Peter V'landys - New NRL/ARLC Chairman

[AlwaysGreen]

I’d love to know why sydney clubs aren’t as popular as they could be and if there is anything the nrl and clubs could do to address that. When you look at main sports in any major city Sydney clubs fall way down the table for revenue, supporters and facilities. Nrl on sydney avg game attendance comes in about 42nd from memory on attendances for main sport In a major city.

And yet they're still here and long may it be so.

Only a few more weeks to go and you can watch your stick men fumbling around in the afl. Bless.

 

[Phil McGrawhan]

Anyone who discounts crowds (magic Rd) as an event & shouldn’t be included has already lost the argument.
it is still a Rd of the NRL for competition pts.
nothing differ t except played at one venue& gives fans of clubs they rarely get to see play in QLD play at Suncorp.

its a pathetic argument….does he include SOO as an event because there’s only one game in QLD .

the NRL nines was an event.
2 days of footy with a festival feel & a few different rules …all in fun .

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Anyone who discounts crowds (magic Rd) as an event & shouldn’t be included has already lost the argument.
it is still a Rd of the NRL for competition pts.
nothing differ t except played at one venue& gives fans of clubs they rarely get to see play in QLD play at Suncorp.

its a pathetic argument….does he include SOO as an event because there’s only one game in QLD .

the NRL nines was an event.
2 days of footy with a festival feel & a few different rules …all in fun .

Where do I start with this crap.

Magic Round is an annual event that draws tourists to Brisbane to watch eight games over three days. If it was played every weekend it wouldn't draw so many tourists. It's nothing like a regular round. The average attendance for this event is almost three times the season average. To claim it's "nothing different" just because the teams are playing for premiership points is so laughably stupid I feel sorry for you. There's a reason the Queensland Gov pays to host this event and why its crowds aren't replicated every week.

Yes, State of Origin is an event that draws spectators who don't even watch the NRL. There's a reason its crowds and ratings aren't replicated by NRL teams on a weekly basis.

Games played on ANZAC Day, Good Friday, Easter Sunday and Easter Monday draw larger than average crowds because they're marketed as an event.

Leave the debate to the grown ups.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

well it still does, it shows only 2 of 9 Sydney clubs drawing reasonable crowds (3 depending on which roosters one is correct). The rest are below avg

One of those Roosters games was boosted by being the first NRL game at the rebuilt SFS. It was a once in a lifetime event.

Parramatta and Penrith were the only Sydney teams punching above the season average and much of that was due to onfield success.

All he did was prove my point.

 

[Iamback]

Anyone who discounts crowds (magic Rd) as an event & shouldn’t be included has already lost the argument.
it is still a Rd of the NRL for competition pts.
nothing differ t except played at one venue& gives fans of clubs they rarely get to see play in QLD play at Suncorp.

its a pathetic argument….does he include SOO as an event because there’s only one game in QLD .

the NRL nines was an event.
2 days of footy with a festival feel & a few different rules …all in fun .

Someone posted an article relating to Horse racing but the same applies here,

You won't get huge numbers for every game/round but more events is the better

 

[MugaB]

One of those Roosters games was boosted by being the first NRL game at the rebuilt SFS. It was a once in a lifetime event.

Parramatta and Penrith were the only Sydney teams punching above the season average and much of that was due to onfield success.

All he did was prove my point.

You're point is always invalid, because you cherry pick stats to suit your argument/s

Magic round doesn't count... why?
Alf seems to play all in one or 2 stadia in Melbourne, so that also doesnt count then..
Penrith and parra are in the good books now, coz they are in finals consistently ... but it used to be cronulla and manly, then before that souths and bulldogs... but never tigers and dragons, and easts are rarely missing out

Its always been cyclical... but your hard on to punt certain teams is only used in cherry picked stats... aka your just a fkwit

 

[Captain Apollo]

Anyone who discounts crowds (magic Rd) as an event & shouldn’t be included has already lost the argument.
it is still a Rd of the NRL for competition pts.
nothing differ t except played at one venue& gives fans of clubs they rarely get to see play in QLD play at Suncorp.

its a pathetic argument….does he include SOO as an event because there’s only one game in QLD .

the NRL nines was an event.
2 days of footy with a festival feel & a few different rules …all in fun .

