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Peter V'landys - New NRL/ARLC Chairman

Messages
14,822
They averaged above 10k before 1991 dude.

Have another look.

As for the other point, sounds like they did a great job of growing their fan base in the 1990s. Isn't that what you weirdos want?



They were in the top half of attendances 6/8 seasons LEAGUE WIDE up to their attempted relocation for the entire league dude, and the other two times were 9th and 10th out of 16.

Seems like they were better than most of the league including a shit ton of out of Sydney teams lol.
So in 82 seasons before the 90s they averaged more than 10k just five times.

They were one of the heavyweights on the field in the 90s.

Which clubs from out of Sydney drew smaller crowds?

Seagulls/Giants would have been one, but they played in NSW at Tweed Heads, which is a tiny town. Illawarra would have been another. Again, in a regional city.

Cowboys, Warriors, Broncos and Knights were much better supported than the Bears.

Raiders drew better attendances on six occasions in the 1990s.

Crushers got better crowds in 2 of their 3 seasons.

Storm drew more than them!

So seven clubs outside of Sydney drew more than North Sydney.

Chargers didn't play on the Gold Coast until 1996. They drew less than the Bears. So that's one from outside of NSW.

The other two who drew less than the Bears were from regional NSW.

Reds beat them in 1995.

Rams beat them in 1997.

Crowds for Reds and Rams dropped off when their existence came into question. Neither them nor the Chargers/Seagulls/Giants enjoyed onfield success.
 
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Wb1234

Referee
Messages
28,339
1990 - 6th out of 11 Sydney Clubs for attendance
1991 - 1st
1992 - 6th
1993 - 4th
1994 - 2nd
1995 - 3rd
1996 - 5th
1997 - 4th
1998 - 3rd

One of the best attended Sydney clubs of the 1990s dude. Certainly had a pretty large fanbase for the time in Sydney.

Historically pure trash in terms of fans but David Hill turned them into a very well supported side compared to other Sydney outfits and no bizarre historically inaccurate reading of the past will change that.
They almost beat the
premiers the panthers in the prelim final

like Balmain In 89 if they win that gf they probably would still be around today unmerged
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,714
I do love how all these LU experts have declared Redcliffe a failure before a ball has even been kicked.

Especially those that know f**k all about QLD footy and it's history.
Personally I wouldn't have gone with the Dolphins. I think we should have gone with a team based south of the Brisbane river, however I certainly don't think Redcliffe will be a failure.... there is enough demand in SEQLD that you could probably base a team on Russell island and it would be well supported.
 

Iamback

Coach
Messages
18,859
Personally I wouldn't have gone with the Dolphins. I think we should have gone with a team based south of the Brisbane river, however I certainly don't think Redcliffe will be a failure.... there is enough demand in SEQLD that you could probably base a team on Russell island and it would be well supported.

The problem with going in South of the River, You are approaching on GC territory and they are the basket case atm.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
13,706
The problem with going in South of the River, You are approaching on GC territory and they are the basket case atm.
The northern corridor is the fastest growing area in qld... might even be in aus, sunshine coast and moreton bay is booming, i get the need for another team in QLD too, it also means that there is more pathways for qld kids to get to 1st grade locally, and also picking the dolphins, leaves the titans some breathing room in distance, if the went with easts tigers bid, it would have cut into both bronx and titans for players/sponsors/fans... so a slight tangent being furthest away from both worked as it was also the area most people were migrating to
 
Messages
14,822
Personally I wouldn't have gone with the Dolphins. I think we should have gone with a team based south of the Brisbane river, however I certainly don't think Redcliffe will be a failure.... there is enough demand in SEQLD that you could probably base a team on Russell island and it would be well supported.
There is a team on Russel Island. The Russell Island Stingrays.
 
Messages
14,822
The problem with going in South of the River, You are approaching on GC territory and they are the basket case atm.
Bullshit.

Gold Coast don't own Logan and the Redlands. They've never done much to appeal to Logan and the Redlands. They chose Tweed Heads over the people of Logan. The only area of Logan they've tried to promote themselves to is the outer southern suburbs that were part of Gold Coast before Beattie amalgamated the councils in 2007. They run some clinics at Flagstone Tigers, but that's further away from the Logan CBD than the Logan CBD is from the Brisbane CBD.

