Peter V'landys - New NRL/ARLC Chairman

[ColdWetPanther]

Advertisements etc, The Fox sports finals ads are an example

So is this non financial compensation that the league receives from its broadcast partners to promote the game?

 

[Perth Red]

So no link then?

SkyNZ and fox both say terms not disclosed

Yet you know for a fact what is cash and isn't?

and $550m is cash and contra for AFL

I am Happy to run with that as the figure but isn't the cash amount so again need to find a link to show it

How can it be $550mill cash and contra when the total deal is $4.5billion?
The nrl sky nz deal was announced as $32.4mill back when the deal was done.

NRL announces 2bn in Broadcast TV and Radio Rights Agreements 2023-2027 - Sports Industry AU

The ARLC has secured a record broadcast deal for the game after reaching a new free-to-air broadcast agreement with Nine Entertainment until the end of the 2027 season. The total media rights revenue for game under the new deal is now valued at more than $400m per annum for five years, from...

www.footyindustry.com

Anyways we have a discussion on this in the tv thread, let’s keep this one for how much Vlandys has fcked over the game With his incompetence (or conflict of interest) and if he should stay or go.

 

[Perth Red]

Yes

So is this non financial compensation that the league receives from its broadcast partners to promote the game?

it’s just padding, your rarely see adverts for nrl or rugby league that go beyond advertising up and coming games. Think I’ve only seen ticket sales adds for some of the nrl events and one for rugby jnr stars program. Certainly not $24mill worth!

 

[Iamback]

So is this non financial compensation that the league receives from its broadcast partners to promote the game?

That is correct, It is good to see tickets with but you can't pay players or clubs with it

 

[Generalzod]

You are talking about the current year? Besides the Warriors, there hasn’t been that much of an excuse. People have been cooped up inside and should be wanting to go out.

As I said beforehand, crowds have always been a concern and have trailed fumbleball significantly for time immemorial and we haven’t done enough to remedy that. That’s definitely not all about V’Landys but it is not liked he has solved the conundrum either.

The growth has been good sure but that salary cap increase is terribly inflated. The game hasn’t grown that much in the last ten years so they are taking that growth money and putting all towards players. Now personally I don’t think that is sustainable - we need to actually spend money on grassroots, development, marketing, ways to actually promote club growth.

You inferred it by suggesting that clubs would essentially dictate how it played out. Now, once again no other industry would essentially change something without consulting other stakeholders first. Why for example would it have been too hard to do it after the end of last season or better yet give clubs 12/24 months to prepare so that they can change and adapt their squads to reflect the new style of play? Why couldn’t you test it in match situations first to see how teams or players reacted and thus work out the positives/negatives before implementing the rule change? Why did we even need the rule change when you could have just enforced the current rules better- wouldn’t that have been the easiest thing to do? There were plenty of options available but he just chose the most pig headed and arrogant way of doing it.

That's because you can seat in the comfort of your own home watching all the games no seating problem, no long queues at the food/drink bar no smelly toilets, is it not what the NRL want?

 

[Colk]

That's because you can seat in the comfort of your own home watching all the games no seating problem, no long queues at the food/drink bar no smelly toilets, is it not what the NRL want?

It is not impossible to have both? Essentially the other code are playing in modern stadiums that have healthy crowds and that plays well on TV

For instance the Souths/Roosters looked great on TV because you are playing a game in a modern stadium filled to the rafters and the atmosphere plays wonderfully well on TV.

I think your post highlights the problem though: the facilities at most rectangular grounds are pretty ordinary. Also they are massively overpriced - like $50 to go and watch the Tigers at Leichhardt Oval is seriously a joke.

 

[Quicksilver]

Tigers at Leichhardt is a better experience than Tigers at Homebush for me.

And I'll pay for what I enjoy

 

[Iamback]

You are talking about the current year? Besides the Warriors, there hasn’t been that much of an excuse. People have been cooped up inside and should be wanting to go out.

As I said beforehand, crowds have always been a concern and have trailed fumbleball significantly for time immemorial and we haven’t done enough to remedy that. That’s definitely not all about V’Landys but it is not liked he has solved the conundrum either.

The growth has been good sure but that salary cap increase is terribly inflated. The game hasn’t grown that much in the last ten years so they are taking that growth money and putting all towards players. Now personally I don’t think that is sustainable - we need to actually spend money on grassroots, development, marketing, ways to actually promote club growth.

