Phil Gould

[BennyV]

Agree with most of what you are saying.

And I wasn’t directly comparing Mary and Gould, I realise their roles are different.

But given the dissatisfaction of fans with regards to the Mary era (and yes this extends to Doust as well), and the number of Sack Mary threads on this forum, I don’t understand why everyone thinks Gould walks on water when in reality the Panthers results during his reign aren’t that much better then ours?

And he was accountable for hiring and firing coaches, players, staff etc. He even had a had in coaching the team from all accounts.

So ultimately, the bulk of the Panthers results have to fall on him.

Because Mary’s winning percentage out of context isn’t the reason fans want him gone. For example, if those wins came towards the back end of the season and showed a build in the teams strengths over the course of the year, there’d probably be less unrest. If that winning percentage included more than 1 finals game in 4 years, we’d probably be less intent on him buggering off. If he didn’t make the same mistake year after year and show not only notability to learn from his mistakes, but no intention of trying to develop himself as a coach, then there may be a few less ‘sack Mary’ threads.

And yes, Panthers results up until last year ultimately fall on Gus. So the improvements in junior pathways, balancing of salary cap, profitability of the club, improvement in game day experience, upgrade in facilities and so on are all on him. For mine, the mistake he made was hiring Griffin after Cleary was removed, but unlike Mary he became aware of the fact that he could do better elsewhere and took action. But considering all those other areas that he has improved are areas that our club in failing in, it’s not hard to see why many of us believe he could add immense value to our club.

So again, completely incomparable and to try and talk down Gus (or talk up Mary, I’m still not quite sure which angle you are coming from) based purely on win percentages of the 2 clubs is crazy.

 

[giboz71]

Because Mary’s winning percentage out of context isn’t the reason fans want him gone. For example, if those wins came towards the back end of the season and showed a build in the teams strengths over the course of the year, there’d probably be less unrest. If that winning percentage included more than 1 finals game in 4 years, we’d probably be less intent on him buggering off. If he didn’t make the same mistake year after year and show not only notability to learn from his mistakes, but no intention of trying to develop himself as a coach, then there may be a few less ‘sack Mary’ threads.

And yes, Panthers results up until last year ultimately fall on Gus. So the improvements in junior pathways, balancing of salary cap, profitability of the club, improvement in game day experience, upgrade in facilities and so on are all on him. For mine, the mistake he made was hiring Griffin after Cleary was removed, but unlike Mary he became aware of the fact that he could do better elsewhere and took action. But considering all those other areas that he has improved are areas that our club in failing in, it’s not hard to see why many of us believe he could add immense value to our club.

So again, completely incomparable and to try and talk down Gus (or talk up Mary, I’m still not quite sure which angle you are coming from) based purely on win percentages of the 2 clubs is crazy.

Well I’m certainly not talking up Mary. I know very well his limitations as a coach.

But I still don’t see the love for Gus given all the issues in that club (and the fact they are currently paying 3 coaches). Yes he’s achieved positives as an Administrator but he’s been the cause of some pretty serious issues at the club as well. Which at the end of the day has led to pretty ordinary on field results as I’ve pointed out.

All good, as always we don’t have to agree on everything. Will be interesting to see where he ends up .

 

[BennyV]

Well I’m certainly not talking up Mary. I know very well his limitations as a coach.

But I still don’t see the love for Gus given all the issues in that club (and the fact they are currently paying 3 coaches). Yes he’s achieved positives as an Administrator but he’s been the cause of some pretty serious issues at the club as well. Which at the end of the day has led to pretty ordinary on field results as I’ve pointed out.

All good, as always we don’t have to agree on everything. Will be interesting to see where he ends up .

Happy to agree to disagree, but what serious issues is he the cause of? The current coaching scenario has been fairly well recorded as the board going over his head for Ivan, when Gould had Bennett effectively locked in. What other serious issues has he caused?

 

[giboz71]

Happy to agree to disagree, but what serious issues is he the cause of? The current coaching scenario has been fairly well recorded as the board going over his head for Ivan, when Gould had Bennett effectively locked in. What other serious issues has he caused?

He’s hired and fired coaches who dared to disagree with him. From all accounts, he was constantly at training which would have undermined what the head coach was doing.