Preaching to the converted here. Ask us Roosters fans what it's like for whenever we are the home team for the Anzac day clash, people keep saying that should not be counted when calculating average home game attendances for that year.

If anyone went by that logic, you'd have to do the same for Melbourne on Anzac day, South Sydney and Canterbury for Good Friday etc etc. As you said, it is just plain ridiculous.

 

[The_Wookie]

well it still does, it shows only 2 of 9 Sydney clubs drawing reasonable crowds (3 depending on which roosters one is correct). The rest are below avg

all 3 Roosters crowds given on the table are correct. And Dont forget Cronulla were capacity limited this season to 12,000 with several sellouts.

reasonable is highly subjective. A reasonable crowd for you isnt necessaarily the same standard as everyone else.

The reason I didn't include games played at rural venues is because they have limited capacity.

The reason I didn't include games played during Magic Round is because the figures are inflated by it being an "event" that draws fans who otherwise wouldn't be there for that game.

None of these things are on the graph.

Did you only include games where a team was designated as the "home" team?

Yes. Both on the graph and on the table.

I think you should put separate the games on the list by an Magic Round, rural venues and SFS, as it's hard to see your point at first glance.

Then open your eyes. If a non Queensland team has one game at Suncorp in the year, its clearly Magic Round. The table specifies venue AND location of the venue. This isnt rocket science.

 

[The_Wookie]

here’s some facts for you
- crowds lower than 10 years ago
- membership growth slowed to a trickle, that we know of as it’s now not even bothered being counted officially
- revenue falling behind afl more than ever and about to become blown out of the water
- tv devaluing the game to the point where there’s virtually zero cash growth for the first time ever

yeh games going ‘gangbusters’ under Vlandys

Heres some facts for you.

Crowds are higher than they were 6 years ago.
Membership is higher than it was 6 years ago - with growth rates in line with even the AFL
Revenue is at its highest level ever.
TV revenue is at its highest level ever.

Which is what I originally said. No one can help your obsession with the AFL and what it is doing., but as far as rugby league is going, on the whole its going as well as it ever has.

 

[Iamback]

Preaching to the converted here. Ask us Roosters fans what it's like for whenever we are the home team for the Anzac day clash, people keep saying that should not be counted when calculating average home game attendances for that year.

If anyone went by that logic, you'd have to do the same for Melbourne on Anzac day, South Sydney and Canterbury for Good Friday etc etc. As you said, it is just plain ridiculous.

I think there needs to be more of these 'event' games. It makes up for the poor timeslot games

 

[The_Wookie]

No matter which metric you use, the bleeding obvious point is there's clubs in Sydney that will always be more of a liability than an actual asset because they represent small regions with too few people to ever have a large fanbase. By having these teams chewing up precious licences it's left us with Brisbane having just two teams, New Zealand with just one and Adelaide and Perth with none.

You might say "add more teams", but there's not enough half-backs, five-eights, dummy halves and fullbacks to fill 16 rosters. We don't have enough quality spine players to cover more than a few teams. Our development system does nothing to develop quality half-backs and five-eights who can organise a team and get the ball where it needs to go. A team with poor quality spine players is a bore to watch and will finish down the bottom of the ladder. Queensland dominated Origin for eight years because it a litany of world class spine players while NSW had none. That's how important these four positions are to a football team's success.

We would need to expand to 22 or 24 teams to cover everywhere without rationalising Sydney. We don't have the talent pool or money to support a competition of this size. So rationalisation is a necessity for the game to grow. Good luck having 16 or more clubs averaging 20k when the talent pool is so dire it puts people off from wanting to watch also-rans run around like headless chooks.



