Peter V'landys - New NRL/ARLC Chairman

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

They also merged several Sydney teams and kicked out the Rabbitohs (temporarily).

Gold Coast were kicked out when they were profitable. The Sydney teams that merged or were given the boot were in a dire situation. Cronulla should have been booted.

Engagement length matters to all broadcasters.

If that were remotely true then cricket and golf would command the most money.

Im not sure you understand the game at all.

I've played the game and watched it religiously my whole life, so f**k off with your baseless jibes.

Do you even understand the rules and strategy of rugby league or do you just like to compare revenue and fan engagement between Australia's two largest sports?

Is there any actual anger though? Was Brisbane limited to one team by the ARL or by other forces as well?

Yes there is anger up here amongst some rugby league fans who miss the BRL. I explained to you measures put in place by the NSWRL and ARLC over the last 12 years that were intended to weaken and destroy the Queensland Cup. As some one who was an active member of Wynnum Manly I've seen the impact of it. Don't tell me it never happened. You've probably never even been to a Queensland Cup game.

How about you stop pretending to be an expert on something you know nothing about?

You wouldn't have a clue what it's like to be a Queensland rugby league fan as you're an Aussie rules fan from Victoria. The world down there is fixated on AFL and wouldn't cover the game thoroughly.

And on the Perth thing, he is correct to be irritated.

No. They attack him because hes constantly running the game down and supposedly an NRL fan.

What he says is right and based on decades of experience as a committed rugby league fan, which is something you're not. You're just sucking up to the NSWRL fans because you see this as an opportunity to get on their good side.

Do they really? I havent seen them express that.

Then maybe you should look at more than a few posts about ratings and V'landys. Storm are the most hated club in Sydney alongside the Broncos.

Again, has this been expressed somewhere? Admittedly i only visit a select few threads on this board.

See above.

This is the single funniest comment Ive ever seen on League Unlimited. I hate on the AFL? Where have i done that in this thread to bring that on. Or anywhere on this board. lol.

Its widely known that Im very much an AFL guy - I can see a bigger picture though.

I never said you hate on AFL. I was talking about the other posters who refer to ARF players as stick insects and other derogatory names. I've been guilty of it too, but am trying to get that irrational anger out of my system as it's counter-productive. I think there's a lot of envy on here for the other mob because it's winning the code war.

 

[Iamback]

True but what about the counter balance of Origin and much larger PTV viewing audiences?

FTA is dying. SOO draws half of what it did pre 2015 when Streaming started to kick off

PTV is hard to measure as games overlap. Ch7 gets the better game for the local markets in AFL, As opposed to NRL who often has a big drawing team on 7.30 Sat night on Fox

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Saying "there isn't enough halfbacks etc" for 16 teams is a subjective opinion, that can't be argued for or against with any factual information.

For mine (subjectively) this can't be used as a reason to reduce teams.

Can you name 16 half-back/five-eight pairings that can take a team to a grand final and win it?

Look at how rudderless Townsend and Dearden were for the Cowboys in the preliminary final against the Eels when the game was there to be won. This is a team that finished 3rd. The club didn't start chalking up big scoreline until Drinkwater shifted to fullback and chipped in at first and second receiver on a regular basis. His ball playing skills and short kicking game created many tries for us.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Nice cherry picking of the singular lowest crowd avg since 2004! Crowds were on the rise 2005 and lasted till 2014. They then dropped and since they've been pretty static at 15-15.2k (2017 being the exception at under 15k). This years been no different (magic round excluded). Maybe they'll grow next year but I don't see much by way of strategic plan to make it happen.

good guess but that's all it is as we dont have any official figures for memberships anymore, and it has slowed to a trickle for most clubs from what we can see

Revenue growth has been great since ARLC took over, $2bill in that period behind our competitors but still...
TV revenue growth in this deal is the lowest % increase in 4 deals. Its a terrible, terrible deal.

like I said some people are happy with mediocrity. 1% is more, but is it enough? Is what we have enough for $3billion of investment and 10 years of independent rule?
Like you said one mans reasonable is another mans disappointment.

