Players refusing to sing the National anthem in protest

[unforgiven]

Their predecessors were victims.

Slight difference.

That is just plain wrong, there are many people still alive that have suffered the injustices of this countries policies towards indigenous people.

 

[DC_fan]

So we can move on from the current anthem?

To be honest I wouldn’t care if that happened.

 

[unforgiven]

I knew someone would come on here and say that. You really don’t have any idea in what you are talking about. You paint a face on somebody you don’t know anything about, just to push your own agenda.

That really made me laugh!

 

[magpie4ever]

How would you?

What do you think they were doing?

It's considered the oldest culture in the world.

They were able to survive for that long living fairly sustainably off the land with their own culture and set of beliefs and rituals.

Seems pretty successful to me. Lets see if what we're doing lasts that long.

I bet you $5 with interest it won't.

They were widely separated tribes living in the stone age.

Do you believe it would or should have remained that way in the age of colonisation?

Let's say in 1787, the average lifespan for Europeans was 45-50 years old; I dare say that the aboriginal lifespan was a lot lower than that.

No one on here has offered solutions, I have at least put forward ideas.

 

[BunniesMan]

That is just plain wrong, their are many people still alive that have suffered the injustices of this countries policies towards indigenous people.

If this is such a racist country why do so many asian immigrants do so well? The best schools are filled with outstanding asian kids. They go on to the best universities, and then become doctors, lawyers, etc.

Many of their parents fled war, poverty, oppression, and within one generation they are as successful as any other australians and more than many. How is this possible if this country is filled with raging white supremacists just looking to tear down any non white person?

Some horrific things were done to aboriginals since 1788, but at some point those horrors can no longer become excuses. At some point in history, just about every single group on earth has been victimised by another. You cannot keep using past injustices as an excuse for present failings.

This country provides services like public education, medicare, and centrelink welfare to every single person that needs it. It is one of the safest and richest countries on earth. Everybody has a chance to have at least a decent working class existence...if they want it.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Bunniesman has spoken.

/ thread.

 

[SBD82]

If this is such a racist country why do so many asian immigrants do so well? The best schools are filled with outstanding asian kids. They go on to the best universities, and then become doctors, lawyers, etc.

Many of their parents fled war, poverty, oppression, and within one generation they are as successful as any other australians and more than many. How is this possible if this country is filled with raging white supremacists just looking to tear down any non white person?

Some horrific things were done to aboriginals since 1788, but at some point those horrors can no longer become excuses. At some point in history, just about every single group on earth has been victimised by another. You cannot keep using past injustices as an excuse for present failings.

This country provides services like public education, medicare, and centrelink welfare to every single person that needs it. It is one of the safest and richest countries on earth. Everybody has a chance to have at least a decent working class existence...if they want it.

Not everyone has a Mensa IQ.

 

[unforgiven]

If this is such a racist country why do so many asian immigrants do so well? The best schools are filled with outstanding asian kids. They go on to the best universities, and then become doctors, lawyers, etc.

Many of their parents fled war, poverty, oppression, and within one generation they are as successful as any other australians and more than many. How is this possible if this country is filled with raging white supremacists just looking to tear down any non white person?

Some horrific things were done to aboriginals since 1788, but at some point those horrors can no longer become excuses. At some point in history, just about every single group on earth has been victimised by another. You cannot keep using past injustices as an excuse for present failings.

This country provides services like public education, medicare, and centrelink welfare to every single person that needs it. It is one of the safest and richest countries on earth. Everybody has a chance to have at least a decent working class existence...if they want it.

For starters, where did I say this was a racist country?

Many of the people you are talking about making a success despite past issues were allowed to bring their culture with them and participate in Australian society while keeping the culture from their homelands. The indigenous people in this country were not provided with that opportunity and policies were put in place to actively remove and isolate them from their cultural background.

The injustices towards the indigenous people in Australia are not in the past though, we are talking about people who lived through and still suffer from those injustices.

If the country is providing these services and one group is not getting that working class existence you speak of, then we need to examine the reasons they are not getting it. Implying indigenous people don't want to be successful isn't the reason.

 

[unforgiven]

They were widely separated tribes living in the stone age.

Do you believe it would or should have remained that way in the age of colonisation?

Let's say in 1787, the average lifespan for Europeans was 45-50 years old; I dare say that the aboriginal lifespan was a lot lower than that.

No one on here has offered solutions, I have at least put forward ideas.

Magpi4ever solutions, build a bridge and get over it. Well done mate, I'm sure you will be seen as the saviour of future generations!

 

[Sphagnum]

Well JAC is one of the first blues picked and probably the best winger on the field so yeah I don't like your chances. So I guess sooking more is your only alternative.

I don't sook about serious issues like this mate

 

[magpie4ever]

And what has led to those issues?

Historical poor treatment - history.

Lifestyle, location, drugs/alcohol - all of this is free will.

I definitely don't speak for aborigines but the ones I know are normal working class people - working, trying to pay off mortgages, under normal pressues of a modern economy, basically get on with life.

 

[Sphagnum]

Oh it's such a burden isn't it. Such a tough pill to swallow for us actual Australians.

Those bloody welfare cheats just keep shoving it down our throat every second of the goddamn day.

I know. Most normal people couldn't give a f**k whether someone sings the national anthem or not.

Sunrise told me to pick a side and be outraged though so here we are.

 

[magpie4ever]

Magpi4ever solutions, build a bridge and get over it. Well done mate, I'm sure you will be seen as the saviour of future generations!

C'mon champ, atleast be honest; I suggested more than that.

Solutions, do you have any? We know the problem, need solutions; now.

 

[Quicksilver]

They were widely separated tribes living in the stone age.

