Polyneysians In the Junior Ranks

[rupertpupkin]

...My solution would be for the lil white aussie boys to harden the f*ck up.
As Eelementary said it's character building. If you can't handle opponents of all sizes, Rugby League is not for you. We don't want to be breeding soft-c*cks for the next generation.

We had weight divisions during the 1970's. The 70's through 80's was a time of softies, according to you. This has nothing to do with character development. It's about physical development. Facing off against giants is ok, when you have the developed body to absorb the punishment. Lots of kids don't have muscle and bone development until much later than the early maturing behemoths. It doesn't matter how tough you are mentally, or even how well you apply technique. The gap is often so wide at that age that the muscles tear and the bones break, regardless.

After weight divisions were dropped, the junior game transitioned relatively well, and it wasn't due to an absence of early maturing big kids. The game had replacement reserves, not interchange. A team could only field 2x fresh reserves. You could have 2 more, but only if they had already played that day. This went a long way to offsetting the physical damage from big near-adult kids.

The increase in their number, combined with the interchange, is a deadly combination. The game will suffer, unless a return to weight divisions/limit/numbers, a return to reserve only, or some sort of combination is introduced.

 

[Lego_Man]

Marshall has a lot of milk in his coffee...it's where he gets his playmaking ability from

 

[Eels Dude]

Can you even name any other caucasian NZ halves recently?

I don't think it's a coincidence that the Warriors and the NZ team have notoriously struggled to find a single playmaker outside Jones and now Benji when the code is almost exclusively Maori/Islander in the country.

Kieran Foran is looking like the best Kiwi half in a long time, and he is caucasian.

I'll wait for all the PC nerds to come in and scream racism to make themselves feel better, but just as Islanders have shown to be bigger, stronger and superior athletes, they also seem(in general) to struggle when it comes to the structure of playmaking.

Regardless of heritage, if you say that you don't care if certain people are scared off because of the size of Polynesian juniors, you really should have a think before lamenting why so few halves are being produced. They're the small players being scared away due to the dominance of size at a young age.

I think that's a good point. You look at the Kiwi halves over the years, who've they used apart from Stacey and Benji. Nathan Fien.... who isn't a real kiwi. Thomas Lealeaui or however you spell it, who couldn't crack a first grade spot in the NRL when he was only 21 or 22 and was forced to the UK. The fact the Warriors have tried recruiting Aussies like Fien, Michael Witt, and Grant Rovelli to name a few shows they just don't seem to develop skills needed by halves in New Zealand.

 

[bluesbreaker]

Load of sh*t, kids should learn how to cut the fat slow f**kers down, not be protected against them.

And if you were previously one of these kids (or have them playing now), well, nothing has changed for 20 years, and we all survived. Even the 5'nothing 50 kilo people amongst us.

 

[bluesbreaker]

And your kids are probably pussies, luckily if you live in 'GWS' or the Gold Coast, there's another sport for your female kids to play. It's called AFL.

 

[Eels Dude]

And your kids are probably pussies, luckily if you live in 'GWS' or the Gold Coast, there's another sport for your female kids to play. It's called AFL.

And more will do that... that would be a great advertisement for the game of rugby league in general would it not? Pushing kids away? Lessening our junior bases? Stop being so narrow minded and think about the big picture.

 

[bluesbreaker]

On the contrary, I feel I am looking at the big picture. You learn how to tackle properly early, you need not be protected against the afforementioned fat slow f**kers.

 

[Raider_69]

i got stomped all over by islander kids untill i learnt to tackle right
i was deadset 2foot and 40kgs in the pouring rain, didnt do me or my tackling technique any harm learning to take them down properly, as said, often i got stomped on by them, but once you learn how to take them, they are easier to tackle than the quick little pricks who jump around like they are on crack

 

[bluesbreaker]

i got stomped all over by islander kids untill i learnt to tackle right
i was deadset 2foot and 40kgs in the pouring rain, didnt do me or my tackling technique any harm learning to take them down properly, as said, often i got stomped on by them, but once you learn how to take them, they are easier to tackle than the quick little pricks who jump around like they are on crack

Get Guinness on the horn Raidey my old sparring partner, cause this may just be the only time we've ever agreed.

 

[Pig Champion]

My two oldest boys play in a league without a lot of polynesian kids, but there are still some big boppers. In our U/9 B GF the other team had one big lad who they had run wide all game. My son, a head shorter, stopped him everytime. My son grabbed him and wrestled him to the ground. But our best player, not big but a great footy brain, would shoot off the line and cut his legs out from under him.

I believe in getting your kids to start playing early and get their tackling technique perfected young. I think kids see alot of NRL and try the grabbing, wrestling stuff but often get brushed off by the big kids. My son fortunately seems to have good upper body strength but going low with the shoulder (head behind the player) is definately the way to go at junior level.

The polynesian kids I've seen in trials, gala days and at certain clubs in our comp generally don't have much differance in size and the big ones of any background still can't run without legs.

If a kid is blessed with a greater size for their age, good luck to them.

If a kid is blessed with an absence of a birth certificate, maybe a bone density scan will correct that problem.

 

[innsaneink]

On the contrary, I feel I am looking at the big picture. You learn how to tackle properly early, you need not be protected against the afforementioned fat slow f**kers.