You inferred it by suggesting that clubs would essentially dictate how it played out. Now, once again no other industry would essentially change something without consulting other stakeholders first. Why for example would it have been too hard to do it after the end of last season or better yet give clubs 12/24 months to prepare so that they can change and adapt their squads to reflect the new style of play? Why couldn’t you test it in match situations first to see how teams or players reacted and thus work out the positives/negatives before implementing the rule change? Why did we even need the rule change when you could have just enforced the current rules better- wouldn’t that have been the easiest thing to do? There were plenty of options available but he just chose the most pig headed and arrogant way of doing it.

How can we rate the performance of the ARLC and PVL if we aren't talking about current issues?

Again why are we comparing to a code that is essentially much better product to watch Live?
NRL is the highest attended Rugby comp on earth, That includes European Rugby and all those much richer competitions

The game made a profit last year on top of the inflated salary cap, So yes the growth is there

No you did, I merely agreed. Should the NRL make their decisions based on what random people a forum want or what is best for players and the clubs?

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

That's because you can seat in the comfort of your own home watching all the games no seating problem, no long queues at the food/drink bar no smelly toilets, is it not what the NRL want?

100% but doesn’t that also apply to AFL too, GZ?

I have a ton of mates who support different NRL clubs but are happy to get together and watch the game at the pub or home, yet they all have a Swans membership.

What I do and I bet you and everyone else on here do the same, that is when you’ve watched your team play live, you go home (after a beer or three) and watch it again on TV to see the stuff you may have missed live. My Swans mates don’t, they drink on. They don’t have to because they’ve seen everything there is to see at the game. There’s less nuance or slight-of-hand for example than RL. Forwards passes or offsides and other subtle margins are better judged on TV. AFL on the other hand is just one big, glorified kicking duel compared to rugby league but with contact and a ton of scoring.

RL is a better TV product. No wonder media moguls went to war over it. I’m not sure it’s something we can ever fix. Better pricing and scheduling is a start but they don’t seem interested in addressing the former and the networks bugger up the latter.

 

[Colk]

How can we rate the performance of the ARLC and PVL if we aren't talking about current issues?

Again why are we comparing to a code that is essentially much better product to watch Live?
NRL is the highest attended Rugby comp on earth, That includes European Rugby and all those much richer competitions

The game made a profit last year on top of the inflated salary cap, So yes the growth is there

No you did, I merely agreed. Should the NRL make their decisions based on what random people a forum want or what is best for players and the clubs?

1. Because they are historical. People who want to criticise Greenberg or Gallop and say how V’Landys is so much better than them can’t then use growth figures attributable to the former when judging V’Landys. That is just as false as me blaming a current political party for factors caused by the preceding. If we want to judge V’Landys then talk about the game since he took over.

2. That is one of those often repeated lines unthinkingly and unquestionably spoken by people like something out of 1984 or Brave New World.

It is also incredibly damaging to the game. It means clubs don’t generate enough revenue because they can sit and wait for their grant. It means clubs don’t have to try and improve their marketing or operate like a business. It means clubs continue to play at s***holes because they couldn’t get enough people to fill bigger stadiums in any case. It also doesn’t help our argument to say we are a better TV sport when we are earning what $150 million less on TV contracts than the ‘better live sport’.

3. Ok you’ve lost me here. Are you suggesting that is common or good practice to completely change something or introduce new rules without telling players first etc? Are you saying that it didn’t matter? Are you saying that the players welcomed it? Also a couple of things in addendum

- Fans are the most important stakeholders and plenty were p***** off at the blowouts in 2020 and 2021. Also a lot of commentators were berating the standard - they couldn’t dare to criticise their golden boy but they were still lamenting the standard. The rules had a negative impact and clubs are only now catching up or adjusting. We essentially created two years of poorer content.

- If the purpose or argument for changing the rules is to stop players or coaches cheating etc then it’s a fool’s errand. Players and coaches will always look for an advantage so why wouldn’t you do the better long term thing and fix officiating rather than applying quick fixes to the rules.

 

[Generalzod]

100% but doesn’t that also apply to AFL too, GZ?

I have a ton of mates who support different NRL clubs but are happy to get together and watch the game at the pub or home, yet they all have a Swans membership.

What I do and I bet you and everyone else on here do the same, that is when you’ve watched your team play live, you go home (after a beer or three) and watch it again on TV to see the stuff you may have missed live. My Swans mates don’t, they drink on. They don’t have to because they’ve seen everything there is to see at the game. There’s less nuance or slight-of-hand for example than RL. Forwards passes or offsides and other subtle margins are better judged on TV. AFL on the other hand is just one big, glorified kicking duel compared to rugby league but with contact and a ton of scoring.

