Plane Crashes Into World Trade Centre

This message has been deleted by the author.

 

This message has been deleted by the author.

 

[Willow]

Right now I feel like a bag of shit afterstaying up all night and then lugging around heavy equipment all day.
I started this thread because I just saw something that horrified me and I had to communicate it somehow. For a bit I was just chatting to myself as the drama unfolded and the tragedy turned into a catastrophe.

I come in here to today and I see that there's plenty ofdiscussion from a lot of people very sensitive to what has happened.
But I think a few have gone too far.

For the life of me, I cannot see the connection between the Terrorist attacks in the USA and the current boat people issue in Australia.
Also, we don't know who has committed this crime and yet plenty want to point the finger at Muslims. The same thing happened in the Oklahoma bombing and it was revealed later to be the work of White Supremists, not Arabs as was first reported.
So why do we want to 'kill them' or as one said, 'nuke them'... we don't even know who 'them' is.
I afraid these views are based on some twisted need for revenge. Even the US president has said as much. 'We will seek them out and they will pay'... this seems to have suddenly become US foreign policy.

The USA is calling this another Pearl Harbour. I have no idea where this will end but I have a feeling it will get a whole lot worse before it gets better. By that I mean, the USA may go to war over this and many thousands more innocents will die as the West demands blood.
And later, the terrorists will strike again in their act of revenge ...and so it goes on....

Obviously, the horror of the World Trade Centre disaster hasn't taught us a thing.

 

[Bomber]

More Oils! One of their best ever - look for the modified third verse

Conquistador of Mexico, the Zulu and the Navaho
The Belgians in the Congo......short memory
Plantation in Virginia, the Raj in British India
The deadline in South Africa......short memory
The story of El Salvador, the silence of Hiroshima
Destruction of Cambodia......short memory
Short memory, must have a, short memory
The sight of hotels by the Nile, the designated Hilton style
With running water specially bought......short memory
A smallish man Afghanistan, a watch dog in a nervous land
They're only there to lend a hand......short memory
Wake up in sweat at dead of night
And in the tents new rifles hey......short memory

Short memory, must have a, short memory

Planes go down in NYC, makes no f**king sense to me
One big huge catastrophe......short memory
The world is turning on its head, hundreds, thousands of innocents dead
Crawling under my bed......short memory
People all living in fear, panic in both hemispheres
Cannot even raise a cheer......short memory

Short memory, must have a, short memory

If you read the history books you'll see the same things happen again and again
Repeat repeat short memory they've all got it
When are we going to play it again
Got a short, got a short, got a short, got a short
They've got a short must have a short they've got a short aah
Short memory, they've got a.

 

[El Duque]

Sounds like you got as much sleep as me Willow

Nuke Bin Laden and his demented followers.

 

[legend]

What wold you suggest Willow? Surely acts like this must not go unpunished and a diplomatic solution will be seen as many as the west conforming to minorities and it will undermine our way of life, which has already been visibly shaken. This crime bears little resemblance to the Oklahoma bombing apart from the devestating loss of life. In the case of Oklahoma, the white supremicists targetted the government, not the public.

Reports have also surfaced that there were five terrorists per plane who hijacked them with knives and knives alone. I would be totally amazed if this was done by white supremicists and I am willing to lay a hefty wager that it wasn't them. The U.S has to act swiftly to show strength and that they are still in control. All the hijacked planes were the first flights out in the moring after spending the previous night in their respective airports. The cleaners are now prime suspects as accessories to this crime. There is a huge difference between synchronising four seperate flights with pinpoint accuracy and one bomb on a stationary target as in Oklahoma. We will wait and see what develops though.

Like it or not Willow, the events of the last 24 hours have changed the face of the world forever and it will become infinitely harder for people fleeing from countries whos actions undermine our way of life to gain asylum in Australia. John Howard has the overwhelming support of the Australian public and I have read on numuerous other sites where a correlation has been made between the two situations. Most beleive in light of the events, Australia did the right thing and I still stick by that. I beleive we need to toughen our stance even further. The rules have been changed by some lowlife scum.