You are dealing with kids.
The coach is most often a parent/volunteer...he's done a couple of days getting his coaching cert. he's no teacher....he has 12-16 kids, he has to teach them to be a team, to run, pass, kick, catch AND tackle....all while making sure the kids have fun, keep intersted in the space of 2 to maybe 4 hours max per week.
Yes...it really IS that simple, isnt it?

 

[Talanexor]

Why because they werent black. Friend played for NZ Maori and his family had plenty do with NZ Maori league including his uncle and cousin who coached NZ in the ill fated wc in 2000.

Jones is also distinctly Maori.

Maoriness is not entirely reflected by colour of your skin or genetic makeup.
If you have maori heritage and identify with that heritage then essentially you are maori - not part maori becuase essentially that goes with outsaying.

Infact they are two of the most supported/favourite maori league players of all time. Go to any league pub lol.

This bloke is elegible for the Indigenous Team. Does he look like he has ever even SEEN an aboriginal? Just because your great grandmother was part maori/aboriginal/white/black/purple doesn't mean squat. Jones is mostly white. Benji has some white in him too - he's not pure polynesian.

In all seriousness though, the ethnicity thing DOES seem to come into play. Aboriginals seem to make excellent outside backs. White guys make great playmakers and Polynesians make powerful forwards.

NZ has failed to produce any decent halfbacks since jones through the league system and has had to rely on touch footy to produce decent playmakers - probably, as a few people have already said, due to the over-representation of polynesian kids in the junior grades, and the focus on developing big, hard-running players and not quick, skillful players.

Australia is starting to go the same way.

 

[innsaneink]

Haha I saw him playing for QLD Aboriginal 19s against NSW Aboriginal 19s in the curtain raiser to a Roos Pommy test at SFS....he sure stood out.

 

[magpie_man]

On the contrary, I feel I am looking at the big picture. You learn how to tackle properly early, you need not be protected against the afforementioned fat slow f**kers.

when i played, a lot of the "fat slow" polynesian/melanesian forwards were just as quick as outside backs. moimoi is in the top 4 quickest 40m sprinters at parramatta.

 

[ozenzud]

Agree Magpie. The alledgedly "fat" polyensian kids are often tall, slim, fast, strong and athletic. There are some big boppers of course.

RL's a hard game and we can't make it soft. But it is about an environment for kids to develop and they develop differently. Ridiculous to say, they have to be "hard" at 5!

 

[meltiger]

It's good for them. Character-building, in fact.

Absoloutely agree

this threads been done a million times... I think most people agree that weight divisions are a good idea in some form.

There are flaws in weight divisions, just like there are in age divisions.

This is an issue that has been discussed at numerous levels. The reality is that it is alienating some kids from playing RL.

The little princesses should toughen up.

 

[hutch]

who would be the biggest player in the nrl? i would say david taylor who comes in at about 118-120 kgs, he definately aint a polynesian. also, canberra have had the biggest pack for years, not many polynesians down there. weight divisions maybe necessary in some areas, and it is a genetic fact that polynesian kids develop quicker than other races, but once kids hit 15 they start to even themselves out.

i dont want to see kids turned away from rugby league of any racial background, but i understand that some kids arent suited to our sport. its one of the things i like about our sport. union types always say that they have a sport for all shapes and sizes. well we dont, only the exceptional athletes and footballers usually get through, and a lot of our players need to be bigger, faster, stronger, better footballers, better althletes and extremely skillful. i dont know the answer when it comes to kids though.

 

[marlow]

yes but smaller slower developing kids need a chance and not be bashed out before they hit puberty. Case in point. Nick Riewoldt of the AFl. Major drawcard gun player etc. Say what u want about the AFL in general
but at 192cm and 98kgs he couldve been a good rugby league backrower with his speed and endurance.
Born and bred gold coaster. PLayed league early but was bashed to pieces by Bigger faster maturing kids and many (not all) id assume would be islander. If we dont change this we could be hearing this story more and more.

 

[shiznit]

god there are some clowns in here....

everyone here knows that NZ dont produce quality halves because our Jnr game is more physical than anywhere else.

the kids are bigger... and in order to succeed in our lower grades you need to be able to handle the physical nature of it.

whether you white or brown it doesnt matter... the way the system is at the moment we are not going to get good halves until we move away from the emphasis on a power game and develop the skills.

if you look at the young promising Halves who have come out of NZ recently.... Shaun Johnson & Benji Marshall.... both have played next to NO jnr RL in NZ. they came from a Touch/RU background.

until they fix that... were not going to get halves of any description coming through...

Ohhh and Stacey Jones is Maori for sure... hes Ngapuhi. if you know anything about being Maori you know that you dont have to have a certain percentage blood to be considered Maori. if you have Maori Whakapapa(genealogy) then your Maori.

infact.... you dont even have to have blood... because of Whangai.

on a side note... Johnathan Thurston is Maori also...

 

[bluesbreaker]

I dunno about this kids business, but all my coaches actually taught us how to play. Hence, smallest team in the comp but the best. As whoever it was that i can't be arsed scrolling up to see said, learn to cut them down, and they fall just as easy as anyone else.

I take your point about the athletic pollies, and to be 100% honest, there are a lot more aboriginals playing in my junior footy years then Polys, and they were, nearly 100% of the time, big fat slow f**kers, usually wearing runners instead of football boots (another good way to bring em down ;-)).