RL is a better TV product. No wonder media moguls went to war over it. I’m not sure it’s something we can ever fix. Better pricing and scheduling is a start but they don’t seem interested in addressing the former and the networks bugger up the latter.

AFL are a different kind of supporter, I remember in 80's some games of Rugby League drew crowds of 6000, sometimes less, this when all the games where on Sunday where all games started at 3:00 pm.

 

[mongoose]

100% but doesn’t that also apply to AFL too, GZ?

I have a ton of mates who support different NRL clubs but are happy to get together and watch the game at the pub or home, yet they all have a Swans membership.

What I do and I bet you and everyone else on here do the same, that is when you’ve watched your team play live, you go home (after a beer or three) and watch it again on TV to see the stuff you may have missed live. My Swans mates don’t, they drink on. They don’t have to because they’ve seen everything there is to see at the game. There’s less nuance or slight-of-hand for example than RL. Forwards passes or offsides and other subtle margins are better judged on TV. AFL on the other hand is just one big, glorified kicking duel compared to rugby league but with contact and a ton of scoring.

RL is a better TV product. No wonder media moguls went to war over it. I’m not sure it’s something we can ever fix. Better pricing and scheduling is a start but they don’t seem interested in addressing the former and the networks bugger up the latter.

This is true, I went to Origin 3 at Suncorp, amazing atmosphere and good experience but I had to watch the game on TV the next day as there was a bunch of moments I missed.
AFL is such a different sport and experience... its not a game where individual moments can have a big impact on the result like League. You can literally walk away from an AFL game for 10 min and not have missed anything important, the score will just keep ticking along.... I remember going to an AFL game at the "G", amazing ground but there was a huge group of people in one of the members bars just chatting and not even watching the game lol.

 

[Iamback]

1. Because they are historical. People who want to criticise Greenberg or Gallop and say how V’Landys is so much better than them can’t then use growth figures attributable to the former when judging V’Landys. That is just as false as me blaming a current political party for factors caused by the preceding. If we want to judge V’Landys then talk about the game since he took over.

2. That is one of those often repeated lines unthinkingly and unquestionably spoken by people like something out of 1984 or Brave New World.

It is also incredibly damaging to the game. It means clubs don’t generate enough revenue because they can sit and wait for their grant. It means clubs don’t have to try and improve their marketing or operate like a business. It means clubs continue to play at s***holes because they couldn’t get enough people to fill bigger stadiums in any case. It also doesn’t help our argument to say we are a better TV sport when we are earning what $150 million less on TV contracts than the ‘better live sport’.

3. Ok you’ve lost me here. Are you suggesting that is common or good practice to completely change something or introduce new rules without telling players first etc? Are you saying that it didn’t matter? Are you saying that the players welcomed it? Also a couple of things in addendum

- Fans are the most important stakeholders and plenty were p***** off at the blowouts in 2020 and 2021. Also a lot of commentators were berating the standard - they couldn’t dare to criticise their golden boy but they were still lamenting the standard. The rules had a negative impact and clubs are only now catching up or adjusting. We essentially created two years of poorer content.

- If the purpose or argument for changing the rules is to stop players or coaches cheating etc then it’s a fool’s errand. Players and coaches will always look for an advantage so why wouldn’t you do the better long term thing and fix officiating rather than applying quick fixes to the rules.

1- The ARLC was formed before the start of the 2012 season. How do we assess if the ARLC and as a result the chairman is going well if revenue growth isn't counted?

2 - Given the Rugby codes are played in the same countries it is a like for like comparison, Take US for Example MSL ave 20,854 to games. NFL 67,254. Does that mean soccer is failing in that country? As a league MSL is going just fine.

Look at where the teams are based How many professional Sports are in Townsville? Wollongong? Newcastle? Canberra hell even GC only has 2 sports?

Those 4 cities population combined is less than Adelaide. So it means revenue base is smaller, It also means costs generally should be less in those areas which means profit from a smaller base

We don't know the final figures for either deal so to say exact numbers is foolish right now but they aren't a like for like comparison from the reasons I listed. Particularly the Fox part of both deals is yet to come out
Also what the Telstra part of AFL deal is too. FTA we know and that is all

3 - Do you think the Maccas CEO asked every staff member's thoughts before they change things up? Why should they it is their head on the chopping block if things go down the drain

You didn't answer my question about the Blowouts. Has the rule change back made the Cowboys good again?