 

[Willow]

El Duque: Yeah well, it was impossible to sleep. I have to apologise to you again for the chat room thingo. I was on auto pilot at the time and my fingers just had a brain of their own. I think you'll understand having been awake yourself at the time.

By 'nuking them', I assume you are talking figuratively. A Nuclear strike against 'them' would have consequences you and I can but imagine.

It's interesting how fearful people are right now.
Cuba, Palenstine, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Syria and Afganistan have all condemned the attack. The Palenstinian group who had earlier claimed responsibilty have turned out either class one wankers or the whole thing was made up by some trouble maker.
The Taliban have repeatedly denied any involvement despite being told to expect reprisals.
All these countries have good reason to be afraid. We have a President who may very well take El Duque's advice.

 

[legend]

Seriuosly though, which govt is going to condone the attacks and admit liability? It just means the yanks will have to pick the poker face from a number of different shady characters which will be no easy task, or they could just take their pick or bomb the lot of them. I do find it hard to beleive Iraq condemned the attacks though.

 

[Willow]

"In the case of Oklahoma, the white supremicists targetted the government, not the public. "
Well firstly, many children were killed but I think you misunderstand me. Thats wasn't my point. I was more concerned about the apportioning of blame before the facts come out.

IMO, the issue is not about who did it.
The real issue is why this has happened.

The wheel will just keep turning and the world will continue to become an even more violent place. The only constant I can see is that we will continue to point the finger in any direction but inwards.
Like or not Legend, we humans have failed again. We can't get on well enough with each other and appeared doomed to repeat past mistakes... only on a grander scale.

 

[mud n blood]

May the souls of the victims rest peacefully.
May the family and friends of those who perished mourn and recover quickly.
May revenge for this heinous crime be swift, hard and effective.

Mike - 12/9/01
(aka mud n blood)

 

[G@v]

Revenge may be swift, it might be hard, but it won't be effective.

I'm more interested in what bringsanyperson to want toinflict such devastation and pain on so many people.

 

[legend]

I understand what the point was Willow but I am also quite confident the blame will be apportioned outside of the U.S.

As far as the reasons why it happened, well take your pick.

The wheel will keep on turning. It has been happening for thousands of years. From the time Moses fled the Egyptians and so on. Willow, if you want my brutally honest opinion I will give it to you. I beleive the fundamentalist muslims are trying to convert as many christians as they can and for me as a Catholic, that is a scary thing. They use subversion as a tactic and they are still a minority in western europe although they are trying to infiltrate through the eastern states such as Yugoslavia. It is also the reason Albanians were fighting the Serbs. The Serbs are Christian and the Albanians are muslim. Russia also faces the same probelems. Chechnya is a muslim state who also wage their own war against orthodox Russia. Both the Albanians and the Chechnyans want their own country under what premise other than being muslim, I don't know. I actually saw an article on sixty minutes a few years back about an orthodox priest who was heading to Yugoslavia to stop the infiltration of muslims into western Europe. The land that both seek does not belong to them. It would be akin to any ethnic race asking for Canberra to be called their own country purely because of the population they have in Australia. Here in NSW, a muslim demanded his own seat in parliament. How dare they and why should they be exempt from the rules everyone else have to abide by?

How about the two Australian aid workers in Afhganistan who are more than likely going to face the death penalty for simply holding a bible? These are the same people who destroyed two bhuddist monuments that had stood for more than a thousand years. They have no tolerance and are probably the most racist of all countries.What about what the Indonesians did to the East Timorese and the people of Aceh a couple of years back? Mass genocide and it was muslims against Catholics again. There is also the Hezbollah(party of god) who are muslims backed by Iran and they wage war on the Jews with devestating effects on the Lebanese Catholic community after the reprisals from Jews quite often miss their targets. You also have the muslims who have a direct link to Bin Laden in the Philippines who are waging a campaign against a Catholic governmentand a predominantly Catholic race. Thank God for South America. So in light of all this, I think I have a reason to dislike fundamentalist muslims. What do you think?