Do you believe it would or should have remained that way in the age of colonisation?

Let's say in 1787, the average lifespan for Europeans was 45-50 years old; I dare say that the aboriginal lifespan was a lot lower than that.

No one on here has offered solutions, I have at least put forward ideas.

I don't know. The ethical thing would be to ask them what they want. And if they do want to change things then ethically they have the right to do it on their terms (A treaty).

But of course in our mindset we (Europeans) have a monopoly on deciding what is ethical and what is best for people. We put "freedom" at the top of our values but don't mind pushing our virtues on to others.

Also, regarding the lifespan question- I wouldn't be surprised if they were doing better or equal to the Europeans of the time.

 

[Brisket Head]

I don’t want you to take this the wrong way - so please don’t - but what has happened, has happened. It can’t be undone.

I’m more concerned about their future. I would like to see their employment climb, their criminality diminish, & their overall race to become more of a positive force in society. Absolutely everybody wins in that situation - the issue between 99.9% of arguing parties is how to go about that.

What puts me at odds with most people is that I don’t believe hand outs & the promotion of a victim mentality will ever achieve that goal.

This post isn’t necessarily directed at you but…….


That’s true to a point. Some of the physical acts like murder and removal of kids from families can’t be undone, although it’s not really that long ago in the big picture of History and the emotional scars and humiliation suffered still exists. If anybody can’t see that they’re kidding themselves. Some of the Aborigine’s pain and anguish can be lessened and eased significantly. One way is through recognising the truth of history, which you and most people have done on here to a degree, but it needs to be genuine understanding and acceptance of the depth of pain they suffered and the realisation that it’s not just “Oh well that’s finished with, let’s move on”. That won’t cut it. The only way to enable “their employment climb, their criminality diminish, & their overall race to become more of a positive force in society” is by encouraging men like Walker, Addo-Carr and Chambers to voice their opinions on the anthem and how it affects them. Not jump and down with self-righteous crap like some of the posts on here. We do it by attending celebrations of their culture like Reconciliation Week and NAIDOC week and learning from Black Fellas. A lot of this is an invite for other cultures to come and share, others need to stop getting all defensive about it, they’re actually extending the olive branch. Celebrate it FFS! We do it by not labeling them all as “playing the victim” if they want to speak about their culture. (There’s no shortage of White Fellas playing victim and holding their hand out for money too, but nobody comes into places like this and portrays it a White Fella problem). We do it by calling out racism when it presents itself, as many posters are doing in this thread. Not all racism is overt racism. Much of it is misguided attempts to “do the right thing, ‘because we know better”. That’s what led to the Stolen Generation.


Just let these blokes make do what’s in their heart and mind. They’re not ramming it down anybody’s throat. Good on 'em. Learn from them. It’s not really that hard.

 

[Brisket Head]

double

 

[unforgiven]

Historical poor treatment - history.

Lifestyle, location, drugs/alcohol - all of this is free will.

I definitely don't speak for aborigines but the ones I know are normal working class people - working, trying to pay off mortgages, under normal pressues of a modern economy, basically get on with life.

It;s not historical poor treatment when the people who experienced that poor treatment are still alive and suffering the effects of that treatment.

 

[unforgiven]

C'mon champ, atleast be honest; I suggested more than that.

Solutions, do you have any? We know the problem, need solutions; now.

As ive said, it is not one persons job to come up with the solutions, that's a larger conversation for us to have as a society. I believe the intention of the players not singing the anthem is to push to start that conversation!

 

[unforgiven]

This post isn’t necessarily directed at you but…….


That’s true to a point. Some of the physical acts like murder and removal of kids from families can’t be undone, although it’s not really that long ago in the big picture of History and the emotional scars and humiliation suffered still exists. If anybody can’t see that they’re kidding themselves. Some of the Aborigine’s pain and anguish can be lessened and eased significantly. One way is through recognising the truth of history, which you and most people have done on here to a degree, but it needs to be genuine understanding and acceptance of the depth of pain they suffered and the realisation that it’s not just “Oh well that’s finished with, let’s move on”. That won’t cut it. The only way to enable “their employment climb, their criminality diminish, & their overall race to become more of a positive force in society” is by encouraging men like Walker, Addo-Carr and Chambers to voice their opinions on the anthem and how it affects them. Not jump and down with self-righteous crap like some of the posts on here. We do it by attending celebrations of their culture like Reconciliation Week and NAIDOC week and learning from Black Fellas. A lot of this is an invite for other cultures to come and share, others need to stop getting all defensive about it, they’re actually extending the olive branch. Celebrate it FFS! We do it by not labeling them all as “playing the victim” if they want to speak about their culture. (There’s no shortage of White Fellas playing victim and holding their hand out for money too, but nobody comes into places like this and portrays it a White Fella problem). We do it by calling out racism when it presents itself, as many posters are doing in this thread. Not all racism is overt racism. Much of it is misguided attempts to “do the right thing, ‘because we know better”. That’s what led to the Stolen Generation.

Just let these blokes make do what’s in their heart and mind. They’re not ramming it down anybody’s throat. Good on 'em. Learn from them. It’s not really that hard.

Mate awesome post, you summed it beautifully!

 

[magpie4ever]

I don't know. The ethical thing would be to ask them what they want. And if they do want to change things then ethically they have the right to do it on their terms (A treaty).

But of course in our mindset we (Europeans) have a monopoly on deciding what is ethical and what is best for people. We put "freedom" at the top of our values but don't mind pushing our virtues on to others.

Also, regarding the lifespan question- I wouldn't be surprised if they were doing better or equal to the Europeans of the time.

You will find I suggested a treaty, many posts before.

I think you find there is evidence to show this was not the case.