Rams and Reds were cut to appease NSWRL clubs and fans. The Bradley Report said the competition needed to be rationalised to 14 teams with Sydney having no more than five. The NSWRL clubs refused to play ball, so News Ltd and the ARL went about eliminating Non-Sydney teams to get the number down to 14 by 2000.

They also merged several Sydney teams and kicked out the Rabbitohs (temporarily).

I said it would get closer. Not equal. These things only matter to FTA.

Engagement length matters to all broadcasters.

You obviously don't understand the game and its history all that well.

Im not sure you understand the game at all.

It's foolish to expect Queenslanders to care for privileged Sydney clubs who used gaming machine revenue to rape and pillage the BRL into extinction for 30 years and then f**ked over the Broncos, Cowboys, Crushers and Chargers. They also screwed over the Reds. Brisbane has been limited to just one team by a Sydney-centric ARL that always put the interests of Sydney's clubs ahead of everyone else. The NSWRL went out of its way to weaken the Queensland Cup about 12 years ago and the ARLC under V'landys is now trying to destroy it altogether to bring back three grades that no one will watch. This will lead to clubs that have existed since 1908 becoming irrelevant or possibly folding.

The anger towards traditional NSWRL clubs is justified and will not go away just because you think it is "dumb".

Is there any actual anger though? Was Brisbane limited to one team by the ARL or by other forces as well?

RL in Perth as been f**ked over by the NSWRL too, hence the reason @Perth Red is rightfully upset with the game.

And on the Perth thing, he is correct to be irritated.

The people who childishly attack @Perth Red and braindead NSWRL fans whoa want a return to the NSWRFL Premiership.

No. They attack him because hes constantly running the game down and supposedly an NRL fan.

They don't give a f**k about the game outside of Sydney and think Queensland, New South Wales and New Zealand exist solely to prop up the nine shit teams from Sydney.

Do they really? I havent seen them express that.

If you wish to throw your lot in with these hillbillies from Sydney then be my guest, but don't come whinging to me when they want the Storm to be kicked out, which a lot of them do.

Again, has this been expressed somewhere? Admittedly i only visit a select few threads on this board.

What's the point in hating AFL like these blokes do?

This is the single funniest comment Ive ever seen on League Unlimited. I hate on the AFL? Where have i done that in this thread to bring that on. Or anywhere on this board. lol.

Its widely known that Im very much an AFL guy - I can see a bigger picture though.

 

[Iamback]

Engagement length matters to all broadcasters.

No. They attack him because hes constantly running the game down and supposedly an NRL fan.

Correct in both of these, I have argued the AFL should get more because of game length. Even on Fox on a Sat, You have the audience from 1pm until well past 11pm. So much more cross promotion, Sportsbet ads to put in that time.

You nailed the PR attack in one

 

[The_Wookie]

Where do I start with this crap.

Magic Round is an annual event that draws tourists to Brisbane to watch eight games over three days. If it was played every weekend it wouldn't draw so many tourists. It's nothing like a regular round. The average attendance for this event is almost three times the season average. To claim it's "nothing different" just because the teams are playing for premiership points is so laughably stupid I feel sorry for you. There's a reason the Queensland Gov pays to host this event and why its crowds aren't replicated every week.

Magic Round is an annual event now, and if properly calculated the average game attendance was 16,276 for the round. 7 other rounds in 2022 had a higher average crowd (6, 7, 17, 20, 23,24, & 25)

Games played on ANZAC Day, Good Friday, Easter Sunday and Easter Monday draw larger than average crowds because they're marketed as an event.

also annual events that should be treated no differently under your criteria.

Leave the debate to the grown ups.

When will you be leaving the debate then

 

[Munky]

People I"m not sure you understand.

If we arbitrarily remove the 91, 03, 21 and 22 seasons Penrith have never won a premiership.

Faultless logic.

Five out of seven nights most hospitality businesses are pretty empty. Obviously Friday and Saturday should be excluded from the P&L since they skew it badly.