Maybe you should leave discussion on Queensland clubs to people who live in Queensland?
 
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t-ba

Post Whore
Messages
57,934
So in 82 seasons before the 90s they averaged more than 10k just five times.

Seems this tune is a bit different than your earlier falsehoods mate.

Here I am thinking you wanted clubs that grew their fan bases.

82 seasons? Crowd stats only go back to the 1950s. So I guess another fast and loose interpretation of the facts is in order from you then hey?

Giants/Seagulls/Chargers drew shit but I somehow doubt you'd hold that against the Titans, in fact, you don't later on.

They were one of the heavyweights on the field in the 90s.

They were an above average club who never even played in a grand final lol. Hardly the bloody Raiders, not even St George tier.

Solid revisionism once more.
Which clubs from out of Sydney drew smaller crowds?

Several, as you point out later on.

Seagulls/Giants would have been one, but they played in NSW at Tweed Heads, which is a tiny town. Illawarra would have been another. Again, in a regional city.

Cowboys, Warriors, Broncos and Knights were much better supported than the Bears.

Excuses Excuses mate.

Seagulls Stadium was in the Gold Coast Metro area, imagine letting an imaginary line stopping you from supporting the only top-flight team that has ever existed in your city lol.

Raiders drew better attendances on six occasions in the 1990s.

So a club that was the second best side of the era outdrew Norths on 6 of the 10 seasons that make up the 1990s?

That's ahh...hardly the ringing endorsement you think it is mate.

Crushers got better crowds in 2 of their 3 seasons.

Storm drew more than them!

So seven clubs outside of Sydney drew more than North Sydney.

Chargers didn't play on the Gold Coast until 1996. They drew less than the Bears. So that's one from outside of NSW.

The other two who drew less than the Bears were from regional NSW.

Reds beat them in 1995.

Rams beat them in 1997.

Crowds for Reds and Rams dropped off when their existence came into question. Neither them nor the Chargers/Seagulls/Giants enjoyed onfield success.

Single year drops come up here a lot which is rather bizarre.

You seem to be cherrypicking single years out here to make your point. Well, I guess it's better than the outright falsehoods you were pointing out earlier lol.

Norths were one of the biggest clubs in terms of support in Sydney before getting the axe. Whether or not you like that doesn't mean you get to engage in make believe narratives about it mate lol.
 
Messages
14,822
Giants/Seagulls/Chargers drew shit but I somehow doubt you'd hold that against the Titans, in fact, you don't later on.

Giants/Seagulls were a NSW club, based in Tweed Heads. That's in NSW. Its inclusion in the metropolitan Gold Coast area is tenuous at best and doesn't reflect the cultural divide between people from Gold Coast and Tweed, hence the reason the Giants were called Gold Coast-Tweed.

They were an above average club who never even played in a grand final lol. Hardly the bloody Raiders, not even St George tier.

They regularly played in the finals and had a very strong roster. South Sydney have only played in one GF since 2015, but they've been heavyweights over the last four years.

Several, as you point out later on.

Bullshit!

They only beat the Reds, Rams and Crushers when it was evident those teams were going to be culled, so fans gave up. Ignoring this factor would be as disingenuous as claiming North Sydney's poor crowds in 1999 is proof they only had 8,500 fans.

Excuses Excuses mate.

Seagulls Stadium was in the Gold Coast Metro area, imagine letting an imaginary line stopping you from supporting the only top-flight team that has ever existed in your city lol.

It wasn't in the City of Gold Coast and wasn't even in the state of Queensland. If you think the average Queenslander wants to be associated with a team from New South Wales then you don't have a clue. It was also a poor team that sat at the bottom of the ladder throughout its existence.

The only Queenslanders who bothered to travel over the border were the old buggers who wanted to have a spin on the pokies when gaming machines were prohibited at licenced venues in Queensland. Once they were legalised up here Tweed Heads Leagues went bust because they no longer had Queenslanders willing to travel into their hillbilly town.