The Panthers were doing fine when Hook was at the helm. They were close to the best side in the comp at the mid point last year.

And then he sacks the guy?

Don’t see how that is a positive thing for an Administrator to do. And he clearly couldn’t work with Cleary as he was in no position to have any influence on the team (a condition that Cleary stipulated) which clearly Gus would not accept, hence he’s gone now.

It’s a recipe for disaster no matter which clubs he ends up as his ego and profile will alway try and overrule what the coach is trying to do.

 

[BennyV]

He’s hired and fired coaches who dared to disagree with him. From all accounts, he was constantly at training which would have undermined what the head coach was doing.

The Panthers were doing fine when Hook was at the helm. They were close to the best side in the comp at the mid point last year.

And then he sacks the guy?

Don’t see how that is a positive thing for an Administrator to do. And he clearly couldn’t work with Cleary as he was in no position to have any influence on the team (a condition that Cleary stipulated) which clearly Gus would not accept, hence he’s gone now.

It’s a recipe for disaster no matter which clubs he ends up as his ego and profile will alway try and overrule what the coach is trying to do.

Cleary was fired when it was found out that he was in discussions with Souffs.

Best team in the comp at a certain point in the season doesn’t mean anything. We were the best team in the comp early last year, that doesn’t make Mary a good coach. I personally think his biggest mistake was opting for Hook in the first place, but he recognised that they weren’t likely to win the ultimate prize under Griffin so he took action. Our club could do with that sort of ruthlessness.

 

[Dragon for life]

You boys just resigned your coach, why do you need another.

So that Gould can sack his arse.

 

[Gareth67]

That kick was just fooking horrible and the try as well .

 

[Como Connection]

No chance Gould for the Dragons.
CC

 

[dragonreddy]

He’s hired and fired coaches who dared to disagree with him. From all accounts, he was constantly at training which would have undermined what the head coach was doing.

The Panthers were doing fine when Hook was at the helm. They were close to the best side in the comp at the mid point last year.

And then he sacks the guy?

Don’t see how that is a positive thing for an Administrator to do. And he clearly couldn’t work with Cleary as he was in no position to have any influence on the team (a condition that Cleary stipulated) which clearly Gus would not accept, hence he’s gone now.

It’s a recipe for disaster no matter which clubs he ends up as his ego and profile will alway try and overrule what the coach is trying to do.

I think you are giving Griffin way too much kudos here, he had lost players through feuding with them and is basically another coach who has won nothing ,but a lot of people feel sorry for him because he got sacked.
I heard that he isn't an easy person to get on with and is actually quite negative at times .

As far as Gould turning up to training ,if the coach was confident in what he was doing he wouldn't feel undermined ,I wish someone would keep a check on our coaching team ,because they obviously need plenty of help.
Gould coming to SAINTS would be the best thing to happen to the club since we merged ,but it wont happen because we have too many people that know he would call them on their shit performance.
He would bring some forward vision to the club instead the inward looking closed shop attitude we have now ,and would also drag them into this century as to how to run the club as a decent commercial enterprise.

The club has been running in mud since we won in 2010, so his expertise would be well utilized .

On a side note Cleary has built himself a mythical career as well has managed to win SFA in 13 years ,and for mine runs ill-disciplined teams.,yet has been lauded as a great tactician.

 

[True_Believer]

In Gus, I trust: the Panthers needed $10m, Packer stepped in to save the club

When Penrith Panthers chairman Don Feltis approached Phil Gould to return to the club he once played for and then coached, he wanted him to be director of coaching.

Within weeks, Gould discovered that turning around a struggling football side was the least of his problems. Keeping the doors open suddenly became the priority.

The Panthers Group, which at that point owned 14 licensed premises across the country, was precariously close to insolvency with debts nudging nearly $110 million.

Falling drink and food revenues, poker machine taxes, smoking bans and previous mismanagement had taken its toll.

Most people would’ve walked away. Others would’ve gone cap in hand to the NRL and asked for assistance. At the very least, a firesale of the Panthers’ assets would’ve been initiated.

Instead, Gould picked up the phone to one of the richest men in the country, James Packer.