 

[Wb1234]

Someone posted an article relating to Horse racing but the same applies here,

You won't get huge numbers for every game/round but more events is the better

Events has been where the arlc have been making serious coin

magic, all stars, origin games in non heartland markets

I really think they should go back to having the grand final rematch as round zero every season and up for bidding

when they used to play it as a trial it was getting massive crowds

 

[Iamback]

People I"m not sure you understand.

If we arbitrarily remove the 91, 03, 21 and 22 seasons Penrith have never won a premiership.

Faultless logic.

Five out of seven nights most hospitality businesses are pretty empty. Obviously Friday and Saturday should be excluded from the P&L since they skew it badly.

NRL has 0 viewers between Oct-Feb.

Code in Decline

 

[Iamback]

Events has been where the arlc have been making serious coin

magic, all stars, origin games in non heartland markets

I really think they should go back to having the grand final rematch as round zero every season and up for bidding

when they used to play it as a trial it was getting massive crowds

Yep, Likely going to have a sponsor for the pre-season as per the article the other week.

If the USA game ever happens that too is another event

 

[Canard]

Saying "there isn't enough halfbacks etc" for 16 teams is a subjective opinion, that can't be argued for or against with any factual information.

For mine (subjectively) this can't be used as a reason to reduce teams.

 

[Perth Red]

Heres some facts for you.

Crowds are higher than they were 6 years ago.
Membership is higher than it was 6 years ago - with growth rates in line with even the AFL
Revenue is at its highest level ever.
TV revenue is at its highest level ever.

Which is what I originally said. No one can help your obsession with the AFL and what it is doing., but as far as rugby league is going, on the whole its going as well as it ever has.

Nice cherry picking of the singular lowest crowd avg since 2004! Crowds were on the rise 2005 and lasted till 2014. They then dropped and since they've been pretty static at 15-15.2k (2017 being the exception at under 15k). This years been no different (magic round excluded). Maybe they'll grow next year but I don't see much by way of strategic plan to make it happen.

good guess but that's all it is as we dont have any official figures for memberships anymore, and it has slowed to a trickle for most clubs from what we can see

Revenue growth has been great since ARLC took over, $2bill in that period behind our competitors but still...
TV revenue growth in this deal is the lowest % increase in 4 deals. Its a terrible, terrible deal.

like I said some people are happy with mediocrity. 1% is more, but is it enough? Is what we have enough for $3billion of investment and 10 years of independent rule?
Like you said one mans reasonable is another mans disappointment.

 

[The_Wookie]

Nice cherry picking of the singular lowest crowd avg since 2004! Crowds were on the rise 2005 and lasted till 2014. They then dropped and since they've been pretty static at 15-15.2k (2017 being the exception at under 15k). This years been no different (magic round excluded). Maybe they'll grow next year but I don't see much by way of strategic plan to make it happen.

I didnt cherry pick. ive said all along that they are improving, and they are. Highest average since 2014 - best average in 8 years, is nothing to sneeze at. Your lovechild over at the AFL hasnt been able to catch pre 2019 levels. let alone the 2008 record season. To come out of COVID and have the best season in 8 years attendance wise is bloody good.

good guess but that's all it is as we dont have any official figures for memberships anymore, and it has slowed to a trickle for most clubs from what we can see

We have enough club official data to make that assumption. And 5% growth is not nothing.

Revenue growth has been great since ARLC took over, $2bill in that period behind our competitors but still...

You ride that horse mate, ride it into the ground.

all i needed to say there was positive was growth was that Revenue growth was great.

TV revenue growth in this deal is the lowest % increase in 4 deals. Its a terrible, terrible deal.

Its still the highest its ever been. And thats not nothing. In fact, thats a positive outcome, by definition.

like I said some people are happy with mediocrity. 1% is more, but is it enough? Is what we have enough for $3billion of investment and 10 years of independent rule?

And as Ive repeatedly said, that has nothing to do with anything I wrote above, and everything to do with your inferiority complex where the AFL is concerned.

Like you said one mans reasonable is another mans disappointment.

if most men have been reasonable and one or two disagree then those two should be looking closely at themselves.