Polynesian players allowed into Origin

[The Great Dane]

Why is it ok for a PI to play Origin and their PI of heritage but not Kayln Ponga to play origin and for NZ?

Because rules for thee, but not for me.

The whole switching nations thing just makes the players come off as mercenaries after the highest paycheck instead of trying to represent their nation at the highest level, and given time it will have negative effects on international RL's image.
It's honestly embarrassing watching the 'proud Australian/Kiwi' until they don't make the team and suddenly they are a 'proud Samoan/Tongan/ whatever'.

 

[The Great Dane]

The inevitable logical conclusion of allowing people that don't declare for Australia to play SOO would be to turn it into a residents match. That would be about as successful as it was last time...

SOO isn't a glorified All Stars match, if you treat it as such you will kill it, and I don't know why you'd want to kill the golden goose.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Why is it ok for a PI to play Origin and their PI of heritage but not Kayln Ponga to play origin and for NZ?

You make a good point. @adamkungl raised the same point earlier in the thread. I guess if Origin and Kangaroo eligibility are not tied then it would be ok for born and bred NZ or English players to play Origin provided they meet Origin eligibility requirements which for them would mean:

• Having resided in NSW or QLD since prior to their 13th Birthday, or;
  
• Their father represented either NSW or QLD

I could get on board with that.

 

[Matua]

Out of interest, is a NZer who arrives on a scholarship at 14/15 never eligible for Origin now as the rules currently stand?

So a Ben Te'o situation can no longer happen?

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Out of interest, is a NZer who arrives on a scholarship at 14/15 never eligible for Origin now as the rules currently stand?

So a Ben Te'o situation can no longer happen?

Yes, I believe that's the case. You are eligible for Origin by birth, residence since prior to your 13th birthday or by the father-son rule (your father played Origin).

https://www.nrl.com/siteassets/documents/state-of-origin-eligibility-rules.pdf

 

[shinobi]

Australia is scared of losing all their island heritage players. They would kill to have players like Taumalolo and Taukeiaho eligible for origin. Just open the rules up to anyone who was born or lived in a state before the age of 13. That means it allows guys like Ponga who obviously identifies strongly with his Maori heritage to play for NZ and represent his heritage. You guys seem to not realise that Maori are Polynesian too and we are just as proud of our heritage as our Pasifika whanau (family).

 

[blue bags]

Australia is scared of losing all their island heritage players. They would kill to have players like Taumalolo and Taukeiaho eligible for origin. Just open the rules up to anyone who was born or lived in a state before the age of 13. That means it allows guys like Ponga who obviously identifies strongly with his Maori heritage to play for NZ and represent his heritage. You guys seem to not realise that Maori are Polynesian too and we are just as proud of our heritage as our Pasifika whanau (family).

Taumalolo was picked for Australians schoolboys' team, he could have played origin, kangaroos, but chose not to, which i great, the players choice

 

[Pommy]

Australia is scared of losing all their island heritage players. They would kill to have players like Taumalolo and Taukeiaho eligible for origin. Just open the rules up to anyone who was born or lived in a state before the age of 13. That means it allows guys like Ponga who obviously identifies strongly with his Maori heritage to play for NZ and represent his heritage. You guys seem to not realise that Maori are Polynesian too and we are just as proud of our heritage as our Pasifika whanau (family).

I don’t think Australia is scared of anything really. They could put out their third team and beat everyone else 9 out of 10 times.
Ponga was free to play for NZ he chose not to.

 

[adamkungl]

It's honestly embarrassing watching the 'proud Australian/Kiwi' until they don't make the team and suddenly they are a 'proud Samoan/Tongan/ whatever'.

How beige to you have to be to not realise people can be proud of multiple things

 

[The Great Dane]

How beige to you have to be to not realise people can be proud of multiple things

It's not hard when they are two fundamentally contradictory things, and if they're not fundamentally contradictory things then, in this case at least, they are meaningless.

Being Australian, (or for that matter Tongan, Samoan, or from anywhere else in the world) has to mean more than simply residing on the piece of land that is called 'Australia', i.e. it has to have a unifying ideological basis behind it, because if it ever doesn't then you effectively don't have a unified country, you've got a bunch of balkanising ethnic groups, and that is always a recipe for disaster.

 

[Pommy]

It's not hard when they are two fundamentally contradictory things, and if they're not fundamentally contradictory things then, in this case at least, they are meaningless.

Being Australian, (or for that matter Tongan, Samoan, or from anywhere else in the world) has to mean more than simply residing on the piece of land that is called 'Australia', i.e. it has to have a unifying ideological basis behind it, because if it ever doesn't then you effectively don't have a unified country, you've got a bunch of balkanising ethnic groups, and that is always a recipe for disaster.

On one hand I agree to an extent but on the other I think you are being far too simplistic.
I don’t want my son to regard himself as British or Vietnamese but as Australian and I think it’s important the community at large feel the same. I do however want him to be proud of where he’s come from and he is a dual national with two passports despite never having left Australia.
In my own case I feel a proud British, English, Australian in that order and I haven’t even become an Australian yet.