“I asked for all the documents and took them to James for his legal and financial people to run through them and give me some advice,” Gould recalls.

“When they came back, they said the private equity firm who had taken over the debt were in their rights to call in the loan. James negotiated our way out of that position. He negotiated an 18-month settlement which gave us time to repay that money. They wanted an upfront payment, which we didn’t have, but James offered to pay that on our behalf.”

The payment was more than $10 million. Ashtray change for Packer at the time but a lifesaver for the Panthers.

Gould first met Packer in the 1990s when he left Penrith to coach the Roosters. Packer was on the Roosters board at the time under all-powerful chairman Nick Politis.

Reflecting on that phone call, Packer says he had no hesitation in helping Gould or the Panthers.

“To me, Phil always gives more than he gets,” Packer tells the Herald. “The 2012 conversation about helping Penrith was easy. Phil asked for a loan for Penrith and offered security that exceeded the loan amount and promised personally that the loan would be repaid. That was enough for me.”

Would the Panthers have folded if not for Packer’s support?

“We were in very serious trouble,” Gould says. “I don’t know what would’ve become of the club. From that negotiated position, we could sell some of the 14 clubs that we owned at that time, retire some debt, and eventually got refinanced by the bank, which was a big day.”

Gould’s eight-year tenure as general manager of football ended earlier this week.

There are claims of a dramatic fallout with coach Ivan Cleary, and a power struggle with chairman David O’Neill because Gould wanted to bring Wayne Bennett to the club, but Gould says his job has simply been made “redundant”.

“If you go back, you will find quotes from me in the early stages saying exactly that,” Gould says. “I was asked, ‘What’s your goal?’ I would say, ‘That one day, my job becomes redundant. If I’ve done that, I’ve done my job well. Everything I’ve done in the past few years is now being done by people who are highly capable at what they do. This isn’t the first conversation I’ve had with the club along these lines.”

Nevertheless, Gould leaves a sizeable void. Few people have the same contact book as Gus. Few can pick up the phone to James Packer when they need help.

Gould’s detractors were this week easily forgetting the hard slog at Penrith when he first came on board, barely sleeping as he crisscrossed all over Sydney to meet stakeholders to save his club.

Those same detractors talked about the club failing to win a premiership in those eight years. Much reference is made to his so-called “five-year plan” to win a premiership but he says no such promise was ever made.

“Never said it,” he says bluntly. “The closest reference to it comes from the very early days when people were asking how precarious things were. I said, ‘It will take at least half a decade to turn this around’. Which was pretty accurate. We were never predicting a premiership in that time.

"In the first three years, we made the top four anyway. It was never about premierships and never did I say that. That’s just become a narrative created by the media and wherever I go, or wherever I’ve been, there are certain sections of the media that obviously take great joy in trying to either destabilise or criticise.”

Apart from financial instability, Gould also had a crisis with the NRL team’s salary cap.

In early 2012 he told the board that, by 2014, the Panthers faced the daunting possibility of having 12 players in the 25-man squad taking up to all but $600,000 of the salary cap.

Tough calls were made. Captain Luke Lewis was released to the Sharks. Michael Jennings was allowed to sign with the Roosters. They were Australian players but on huge back-ended deals that were going to cripple the club.

“They were decisions that had to be made,” Gould says. “Luke Lewis requested a release on a couple of occasions. I tried to talk him out of it several times but in the end he was at the point of his career where he wanted to play for a club that could win a premiership and we were going to struggle for a couple of years. In the end, I ceded to his wishes and allowed him to go. Other players were primarily salary cap driven.”

In that time, Gould has worked feverishly to ensure the Panthers have returned to being a team that relies mostly on its huge base of 8500 junior players, much like it did in 1991 when Gould coached the club to its maiden premiership.

“We’ve won six lower-grade titles in the past five or six years,” Gould says. “That’s the Penrith way. We’re a community club. It’s important that our football team represents the area. We’ve got back to those core values. We want to be a club of opportunity. When we first got there, we had 11 full-time staff at the football club. Now there are 56 people working in rugby league.”

Indeed, Gould’s proudest moment came in March 2016 when a $22 million state-of-the-art academy was opened behind Panthers Leagues Club. It was so impressive then prime minister Malcolm Turnbull phoned, wanting to be part of the opening ceremony.

