the team to ransom - like with a huge player option on a contract - then the coach has no right to blame players who then disrupt recruitment/retention by unexpectedly exercising those contract options or not.

It's all about being accountable. You're right the coach doesn't have complete control but he is still responsible for any control he cedes to players and their managers.

The coach's first responsibility is for the contract he signs with the club, and the level of control afforded him within the dictates of that contract. Excuses are for politicians. Footy is business.

 

[lingard]

That's beside the point; if they won't agree to a contract that fits inside the coach's plans for the squad then you don't sign them.

Likewise, if a player lets his manager influence discussions too much then the coach has to make a decision about whether that player (and his manager) are worth dealing with.

The point is, the coach is responsible for the performance of the team. That means that if a player (and manager) ends up holding the team to ransom - like with a huge player option on a contract - then the coach has no right to blame players who then disrupt recruitment/retention by unexpectedly exercising those contract options or not.

It's all about being accountable. You're right the coach doesn't have complete control but he is still responsible for any control he cedes to players and their managers.

The coach's first responsibility is for the contract he signs with the club, and the level of control afforded him within the dictates of that contract. Excuses are for politicians. Footy is business.

And, unfortunately, none of us is privy to the details of our coach's contract. So, as it's always been, it's pure conjecture. Does the coach have sole say in recruitment and retention? Does he even have final say? None of us knows. So we'll never know who to blame. It's all Hagan's fault, it's all Anderson's fault, it's all Osborne's fault. The irony of the whole thing is that it's not Fitzgerald's fault anymore.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

My point is, if a coach gets the sack he's got no-one to blame but himself. Likewise if his team underperforms after his first season.