The Chargers didn't have much support as they inherited a shit squad from the lowly Seagulls.

So a club that was the second best side of the era outdrew Norths on 6 of the 10 seasons that make up the 1990s?

That's ahh...hardly the ringing endorsement you think it is mate.

Look at the stats. Bears drew 710 extra fans in 1991, no doubt boosted by having fans from 10 other Sydney clubs travelling to NSO to see their teams play North Sydney. The Raiders couldn't rely on travelling fans and were in a small regional city. The other three times Bears best the Raiders was during the Super League years. Fans in Brisbane and Canberra turned away from the game. In the time period we're talking about the Raiders won in 1990 and 1994. In the other years they weren't much better on the field than the Bears.

1990 Raiders 13542 vs 9858
1991 Bears 15297 vs 14587
1992 Raiders 11103 vs 10500
1993 Raiders 14569 vs 12264
1994 Raiders 17392 vs 15116
1995 Raiders 15683 vs 11514
1996 Bears 10963 vs 10440
1997 Bears 11713 vs 11622
1998 Bears 11093 vs 9826
1999 Raiders 12057 vs 8566

Single year drops come up here a lot which is rather bizarre.

You seem to be cherrypicking single years out here to make your point. Well, I guess it's better than the outright falsehoods you were pointing out earlier lol.
I focussed on the 90s as that's when Bears consistently drew their best attendances.

Norths were one of the biggest clubs in terms of support in Sydney before getting the axe. Whether or not you like that doesn't mean you get to engage in make believe narratives about it mate lol.
They had no home ground and wanted to relocate to a regional city. The other regional club that was next to Sydney was the Steelers, who drew shit crowds, were destitute and merged with St George.

Of the two Sydney clubs that were north of the harbour, Manly were the most popular, drawing better attendances than the Bears in all years throughout the 90s except 1991, 1994 and 1998.
 
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Iamback

Coach
Messages
18,859
Bullshit.

Gold Coast don't own Logan and the Redlands. They've never done much to appeal to Logan and the Redlands. They chose Tweed Heads over the people of Logan. The only area of Logan they've tried to promote themselves to is the outer southern suburbs that were part of Gold Coast before Beattie amalgamated the councils in 2007. They run some clinics at Flagstone Tigers, but that's further away from the Logan CBD than the Logan CBD is from the Brisbane CBD.

Maybe you should leave discussion on Queensland clubs to people who live in Queensland?

Where did I say GC owned it?

GC are the worst performing team in the NRL across many metrics, So why put another team down there?

There isn't a team between Brisbane and Townsville so it seems like a no brainer really
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
13,706
Where did I say GC owned it?

GC are the worst performing team in the NRL across many metrics, So why put another team down there?

There isn't a team between Brisbane and Townsville so it seems like a no brainer really
Oh my god... can we please stop talking to this moron... the two headed QLDr will continue to dribble out his alftables stats till the cows come home... all in all we are now stupider for listen to him... let the dribbler dribble and he'll eventually fk off to another thread about hating pvl or wheres my singapore scorpions thread when we don't reply.. otherwise rain man here will just keep on spewing his anti everything nsw at us... its sickening having to look at a new post to find out its grotd, releasing bile on the history of something he never lived in or watched growing up... stats tell all bullshit
 

Iamback

Coach
Messages
18,859
Oh my god... can we please stop talking to this moron... the two headed QLDr will continue to dribble out his alftables stats till the cows come home... all in all we are now stupider for listen to him... let the dribbler dribble and he'll eventually fk off to another thread about hating pvl or wheres my singapore scorpions thread when we don't reply.. otherwise rain man here will just keep on spewing his anti everything nsw at us

He does make a tree stump seem intelligent
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
13,706
He does make a tree stump seem intelligent
Seriously is there any delineation between the name of this thread... and any garbage grotd speaks of... wtf has any of this got to with PVL?.... Bears attendance fkn please
 

t-ba

Post Whore
Messages
57,934
Giants/Seagulls were a NSW club, based in Tweed Heads. That's in NSW. Its inclusion in the metropolitan Gold Coast area is tenuous at best and doesn't reflect the cultural divide between people from Gold Coast and Tweed, hence the reason the Giants were called Gold Coast-Tweed.

