Polyneysians In the Junior Ranks

[Dragonwest]

too many problems.

look at the situation the islander kids are put in. putting a 9 year old with 12-13 yos isn't fair on them mentally and socially. sure they're big enough but it would hurt their development both as a footy player and as a person

That'swhy u should limit the shift to two age groups, a 9 yr old can only be pushed up to playing 11 yr olds.

 

[Hari Kari]

My solution would be for the lil white aussie boys to harden the f*ck up.
As Eelementary said it's character building. If you can't handle opponents of all sizes, Rugby League is not for you. We don't want to be breeding soft-c*cks for the next generation.

Bit late for that, Mothers can't even slap their kids on the wrist now.

Kids think being Emo is cool, like WTF? I hope there isn't WW3 in ten years time, we'll lose badly with our modern fairy soldiers.

 

[Eelementary]

Try telling that to a 12 year old.

I was partly being facetious.

I concede that the issues raised in this thread are real, and for the most part I agree. We have to look after the kids and the code's future.

On the flipside, I would hate to see kids being taken out of the game simply through lack of 'heart' - "that kid is bigger and better than me so I won't even bother trying".

By all means, devise a plan to protect the kids. But I believe the real challenge lies in finding a way to do so that doesn't give kids the option to weasel out of it through a lack of trying.

 

[Jason_(Is_our_King)_Smith]

its not always about size - some polynesians play the game more physical.

You think it is a problem in australia LOL. Wait til you come to New Zealand. there are other ethnic groups that play league here also.

Part of the problem are selectors/junior rep coaches are being negative simply picking the biggest blokes even though they have a bad attitude over looking much talented players.
Has been happening with the warriors recently - warriors u20s should be the best team in the comp IMO. Auckland junior comps are pretty strong and up to 18 teams in some grades and thats just auckland.

Is there a big drop off in non-polynesian players because of the difference in size in NZ junior comps?

 

[jasonstevenswedgie]

just teach them how to tackle properly
The bigger they are the harder they fall

 

[ozenzud]

A few posters from NZ are saying "if you think you've got a problem come to NZ". They are right. In league in Wellington, say under 9's, there are only about 3 or 4 white kids in the WHOLE grade. One is my son.

It is mostly the islanders who are big. Maori boys pretty much the same as the whities. The islander kids are fantastic to work with. They are big and powerful and are enthusiastic. You just have to teach the other kids technique and instill courage.
We only have 8 or so teams and not enough to have seperate grades.
Its not a problem at this age though. Its when they get to 12. Then the muscle starts to kick in. I support the 5 metre rule. Rumours I've heard that ALL league outside NRL is considering going back to the 5 metre rule.


Union here does have weight for age. They enforce it, to the gram.

 

[Big Time]

I have an idea. The government should enforce that white men can only sleep with polynesian women and polynesian men can only sleep with white women. any child that is born to parents of the same race are sent to an orphanage where they are submitted to slave labour. If people continued to breed with people of their own race then these people would need to be exterminated.

We cannot just stop here. Aboriginal people must also sleep with Polynesians.

By doing the above we can create a race of people who have the power and strenght of polynesians whilst also having the finesse and fitness of the white man or the speed and natual brilliance of the aborginal man.

I see this as the only solution.

Or maybe we could try weight divisions if we are desperate.

 

[Talanexor]

Not sure if this idea has been floated before, but how about capping the weight division for a TEAM?

Assume an average weight of 60kg for a 12 year old for example. (I'm 22 and only 72 kg - I was never that big as a 12-year-old)

So if you have two giant islander kids who weigh 120kg each, thats fine, but all your other players are going to be tiny.

Weight divisions for players is too simple a solution - many areas just don't have enough teams for separate divisions, and it would mean that the white kids never learn to tackle properly and the Islander kids find themselves way out of their depth playing with guys 3-4 years older than them.

With a total of 780 kg split between the 13 kids on field, that gives you maybe a couple of 90kg props, maybe an 80 kg backrower or centre and 10 other kids between 45 and 60 kg. Thats a weight differential not unlike most NRL teams. Having one or two big boppas won't give too much of an advantage, but having a team of 100kg-plus giants is a MASSIVE advantage.

Maybe this is a reason why we've been producing plenty of good backrowers and big outside backs recently, but very few skilled halves?

 

[Big Time]

I like my idea better.

 

[mean_maori_mean]

Is there a big drop off in non-polynesian players because of the difference in size in NZ junior comps?

I would say so. There still are plenty in other areas outside auckland. Where there is a large population of pacific islanders.

I personally dont care if a certain ethnicity is scared away from the game however I am concerned with the lack of halves who have come through the grades.

Some players like Warriors NYC halfblack johnson have come from Touch and a mixture of restricted grades.
Kevin Locke played a little restricted but he also played senior footy as a youngster too.

Maori are polynesian but are not generally as big as the island boys- however they generally make up for with agression etc. Like Adam Blair, Issac Luke not the biggest but naturally agressive.

But I have little issue in Pacific Islander playing league in NZ- I think it is great they have heaps of natural ability and there are some very supportive and community minded parents. And they certainly have plenty of personality.

My issue is with Junior selectors/coaches not coaching positively. Or developing players like selecting the biggest most dominant player at standoff - which is alright when they have skills a la olsen filipaina. But when they simply run hard???.