I'd argue we would of got blow outs anyway, There was no 2nd tier footy. We had a lot of young guys in the league due to some very very good elite guys retiring

I will use Cowboys again

Thurston (2018)
Coote (2018)

Were 2 key players just left
Gavin Cooper was finishing up,
Michael Morgan didn't play much through injury

Any team loses a great of the game and a few other role players from a successful team will struggle to get back to a level again. The rules were just a lazy excuse and the level of footy this year shows it was just an outlier not a trend

 

[Iamback]

100% but doesn’t that also apply to AFL too, GZ?

I have a ton of mates who support different NRL clubs but are happy to get together and watch the game at the pub or home, yet they all have a Swans membership.

What I do and I bet you and everyone else on here do the same, that is when you’ve watched your team play live, you go home (after a beer or three) and watch it again on TV to see the stuff you may have missed live. My Swans mates don’t, they drink on. They don’t have to because they’ve seen everything there is to see at the game. There’s less nuance or slight-of-hand for example than RL. Forwards passes or offsides and other subtle margins are better judged on TV. AFL on the other hand is just one big, glorified kicking duel compared to rugby league but with contact and a ton of scoring.

RL is a better TV product. No wonder media moguls went to war over it. I’m not sure it’s something we can ever fix. Better pricing and scheduling is a start but they don’t seem interested in addressing the former and the networks bugger up the latter.

Depends how good the game is. A few this year have been the Kayo minis but yes most people re-watch the game

 

[Captain Apollo]

.....no smelly toilets.....

Been doing a lot of investigation and research into how other people's home toilets smell eh?

 

[Colk]

1- The ARLC was formed before the start of the 2012 season. How do we assess if the ARLC and as a result the chairman is going well if revenue growth isn't counted?

2 - Given the Rugby codes are played in the same countries it is a like for like comparison, Take US for Example MSL ave 20,854 to games. NFL 67,254. Does that mean soccer is failing in that country? As a league MSL is going just fine.

Look at where the teams are based How many professional Sports are in Townsville? Wollongong? Newcastle? Canberra hell even GC only has 2 sports?

Those 4 cities population combined is less than Adelaide. So it means revenue base is smaller, It also means costs generally should be less in those areas which means profit from a smaller base

We don't know the final figures for either deal so to say exact numbers is foolish right now but they aren't a like for like comparison from the reasons I listed. Particularly the Fox part of both deals is yet to come out
Also what the Telstra part of AFL deal is too. FTA we know and that is all

3 - Do you think the Maccas CEO asked every staff member's thoughts before they change things up? Why should they it is their head on the chopping block if things go down the drain

You didn't answer my question about the Blowouts. Has the rule change back made the Cowboys good again?

I'd argue we would of got blow outs anyway, There was no 2nd tier footy. We had a lot of young guys in the league due to some very very good elite guys retiring

I will use Cowboys again

Thurston (2018)
Coote (2018)

Were 2 key players just left
Gavin Cooper was finishing up,
Michael Morgan didn't play much through injury

Any team loses a great of the game and a few other role players from a successful team will struggle to get back to a level again. The rules were just a lazy excuse and the level of footy this year shows it was just an outlier not a trend

1. Aren’t we judging V’Landys though? What use is there talking about 10 years prior? What is the growth since he was Chairman?

2. Isn’t that the game’s fault? They have had a chance to maximise revenue for a long time by having a national competition but we haven’t seriously attempted to gain a foothold outside of NSW/QLD (outside of Melbourne - and thank god we have them otherwise our TV deal would be even worse). V’Landys and League management apologists can’t use that excuse if it is something that the game could actually solve. Although, if the glorious leader’s thoughts on ‘rusted on AFL states’ are any indication we may never reach our potential.

3. All the excuses you have put forward doesn’t help your argument, it actually makes the idea of 6 again even more ill conceived. If there were concerns about quality or people retiring and nobody playing in the grades below, why would you then make a such a sudden change to the fabric of the game’s rules without any preparation or consultation. How idiotic is that?
Also, the argument about McDonalds is a false equivalence. If for example, they didn’t give anyone on the job training prior to starting then your example might hold water.

 

[Iamback]

1. Aren’t we judging V’Landys though? What use is there talking about 10 years prior? What is the growth since he was Chairman?