I wouldn't worry about The_Wookie's opinion. He doesn't have an emotional investment in our game and would be loving the widening gap between AFL and NRL.

 

[The_Wookie]

you picked out 6 years ago in your comment about crowds being up.

2014 was 8 years ago. Its basic maths. And I said they'd improved on that. Which is absolutely true.

*edit - apparently i said 6 years a few posts ago. Im a jackass. Sorry

they are static Given any level of significance in changing numbers. despite all the money the games spent crowds were not shifting in the immediaye years pre covid and havent yet. That’s not a plus for the games performance.

It is when you factor in COVID and the fact that no one elses crowds have returned to normal, including the vaunted competitors who had their lowest crowd averages since the early 90s.

great so a third better, a third the same, a third worse? Wow that’s some achievement compared to when nrl where running memberships.

You dont get astronomical increases year on year. No one does. They went out like a bull at a gate because before that they didnt exist, and exponential growth was an expected outcome/ That level of growth doesnt continue forever. Youve got unrealistic expectations that arent bounded by reality.

ah now you’re allowing yourself to be pulled down to the knuckle draggers inability to hold a sensible discussion.

To be fair, your allowing yourself to be a jackass. I didnt think Id be in this position on this board, but here we are.

I think you’ll find basing your performance on your nearest competitor is a very common and logical thing to be doing. That we fall short in a number of areas is why people dont like doing it. I get that. Being shown your shortcomings is rarely a comfortable thing.

Theres a time and place for it. Its not in every damn thread you can post it in. We got the message the first hundred times. It wasnt and still isnt relevant to anything I wrote on postive league outcomes.

Bringing up shortcomings over and over and over and over, out of context and in irrelevant situations is just stupid.

it is by far in terms of tv deals in the modern times the worse deal. It hasn’t gone down, wow is that really the measure of success? .Only the skynz part of the deal is any sort of outcome, the Australian parts are an absolute sht show.

It went up mate in total revenue. That alone makes it worth more. And we dont even know the exact amounts of half of it, so your talking out your arse.

I like to think I don’t tow the same line as the sycophants and denialists. doesn’t make me popular with some, but then people who refuse to sit in a box rarely are.

Making sense of half of what you say would be a good start.

 

[Perth Red]

FTA is dying. SOO draws half of what it did pre 2015 when Streaming started to kick off

PTV is hard to measure as games overlap. Ch7 gets the better game for the local markets in AFL, As opposed to NRL who often has a big drawing team on 7.30 Sat night on Fox

Im not sure the devalues origin does it? Especially if you put it to open market. Fta advertising is up even though viewers are down so I think dying is is a bit draamtic.

yes but the bulk of the revenue comes from subscribers, so game overlaps lengths etc are largely irrelevant. Does nrl drive more ptv subscribers? Looking at the top rated sports it’d be hard to argue we don’t. Hence why the value should be much greater for nrl than any other sport. that is is now goi g to be massively behind is just mind boggling really.

 

[The_Wookie]

True but what about the counter balance of Origin and much larger PTV viewing audiences?

Origin is three games a year, total audience largely made up during the AFL finals.

As hard as it is to accept - PTV audience is irrelevant, subscriptions matter, and we dont have that data to see what drives those economic decisions.

 

[The_Wookie]

Gold Coast were kicked out when they were profitable. The Sydney teams that merged or were given the boot were in a dire situation. Cronulla should have been booted.

But they werent, and the financial situation of those days is not the same as today.

If that were remotely true then cricket and golf would command the most money.

It is true. Golf doesnt get anywhere near the sustained audience, and cricket only does during some Tests.

I've played the game and watched it religiously my whole life, so f**k off with your baseless jibes.

No?

Do you even understand the rules and strategy of rugby league or do you just like to compare revenue and fan engagement between Australia's two largest sports?