 

[mean_maori_mean]

A few posters from NZ are saying "if you think you've got a problem come to NZ". They are right. In league in Wellington, say under 9's, there are only about 3 or 4 white kids in the WHOLE grade. One is my son.

It is mostly the islanders who are big. Maori boys pretty much the same as the whities. The islander kids are fantastic to work with. They are big and powerful and are enthusiastic. You just have to teach the other kids technique and instill courage.
We only have 8 or so teams and not enough to have seperate grades.
Its not a problem at this age though. Its when they get to 12. Then the muscle starts to kick in. I support the 5 metre rule. Rumours I've heard that ALL league outside NRL is considering going back to the 5 metre rule.


Union here does have weight for age. They enforce it, to the gram.

I dont think they should consider rules changes as they are based on misconceptions alot of the times.
Like sometimes that islander kids are big etc - but often they are bigger, stronger and faster - can rule the advantage out of the game.

It comes from coaching tactics rather than rule changes.

 

[Johns Magic]

I personally dont care if a certain ethnicity is scared away from the game however I am concerned with the lack of halves who have come through the grades.

I think those issues are one and the same

 

[Eels Dude]

I have an idea. The government should enforce that white men can only sleep with polynesian women and polynesian men can only sleep with white women. any child that is born to parents of the same race are sent to an orphanage where they are submitted to slave labour. If people continued to breed with people of their own race then these people would need to be exterminated.

We cannot just stop here. Aboriginal people must also sleep with Polynesians.

By doing the above we can create a race of people who have the power and strenght of polynesians whilst also having the finesse and fitness of the white man or the speed and natual brilliance of the aborginal man.

I see this as the only solution.

Or maybe we could try weight divisions if we are desperate.

You're an idiot. This is not a racial issue, so why turn it into one???

The OP displayed a concern showed by many that quite frankly polynesian children are a lot larger than others at their particular age, which affects other youngsters participating in the great game of rugby league, and also affects their performances and skill levels.

These comments by everyone are not being rascist whatsoever, merely attempting to work out a solution to help the game of rugby league in general for the future development of players and interest in the game.

 

[mean_maori_mean]

I think those issues are one and the same

They certainly arent the same - certainly dont need halfback with exclusively european heritage.

NZ's best halfbacks of the modern era bar freeman have all been maori marshall, jones and friend.

 

[Warriors1]

Is there a big drop off in non-polynesian players because of the difference in size in NZ junior comps?

I'm from Auckland and i can tell you there has been a massive massive drop off, There's hardly any european players playing under 15 they might make up 5% of players where as 30 years ago around 70%. Now soccer is the most popular sport by a long way, atleast in terms of playing numbers, why? because of the size difference, in rugby union they introduced wight limits and that made a huge difference, If any of you watched a auckland under 13 league game you'll notice there will be almost no european kids. And white people do like league warriors are popular, but because our soccer team sucks they don't really follow soccer instead just play soccer/follow union/league

 

[Warriors1]

They certainly arent the same - certainly dont need halfback with exclusively european heritage.

NZ's best halfbacks of the modern era bar freeman have all been maori marshall, jones and friend.

When you say maori you mean part maori. Friend/Jones are more european than maori.

 

[mean_maori_mean]

When you say maori you mean part maori. Friend/Jones are more european than maori.

Why because they werent black. Friend played for NZ Maori and his family had plenty do with NZ Maori league including his uncle and cousin who coached NZ in the ill fated wc in 2000.

Jones is also distinctly Maori.

Maoriness is not entirely reflected by colour of your skin or genetic makeup.
If you have maori heritage and identify with that heritage then essentially you are maori - not part maori becuase essentially that goes with outsaying.

Infact they are two of the most supported/favourite maori league players of all time. Go to any league pub lol.

 

[Johns Magic]

They certainly arent the same - certainly dont need halfback with exclusively european heritage.

NZ's best halfbacks of the modern era bar freeman have all been maori marshall, jones and friend.

Can you even name any other caucasian NZ halves recently?

I don't think it's a coincidence that the Warriors and the NZ team have notoriously struggled to find a single playmaker outside Jones and now Benji when the code is almost exclusively Maori/Islander in the country.

Kieran Foran is looking like the best Kiwi half in a long time, and he is caucasian.

I'll wait for all the PC nerds to come in and scream racism to make themselves feel better, but just as Islanders have shown to be bigger, stronger and superior athletes, they also seem(in general) to struggle when it comes to the structure of playmaking.

Regardless of heritage, if you say that you don't care if certain people are scared off because of the size of Polynesian juniors, you really should have a think before lamenting why so few halves are being produced. They're the small players being scared away due to the dominance of size at a young age.

 

[marlow]

maybe it comes down to selections. if coaches coach to win "playing football" rather than just gettin enormous islanders to bash the living daylights out of people then the caucasian kids have a chance. If smaller white kids were taught by quality coaches how to run their bigger opponents ragged with skill and finesse, maybe they wouldnt get bashed so much. It lies i think in the poor junior coaching and the mentality "bigger is better"

 

[dannyboy]

maybe it comes down to selections. if coaches coach to win "playing football" rather than just gettin enormous islanders to bash the living daylights out of people then the caucasian kids have a chance. If smaller white kids were taught by quality coaches how to run their bigger opponents ragged with skill and finesse, maybe they wouldnt get bashed so much. It lies i think in the poor junior coaching and the mentality "bigger is better"

So so wrong. You're talking about mid teenage mentality and coaching but you've already lost your smaller kids some 4-5 years back.