Ah yes, Tweed Heads, a place that definitely is not just a continuation of Cooly.

And the Seagulls club, definitely not built right next to Queensland because of its ease of access to the state without Pokies at the time.

Pull the other one mate it plays jingle bells lol.

They regularly played in the finals and had a very strong roster. South Sydney have only played in one GF since 2015, but they've been heavyweights over the last four years.

2015.

Solid cherry pick.

What happened the year before?

Bullshit!

They only beat the Reds, Rams and Crushers when it was evident those teams were going to be culled, so fans gave up. Ignoring this factor would be as disingenuous as claiming North Sydney's poor crowds in 1999 is proof they only had 8,500 fans.

Excuses a million for out of Sydney clubs.

Then explain how they outdrew the Warriors in 1998 mate. They were guaranteed a license by the NRL.


It wasn't in the City of Gold Coast and wasn't even in the state of Queensland. If you think the average Queenslander wants to be associated with a team from New South Wales then you don't have a clue. It was also a poor team that sat at the bottom of the ladder throughout its existence.

So we have to respect the rights of Queenslanders to not cross an imaginary line but the right of Sydneysiders with clubs older than living memories from distinct regions can't have their distinct geographically divided regions respected?

lol.

The only Queenslanders who bothered to travel over the border were the old buggers who wanted to have a spin on the pokies when gaming machines were prohibited at licenced venues in Queensland. Once they were legalised up here Tweed Heads Leagues went bust because they no longer had Queenslanders willing to travel into their hillbilly town.

The Chargers didn't have much support as they inherited a shit squad from the lowly Seagulls.

People regularly travelled between the two for work and leisure and still do. There are literal suburban streets where one side in NSW and the other one is QLD lol.

Look at the stats. Bears drew 710 extra fans in 1991, no doubt boosted by having fans from 10 other Sydney clubs travelling to NSO to see their teams play North Sydney. The Raiders couldn't rely on travelling fans and were in a small regional city. The other three times Bears best the Raiders was during the Super League years. Fans in Brisbane and Canberra turned away from the game. In the time period we're talking about the Raiders won in 1990 and 1994. In the other years they weren't much better on the field than the Bears.

1990 Raiders 13542 vs 9858
1991 Bears 15297 vs 14587
1992 Raiders 11103 vs 10500
1993 Raiders 14569 vs 12264
1994 Raiders 17392 vs 15116
1995 Raiders 15683 vs 11514
1996 Bears 10963 vs 10440
1997 Bears 11713 vs 11622
1998 Bears 11093 vs 9826
1999 Raiders 12057 vs 8566


I focussed on the 90s as that's when Bears consistently drew their best attendances.

Fans turned away from the game. Again, a million excuses for Non Sydney clubs.

Yeah, a side that won three premierships could barely beat a side in terms of attendance that couldn't make a grand final lol. This is not the slam dunk you think it is mate.

They had no home ground and wanted to relocate to a regional city. The other regional club that was next to Sydney was the Steelers, who drew shit crowds, were destitute and merged with St George.

They had no homeground because of the NRL criteria dude. A criteria which has been largely abandoned since Saints moved back to Kogarah a couple of years later.

The other regional club next to Sydney is a destitute basketcase (Newcastle) more often that not but I somehow doubt you'd want them kicked out.
 

t-ba

Post Whore
Messages
57,934
Oh my god... can we please stop talking to this moron... the two headed QLDr will continue to dribble out his alftables stats till the cows come home... all in all we are now stupider for listen to him... let the dribbler dribble and he'll eventually fk off to another thread about hating pvl or wheres my singapore scorpions thread when we don't reply.. otherwise rain man here will just keep on spewing his anti everything nsw at us... its sickening having to look at a new post to find out its grotd, releasing bile on the history of something he never lived in or watched growing up... stats tell all bullshit

It's fun.
 

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