I understand it, I follow it. I prefer the data side of things more - its no different with the AFL these days.

Yes there is anger up here amongst some rugby league fans who miss the BRL. I explained to you measures put in place by the NSWRL and ARLC over the last 12 years that were intended to weaken and destroy the Queensland Cup. As some one who was an active member of Wynnum Manly I've seen the impact of it. Don't tell me it never happened. You've probably never even been to a Queensland Cup game..

Since I havent been to Queensland much since 1979, no.

That said, My understanding of events at the time comes from reading books on the game for the most part. Happy to be corrected.

How about you stop pretending to be an expert on something you know nothing about?

I havent pretended i was an expert on this.

You wouldn't have a clue what it's like to be a Queensland rugby league fan as you're an Aussie rules fan from Victoria. The world down there is fixated on AFL and wouldn't cover the game thoroughly.

You dont know me dude. its almost like theres a national media and the internet and stuff. Incidentally, Im a Queenslander, who lives in victoria.

What he says is right and based on decades of experience as a committed rugby league fan, which is something you're not. You're just sucking up to the NSWRL fans because you see this as an opportunity to get on their good side.

What he says is not supported by the data for the most part.

I dont need to be on their good side. My posts in this thread wont undo a decade of everything else Ive ever written on twitter, my website, my moderation of talking footy and bigfooty etc etc. Sometimes you need to be able to see the big picture - there are positives, they arent undone by the negatives. Which for some reason Im still having to argue.

 

[Iamback]

Im not sure the devalues origin does it? Especially if you put it to open market. Fta advertising is up even though viewers are down so I think dying is is a bit draamtic.

yes but the bulk of the revenue comes from subscribers, so game overlaps lengths etc are largely irrelevant. Does nrl drive more ptv subscribers? Looking at the top rated sports it’d be hard to argue we don’t. Hence why the value should be much greater for nrl than any other sport. that is is now goi g to be massively behind is just mind boggling really.

SOO 1, SOO had 48% of the market share which was just over 2m people. That means the total audience on FTA was less than some of the big events attracted in the mid 2000's. So nope it is dying.

As for the last point, RL fans have needed to get fox to watch their teams. No such thing with AFL particularly if you live in Adelaide or Perth, So again subs like the ratings don't tell the full story and is data no one has but the TV execs

 

[Perth Red]

2014 was 8 years ago. Its basic maths. And I said they'd improved on that. Which is absolutely true.

*edit - apparently i said 6 years a few posts ago. Im a jackass. Sorry



It is when you factor in COVID and the fact that no one elses crowds have returned to normal, including the vaunted competitors who had their lowest crowd averages since the early 90s.



You dont get astronomical increases year on year. No one does. They went out like a bull at a gate because before that they didnt exist, and exponential growth was an expected outcome/ That level of growth doesnt continue forever. Youve got unrealistic expectations that arent bounded by reality.



To be fair, your allowing yourself to be a jackass. I didnt think Id be in this position on this board, but here we are.



Theres a time and place for it. Its not in every damn thread you can post it in. We got the message the first hundred times. It wasnt and still isnt relevant to anything I wrote on postive league outcomes.

Bringing up shortcomings over and over and over and over, out of context and in irrelevant situations is just stupid.



It went up mate in total revenue. That alone makes it worth more. And we dont even know the exact amounts of half of it, so your talking out your arse.



Making sense of half of what you say would be a good start.

Thats ok, still doesn't tally though. 2014 crowd avg was 15.9k, last year 15.3k. We are down from a decade ago. At least you now seem to agree and are coming up with reasons why crowds arent growing and havent since they dropped in 2015. If you want to look before covid they were static since the drop, last year just replicated that. There isnt any growth of any significance. Maybe it will come, but I cant see why given the NRl and clubs dont seem to have a strategy to make it happen.