Dressed in his trademark Panthers polo, Gould met him out the front, shook his hand and said, "Welcome to Penrith, prime minister".

It hasn't all been rosy. He hired coach Anthony Griffin — and then sacked him. He made Matt Moylan captain — and then was happy for him to sign with Cronulla.

“I don’t look at it like that,” Gould says. “A lot of what’s happened is just rugby league life. The decisions I’ve made, whether I can look back and say I was right or wrong or would’ve done them differently, is irrelevant. Because at the time I did what I thought was right in the best interests of the club. So, I don’t see that as tough. I just see it as doing your job. We couldn’t back away from tough decisions from time to time. There’s been some disappointments, but my overall feeling of the club is one of pride of what we’ve created.

"The people we have working in the organisation make Panthers what it is. I haven’t saved Panthers. I haven’t built Panthers. Those people have. I’ve just given these people the opportunity and there are plenty of talented and passionate people out there who have done a great job.”

 

[getsmarty]

Why the NRL wants Phil Gould at Moore Park

• 
  
  Rugby league luminary Phil Gould has been earmarked for a role at Rugby League Central.
  Peter V'landys says the NRL would be crazy not to draw on Phil Gould's experience and expertise as the code's modern-day godfather considers taking on a consultancy role at Rugby League Central.
  
  V'landys is hoping to lure Gould for "special projects", chiefly pathways and participation following the dual premiership-winning coach's success at rebuilding Penrith.
  
  "Look, the NRL will use any person that can give outcomes. We want outcomes for our game. Phil Gould is a rare person in that he's been in every part of the game," V'landys said on Monday.
  
  "He's been a player, he's been a coach, he's been an administrator and he's set up a pathway of excellence (at the Panthers).
  
  "So if you didn't use that experience, you would be mad. And if we can harvest some of the things that he can do for us, it would be a good thing."
  
  One sticking point in negotiations with the 62-year-old is Gould's commentary commitments for Nine.
  
  Another is Gould seemingly being set to become a player agent.
  
  "They'll be addressed at the time. Everyone's got a conflict in some way of fashion but we will give him projects where he hasn't got a conflict," V'landys said.
  
  "I don't think looking at the pathways or looking at the Pacific Islands or looking at New Zealand has got any conflict.
  
  "If he was to look at the refereeing situation or the bunker, then yes there may be a conflict because he comments on that, and the conflict is actually to our benefit because he may not be as critical.
  
  "But, look, the challenge is there for him to manage the conflicts. But at the end of it, I'm looking for outcomes. I'm looking at things that can improve the game.
  
  "If Phil Gould can improve the game, I make no apology that we'll use him."
  
  V'landys said the NRL spent $40 million on development pathways last year and that using Gould in that space could be invaluable.
  
  "Gus has shown a lot of passion about the pathways. That's where he inspires me," the ARLC chairman said at the launch of Indigenous Round in Sydney.
  
  "He has seen it all and he knows the mistakes we've made and we won't want to make the same mistakes again.
  
  "Last year $40 million was budgeted on pathways and if you do it wrong, that's $40 million that is not well spent."
  
  As well as trying to entice Gould across to Moore Park, V'landys revealed interim NRL chief executive Andrew Abdo was all but certain to become Todd Greenberg's permanent successor.
  
  "I want to take the opportunity to acknowledge the great work that Andrew Abdo's doing," he said.
  
  "I think that he's been exceptional and I'm sure you'll see a lot more of him."
  
  Australian Associated Press
  
  https://www.theleader.com.au/story/6852145/why-the-nrl-wants-phil-gould-at-moore-park/?cs=13068

 

[getsmarty]

Peter V'landys confirms NRL will seek out Phil Gould for consultancy role

Ed Chisholm
1 hour ago

Peter V'landys has all but confirmed the NRL's appointment of Phil Gould in an advisory role to help improve the game's elite pathways.

News Corp and Fairfax both reported on Monday the NRL had held discussions with Gould about coming onboard to consult on a range of issues, including the refereeing system and player participation and pathways.

One of the game's key voices and a man who has held positions at every level of the game as a player, coach, administrator and media personality, Gould's acquisition by the governing body is a long-time coming by many in the game.