 

[The Great Dane]

On one hand I agree to an extent but on the other I think you are being far too simplistic.
I don’t want my son to regard himself as British or Vietnamese but as Australian and I think it’s important the community at large feel the same. I do however want him to be proud of where he’s come from and he is a dual national with two passports despite never having left Australia.
In my own case I feel a proud British, English, Australian in that order and I haven’t even become an Australian yet.

These are two separate questions, related, yet still different.

I'm not saying that people can't be proud of their ancestry or that they can't or shouldn't partake in their ethnic culture, there's no problem with any of those things. You can be from Britain, Vietnam, or anywhere else and still be 'Australian', that is not an issue. In fact all the most 'Aussie' people I know were all born overseas.

However at a certain point you have to choose which is more important to you because it's simply impossible to be both Australian and e.g. British, because Australian and British ideology and goals don't always correspond, and when that happens you can't truly be both because it's simply impossible. International sport is an example of that.

Sure it may seem like a trivial example, but it still has meaning and that meaning should be respected or it won't be taken seriously.

 

[shinobi]

O

I don’t think Australia is scared of anything really. They could put out their third team and beat everyone else 9 out of 10 times.
Ponga was free to play for NZ he chose not to.

Ok please name a 3rd string aussie side that would beat NZ and Tonga if they get first pick of heritage players.

And yes Ponga chose QLD and by that token Australia but if it wasnt tied in to eachother i believe he would pick QLD and NZ. He was one of the first to put his hand up for the Maori team and also has helped out Maori teams in NZ in past years.

 

[Pommy]

O


Ok please name a 3rd string aussie side that would beat NZ and Tonga if they get first pick of heritage players.

And yes Ponga chose QLD and by that token Australia but if it wasnt tied in to eachother i believe he would pick QLD and NZ. He was one of the first to put his hand up for the Maori team and also has helped out Maori teams in NZ in past years.

But they are tied together and he chose to represent Queensland instead. He’s a fully grown man and nobody had a gun to his head.

 

[blue bags]

when i waz picked on the extended bench for my team, cause bigger players were picked ahead of me, i went and played a full game in another team, our union team

 

[shinobi]

But they are tied together and he chose to represent Queensland instead. He’s a fully grown man and nobody had a gun to his head.

And now Fotuaika has decided hes a QLDer too after playing for junior kiwis and tonga. You really think his lifelong dream is to represent Australia?

 

[Pommy]

And now Fotuaika has decided hes a QLDer too after playing for junior kiwis and tonga. You really think his lifelong dream is to represent Australia?

I think that’s a decision for him to make, again nobody has a gun to his head. He’s not a child. If his dream is to play for either of those teams he can.

 

[Matua]

Taumalolo was picked for Australians schoolboys' team, he could have played origin, kangaroos, but chose not to, which i great, the players choice

There's no way Taumalolo should have been given the option to play for the Kangaroos though (despite the fact the hokey rules support that). He came to Oz specifically on a league scholarship.

It's not hard when they are two fundamentally contradictory things, and if they're not fundamentally contradictory things then, in this case at least, they are meaningless.

Being Australian, (or for that matter Tongan, Samoan, or from anywhere else in the world) has to mean more than simply residing on the piece of land that is called 'Australia', i.e. it has to have a unifying ideological basis behind it, because if it ever doesn't then you effectively don't have a unified country, you've got a bunch of balkanising ethnic groups, and that is always a recipe for disaster.

I really don't get where you're coming from, heritage isn't zero sum.

Also, I live in Australia, spent a lot of time with Kiwis, spend a lot of time with Maori, do not consider myself Australian at all (TBF as I'm not), and, I have an Arab mate who naturally spends a lot of time with his Arab community ... we're 'balkanised ethnic groups" yet we're hardly making Australia un-unified and contributing to disaster. You can be unified as "Australians" while still having/being other heritages.

 

[The Great Dane]

I really don't get where you're coming from, heritage isn't zero sum.

Also, I live in Australia, spent a lot of time with Kiwis, spend a lot of time with Maori, do not consider myself Australian at all (TBF as I'm not), and, I have an Arab mate who naturally spends a lot of time with his Arab community ... we're 'balkanised ethnic groups" yet we're hardly making Australia un-unified and contributing to disaster. You can be unified as "Australians" while still having/being other heritages.

You need to read more history, maybe start by learning where the word 'balkanise' comes from and why accepting that your community is actively balkanising from the Australian community is a terrible thing.

 

[Matua]

You need to read more history, maybe start by learning where the word 'balkanise' comes from and why accepting that your community is actively balkanising from the Australian community is a terrible thing.

FFS dude, the quote marks around that should have been enough of a hint to you that I was taking the piss out of your comment. Different heritages can happily coexist without leading to balkanisation.