2. Isn’t that the game’s fault? They have had a chance to maximise revenue for a long time by having a national competition but we haven’t seriously attempted to gain a foothold outside of NSW/QLD (outside of Melbourne - and thank god we have them otherwise our TV deal would be even worse). V’Landys and League management apologists can’t use that excuse if it is something that the game could actually solve. Although, if the glorious leader’s thoughts on ‘rusted on AFL states’ are any indication we may never reach our potential.

3. All the excuses you have put forward doesn’t help your argument, it actually makes the idea of 6 again even more ill conceived. If there were concerns about quality or people retiring and nobody playing in the grades below, why would you then make a such a sudden change to the fabric of the game’s rules without any preparation or consultation. How idiotic is that?
Also, the argument about McDonalds is a false equivalence. If for example, they didn’t give anyone on the job training prior to starting then your example might hold water.

1 -

2019-Current still shows growth

Crowds 15,800 in 2019
2022 16,094

Profit 2019 $30m
Last year $45m

2019 TV
Ave 459,000 88m watched it on total

Too soon for actual figures but you can scroll back through the TV ratings on this page and see huge numbers currently

So again the game is trending in the right way, There are issues but there always will be it goes with the territory no Chair/CEO will be perfect

2 - Not really this is where the games strengths are and I don't think throwing away money to prop up growth Areas makes sense, you do but again that is speculation.

The fact Townsville, Newcastle, Wollongong and Canberra were able to have a champion team in the last 30 years is an achievement and justifies taking that route. Hopefully those other areas are able to put in good bids to sustain a team moving forward.

3 - Say you did that, Do you honestly think someone like Trent Barrett is going to find a way to bend the rules before Bellamy and Cam Smith? So giving them heads up likely has minor results.

So you never have gone to a Maccas, KFC or whatever and the person serving you needs to ask someone to help?

 

[Colk]

Tigers at Leichhardt is a better experience than Tigers at Homebush for me.

And I'll pay for what I enjoy

Would you pay $50 for the privilege? I don’t care what facilities or ground we are talking ( although in my opinion Leichhardt is a dump and that makes it a complete rip off) $50 is too much and makes no sense to charge that if you wanted to improve crowds.

 

[Colk]

1 -

2019-Current still shows growth

Crowds 15,800 in 2019
2022 16,094

Profit 2019 $30m
Last year $45m

2019 TV
Ave 459,000 88m watched it on total

Too soon for actual figures but you can scroll back through the TV ratings on this page and see huge numbers currently

So again the game is trending in the right way, There are issues but there always will be it goes with the territory no Chair/CEO will be perfect

2 - Not really this is where the games strengths are and I don't think throwing away money to prop up growth Areas makes sense, you do but again that is speculation.

The fact Townsville, Newcastle, Wollongong and Canberra were able to have a champion team in the last 30 years is an achievement and justifies taking that route. Hopefully those other areas are able to put in good bids to sustain a team moving forward.

3 - Say you did that, Do you honestly think someone like Trent Barrett is going to find a way to bend the rules before Bellamy and Cam Smith? So giving them heads up likely has minor results.

So you never have gone to a Maccas, KFC or whatever and the person serving you needs to ask someone to help?

1. Crowd growth is minute. Average is still way too low. Good work on the profit - maybe he should transfer to an accountancy role rather than running the game

2. This argument doesn’t make any sense. You on one hand state that we are a TV game but then you don’t add sides that would actually maximise your TV revenue. Also, that was your excuse why the fumbleball deal is higher but now you are saying that it would be insignificant- so which is it? Either it is a significant reason and you do something about it or you blame our terrible negotiation skills. It seems to me the game is full of excuses and has no ambition.

3. I agree that players and coaches bend the rules but as I stated beforehand why was it not possible to just clamp down on wrestling (which was the obvious reason for the 6 again). Why create a new rule which creates new problems (which were a lot greater than some wrestling) rather than solving the problems that were already there. Also, it didn’t do anything, coaches and players just found new ways to bend the rules so the 6 again implementation was a waste. Face the problem which was officiating of the rules head on rather than hoping some new spontaneous rule is somehow going to fix everything.

 

[Quicksilver]

Would you pay $50 for the privilege? I don’t care what facilities or ground we are talking ( although in my opinion Leichhardt is a dump and that makes it a complete rip off) $50 is too much and makes no sense to charge that if you wanted to improve crowds.

It's not a dump at all.

It's a manicured ground with a grass hill and grand stands in an affluent area of a rich city.

Go to a real dump and get back to me.