As general manager of football at the Panthers before he left the club in 2018, Gould helped rescue the club from mountains of debt and transform them into the NRL's most productive talent nurseys.

However, suggestions he will work alongside NRL head of football Graham Annesley to help fix the NRL's referees, something he's long been critical of, has divided opinions.

"The NRL will use any person that can give outcomes. We want outcomes for our game," V'landys said of Gould's potential appointment in a consultancy capacity.

"Phil Gould is a rare person in that he's been in every part of our game. He's been a player, he's been a coach, he's been an administrator and he's set up pathways of excellence.

"If you didn't use that experience, you'd be mad. If we can harvest some of the things he can do for us it would be a good thing. But the commission hasn't approved this yet so I've got to be careful.

"They've approved one project and there'll be various projects but in particular my focus is on participation and the pathways and especially the Pacific Islands and New Zealand, so basically he will have a role in those sort of areas."

Gould's involvement in a media capacity through his commentary with Channel Nine and weekly column with Fairfax have triggered serious concerns over a potential conflict of interest should the former Panthers supremo suddenly be on the NRL payroll.

The Daily Telegraph's Phil Rothfield, who has long held a feud with Gould in the past, was one to call out his potential appointment.

"I think it's a massive conflict of interest, I don't see how the NRL can employ anyone who is a full-time employee of a television network and a newspaper. I just don't see how that could happen," Rothfield said on Big Sports Breakfast.

"Gus has done everything in rugby league, there's no question about that, but he's also had some stuff ups," he added.

"I'm talking about the St George Illawarra review, I'm talking about him sending Garth Brennan up to the Titans and Bryce Cartwright and Tyrone Peachey."

V'landys flagged the challenges of potential clashes of interest, but said it was something the NRL and Gould would look to balance out.

"Everyone's got conflicts in some way or fashion but we'll give him projects where he hasn't got a conflict," the ARLC commission chairman said.

"I don't think looking at the pathways, looking at the Pacific Islands and looking at New Zealand has got any conflict. If you were looking at the refereeing situation and The Bunker then there may be a conflict because he comments on that.

"The challenge is there for him to manage the conflicts but at the end of it I'm looking for outcomes, I'm looking for things that can improve the game.

"If Phil Gould can improve the game I make no apology that we'll use him."


https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/new...t-phil-gould-for-consultancy-role/ar-BB17exyS

 

[ChocOConnor]

Gould is a big mouth who tries to talk himself up like some footy genius.

Sure he knows how to win origins and comps but those days are long gone. It’s about agendas these days for Gus.

Warren Ryan is a master tactician but a shit person. He is what I would call a footy genius.
And BTW Gus never did a review at our club. I will go to my grave with what I know but he is full of shit and so is McGregor. Why is it they cannot even find a copy of the bloody thing

 

[Dragon David]

Gould is a big mouth who tries to talk himself up like some footy genius.

Sure he knows how to win origins and comps but those days are long gone. It’s about agendas these days for Gus.

Warren Ryan is a master tactician but a shit person. He is what I would call a footy genius.
And BTW Gus never did a review at our club. I will go to my grave with what I know but he is full of shit and so is McGregor. Why is it they cannot even find a copy of the bloody thing

Just the mention of Gould doing this for this club and that for that club etc people presume he has all of the answers and V'Landys thinks he has. Well the proof of the pudding is that he did not have the answers to improve things dramatically this year for us after he did the "review", the report of which our CEO cannot get his hands on!

 

[denis preston]

Just the mention of Gould doing this for this club and that for that club etc people presume he has all of the answers and V'Landys thinks he has. Well the proof of the pudding is that he did not have the answers to improve things dramatically this year for us after he did the "review", the report of which our CEO cannot get his hands on!

The fact that the report was verbal and assumably after his dialogue with the Board , he concluded that the coach was not the major problem anyhow, the whole place led by a inept board was the major issue.No wonder it hasn't got out ! We all here could have told them for free !

 

[getsmarty]

How nauseating are his anti - Dragons comments....never misses an opportunity to highlight an error...

 

[blue bags]

You boys just resigned your coach, why do you need another.