Not looking for astronomical anything, but a third lower and a third the same in 4 years is telling wouldnt you agree? Like I said largely static

Its totally relevant, you and others just dont want to use a measurement that you dont like, though given your an afl fan I am surprised. That's your opinion, you're entitled to it, mine is different. If you dont measure yourself against your competitor you can spend a lot of time slapping yourself on the back whilst they pull further and further ahead until you suddenly realise that you are a distant second and unlikely to ever catch up let alone overtake. When you are competing for the same corporates, Govt funding, kids participation, fans eyeballs etc that can be deadly. Ask Union.

It went up by the smallest % in modern times, like I said if youre using the fact it didnt go down as some sort of measure of success then you are setting a very low bar!

Im making my judgment and opinion not on one year or one KPI, and yes its subjective as all opinions are, based on ten years of independent ownership and $3billion of revenue to spend across a range of measures that Id say are relevant. If you think the NRl is in a rosy place great, personally I dont think its anywhere near where it could be, and arguably should be, and the idiots running the show at the moment seem encumbered in setting it further back.

 

[Perth Red]

Origin is three games a year, total audience largely made up during the AFL finals.

As hard as it is to accept - PTV audience is irrelevant, subscriptions matter, and we dont have that data to see what drives those economic decisions.

Three of the highest rating programs of the year. Previously valued around $30million to tv wasn't it?
True but you would expect a correlation between audience level and subscriber motivation wouldn't you?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

But they werent, and the financial situation of those days is not the same as today.

Chargers did have money in the bank.

Magpies were broke and Tigers were not far behind.

North Sydney weren't in a great position.

St George were a dying club. Brian Smith left the joint for Parramatta in the mid-90s claiming it had the "stench of death" about it.

Illawarra were unviable.

South Sydney were a basket case at the time.

It is true. Golf doesnt get anywhere near the sustained audience, and cricket only does during some Tests.

It doesn't mean much to Foxtel as their model run on subscriptions with limited breaks for advertising.

I understand it, I follow it. I prefer the data side of things more - its no different with the AFL these days.

Good.

Since I havent been to Queensland much since 1979, no.

A lot has happened up here over that time.

That said, My understanding of events at the time comes from reading books on the game for the most part. Happy to be corrected.

Fair enough. If you want a good insight into the BRL in 1988 then use the microfilm at the state library to research 1988 copies of the Albert & Logan Times to read John Barber's weekly column. He was a decorated player, coach and commentator. I learnt a lot by reading his weekly column on microfilm about a decade ago.

You dont know me dude. its almost like theres a national media and the internet and stuff. Incidentally, Im a Queenslander, who lives in victoria.

That's interesting.

What he says is not supported by the data for the most part.

Everything he's said about V'landys has come to fruition.

I dont need to be on their good side. My posts in this thread wont undo a decade of everything else Ive ever written on twitter, my website, my moderation of talking footy and bigfooty etc etc. Sometimes you need to be able to see the big picture - there are positives, they arent undone by the negatives. Which for some reason Im still having to argue.

There are some smallpositives in our game, but as a sport we have a history of taking one step forward, followed by two steps back. Our positives are overshadowed by the negatives that no one wants to address.

We could be a lot bigger than we are at present, and the reason we aren't is due to Sydney's self-interest that prevents us from moving into new markets. The only time the Sydney media championed expansion into Perth was when they thought "The Bears" were coming back as a team that played a few matches in Western Australia.

All of the NRL's lobbying for stadia has been confined to teams in Sydney without consideration for regional centres like Wollongong and Canberra. The "three grades on game day" that's on the table crap is to appease nostalgic NSWRL fans and will have a detrimental impact on the sport if it goes ahead.

You cannot blame dyed in the wool rugby league fans who aren't from Sydney for being frustrated at the game. The statistics you cite don't change the fact that the NRL is a continuation of the NSWRL and always puts the best interests of NSWRL fans and clubs ahead of the good of the game.

The NSWRL is guilty of basing the NSW Cup around Sydney and not introducing teams from regional NSW that would benefit from playing in it.