 

[El Duque]

Willow,you're cool mate.
Re:Nuking
If it's proven Osama Bin Laden did this and the Afghans protect him,I say f**k them and just nuke the pricks.

 

[Eelectric]

And later, the terrorists will strike again in their act of revenge ...and so it goes on....
Very true, but let me tell you something mate, if you think diplomacy is going to stop themthen you are indeedvery naive.

So why do we want to 'kill them' or as one said, 'nuke them'... we don't even know who 'them' is. I afraid these views are based on some twisted need for revenge

Mate you can shove your pompous remarks where the sun don't shine. Yeah, I said nuke em and I meant it. I have already explained what I meant by that, a collabaritive multi country effort tohunt them down and exterminate them. As for who "them" is, I didn't say cause I don't know but unlike you I never even mentioned Arabs so bugger off.

Revenge, absolutely, I am fed up with these cowards training in known locations, sheltered by known governments, threatening and carrying out continual random surprise acts of terrorism against innocents, creating fear and mayhemand all the whilethumbing their noses at the rest of us with immunity. To deny this is to deny the last 20 years of history. Get real will ya. These groups have been know for years, they have already been identified and have even themselves gleefully claimed responsibility for past attacks. Even if they weren't directly involved in this particular actwho cares, thev'e already acknowledged responsibility for others. When they find out who did this one they may as well use the current feelingto clean out the lot of the known groups in one go while their at it. Say what you like, you have your right to express your opinion,but I have my right to mine and I feel bloody justified andentitled to it. Stick to stating your opinions and stay the f**k away from commenting on mine.

 

[Willow]

Well Legend, as I said mate. A lot of people are very sensitive to this issue and it shows that we have a lot of thinkers here. Whether thats a good thing or not, I'm not entirely sure

.
Other footy forums are giving this issue a momentary glance while this place seems be able to attract 100 responses in about 15 hours.

I have to tell you though, your last post only further enforces my point.
Sooner or later, we as a species have to learn to find a different way. IMO, standing behind a religious ideal is not the way to find peace. History proves that.

My point is, and always will be: why did this happen? The base reason... not the reactionists reason. What sort of bullshit is going on in this world forpeople to want to inflict harm like this upon others?

I'm sure that if everyone in this discussion were in NYC right now, we would all be down helping other volunteers to remove rubble if we were allowed to do so. We would see plenty of suffering and I think we would be more concerned about the victims rather than seeking revenge. Moreover, we would be never want to see this happen again.

Sorry if my point is percieved as a naive one, but I think more killing only serves to see it happen again.

El Duque: Ok nuke them... start a nuclear war. Then what? Think we got a refugee problem now? You aint seen nothing if you think nuking them is a solution.

 

[Willow]

Eelectric, I'm not going to engage in petty name calling with you or anybody.

You're entitled to your opinion and I am to mine.

If you are offended by my disagreeing with you then thats your problem.

 

[G@v]

How many revenge attacks are some of you people prepared for, and to what extent?

Unless you want to annihilateENTIRE nations and EVERY sympathiser of those nations, your revenge has no effect other than to cause an escalation of worldwide terror. Is that what we want?

 

[Eelectric]

I don't give a fig if you agree or disagree with my opinion, your disagreemt is totally irrelevant to me.I havealready achnoweldged your right to your own opinion and have no trouble with you expressing it.WhatI did takeexception towas your self righteousattempt toridicule and belittle mine. In expressing your own views there is no need toresort to denigrating others,you could have quite easily made your views clear without indulging in the high & mightyreference to mine.

 

[Eelectric]

revenge has no effect other than to cause an escalation of worldwide terror. Is that what we want?
Isn't that what just happened, what do you call it, an isolated incidence?

 

[G@v]

I'm talking of an escalation of attacks on top of yesterdays. Unimaginable attrocities could be the order of the day in the coming years. Not tens of thousands but possibly hundreds of thousands of victims.