 

[Perth Red]

SOO 1, SOO had 48% of the market share which was just over 2m people. That means the total audience on FTA was less than some of the big events attracted in the mid 2000's. So nope it is dying.

As for the last point, RL fans have needed to get fox to watch their teams. No such thing with AFL particularly if you live in Adelaide or Perth, So again subs like the ratings don't tell the full story and is data no one has but the TV execs

It still rates as 3 of the top 5 programs every year on FTA.
Like I said audiences may be dropping but advertising spend is still going up. Slow to transition maybe, but dying? Well time will tell but whilst advertisers are still spending over $3.8bill a year on it (88% of all tv advertising) I doubt it any time soon.

Total TV advertising market records $4.3 billion for 12 months to June 2022 - ThinkTV

Total TV revenue increases 11 per cent for the 12 months to June 2022 while BVOD growth continues to accelerate – up 53 per cent. ThinkTV has today announced the […]

thinktv.com.au

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

There's no getting around the fact that whatever increase we got for 23-27 -- compared to 18-22 -- was proportionally smaller, percentage wise, than what the other mob got for 25-31 and on our previous deals. That's not being a negative but staying on topic with the title of this thread, which is about V'landys' conduct as chairman. He struck the deal therefore the buck stops with him.

 

[The Penguin #6.]

There's no getting around the fact that whatever increase we got for 23-27 -- compared to 18-22 -- was proportionally smaller, percentage wise, than what the other mob got for 25-31 and on our previous deals. That's not being a negative but staying on topic with the title of this thread, which is about V'landys' conduct as chairman. He struck the deal therefore the buck stops with him.

Before we be too hasty to condemn let`s just see what percentage increase we get for `28 and beyond. There`s a lot of balls in the air for Rugby League leading up to that date and as V`landy`s clearly stated: " fumbleball have set the benchmark now ".

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Thats ok, still doesn't tally though. 2014 crowd avg was 15.9k, last year 15.3k. We are down from a decade ago. At least you now seem to agree and are coming up with reasons why crowds arent growing and havent since they dropped in 2015. If you want to look before covid they were static since the drop, last year just replicated that. There isnt any growth of any significance. Maybe it will come, but I cant see why given the NRl and clubs dont seem to have a strategy to make it happen.

Not looking for astronomical anything, but a third lower and a third the same in 4 years is telling wouldnt you agree? Like I said largely static

Its totally relevant, you and others just dont want to use a measurement that you dont like, though given your an afl fan I am surprised. That's your opinion, you're entitled to it, mine is different. If you dont measure yourself against your competitor you can spend a lot of time slapping yourself on the back whilst they pull further and further ahead until you suddenly realise that you are a distant second and unlikely to ever catch up let alone overtake. When you are competing for the same corporates, Govt funding, kids participation, fans eyeballs etc that can be deadly. Ask Union.

It went up by the smallest % in modern times, like I said if youre using the fact it didnt go down as some sort of measure of success then you are setting a very low bar!

Im making my judgment and opinion not on one year or one KPI, and yes its subjective as all opinions are, based on ten years of independent ownership and $3billion of revenue to spend across a range of measures that Id say are relevant. If you think the NRl is in a rosy place great, personally I dont think its anywhere near where it could be, and arguably should be, and the idiots running the show at the moment seem encumbered in setting it further back.

The biggest concern to me is attendances were stronger pre-ARLC when David Gallop was in charge. Despite all the riches that have flowed into the game since 2012, we've gone backwards in many areas and remained stagnant.

The ARLC was supposed to be the catalyst of a golden period for rugby league. That's what I heard from the NSWRL fans on various websites back in 2012. Other than making the players richer and allowing small Sydney clubs to live beyond their means, it hasn't really done much for the game's development.


For years we had Grant and Greenberg refusing to expand because clubs were broke. I think Cronulla were millions of dollars in debt as recently as 2018 or 2019. Greenberg asked them to explain why they shouldn't be relocated, so V'landys stepped in and supported their continued inclusion, then said no money will be wasted on "rusted on AFL states".

If that ain't proof the ARLC is Sydney-centric then what will it take to wake people up?

 

[Wb1234]

Anyway let’s put this whole vlandys thing into context :

in the nrl we’ve had

1. whittacker … arl man, total muppet, news ltd rang rings around him, signed one of the worst tv deals including first and last rights. Total flop

2. gallop .. probably the second best boss in nrl history. Tried his best and genuinely liked the game. Under his watch souths we’re allowed back in and he added the titans

he wasn’t allowed to add brissie 2, as part of the peace deal was a broncos monopoly until 2015

highlighted the western coridoor as an excellent expansion area

under his tenure the quality of football was the best and the salary cap actually worked. Different teams made the finals and won the grand final more regularly than today

ultimately news ltds 50 percent ownership of the game was always going to hold him back, and he was seen as biased, as he was news ltd lawyer during super league

signed a tv deal which subsequently afl got double, then tried to defend his deal by saying Afl had more capital city teams so they deserved more

4. Moffatt .. ex boss of the wales ru and maybe nzru. Total failure. Was overawed by the game and never fit in

5. David smith … from outside the and a business background. Talked an excellent game including trying to get variable funding for clubs and new broadcasters involved

ultimately totally failed by signing with 9 for what turned out to be poor money as nine sold the extra game and streaming rights to foxtel and which the nrl got nothing

totally ticked off foxtel when there were no other bidders and after we got rid of Monday night football got shafted ever more with Friday 6 pm

6. Greenberg … basically a yes man. Did some good things including no fault standown and harsher penalties on players. Signed a decent tv deal

failed to expand

7. John grant … did some good things including digital but ultimately was a pawn to clubs including agreeing to 130 percent funding over total player payments and has a weak knowledge of the clubs and game

8. Peter Beattie … talked about expanding but ultimately knew he was out of his depth

that’s close to 25 years of ceos and chairmen since the nrl was formed

other than gallop the rest were either average (Greenberg) or an outright disaster

and comparing it with afl is also kind stupid bc afl has had stable leadership for 40 years and no super league war

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Before we be too hasty to condemn let`s just see what percentage increase we get for `28 and beyond. There`s a lot of balls in the air for Rugby League leading up to that date and as V`landy`s clearly stated: " fumbleball have set the benchmark now ".

Fumbleball set the benchmark in 2006 and we've never been able to match them.

The clubs are angry with V'landys for the low figure he got from the broadcasters. I think that says it all.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

So let me get this straight:
15900 - 15300 = 600.

NRL crowds are down 600 people per game on average compared to 8 years ago.

Yep, that's convinced me V'landys has driven the game to oblivion.

 

[Phil McGrawhan]

Where do I start with this crap.

Magic Round is an annual event that draws tourists to Brisbane to watch eight games over three days. If it was played every weekend it wouldn't draw so many tourists. It's nothing like a regular round. The average attendance for this event is almost three times the season average. To claim it's "nothing different" just because the teams are playing for premiership points is so laughably stupid I feel sorry for you. There's a reason the Queensland Gov pays to host this event and why its crowds aren't replicated every week.

Yes, State of Origin is an event that draws spectators who don't even watch the NRL. There's a reason its crowds and ratings aren't replicated by NRL teams on a weekly basis.

Games played on ANZAC Day, Good Friday, Easter Sunday and Easter Monday draw larger than average crowds because they're marketed as an event.

Leave the debate to the grown ups.

Jesus you’re a bright one .
you try to counter my argument with IF ..IF

sorry there’s no ifs .
magic Rd should not be discounted because of some criteria you set.
lol
just lol.
as Wookie said
Anzac Day Good Fri etc should also not be counted ( by your bizarro logic) as they are classed as events .
your rancid hate for anything Syd or PVL is bordering on batshit crazy.
give it a rest .