Ponga Appreciation Thread.

[Woody90]

The commentary was the same for the Raiders too until they actually proved they could a) judge talent and b) coach them to be better.

Players typically don't come to us to improve, they leave to improve. O'Brien has to be removed and replaced before that has any weight whatsoever to me. You can't execute that strategy with shit-for-brains running the football show. The club is STILL umming and ahhing on this super basic and easy decision. We've passed up on so many serviceable coaches since we re-signed his stupid contract. If we don't rip off the bandaid now and sit on our hands and actually let him have ANOTHER crack next year... we'll be throwing another year or two away and we'll completely deserve to fail. Not us the fans, we don't deserve any of this - but the people running the club will.

Yeah I completely disagree that players don’t improve when they come here. Leo went from a reserve grade player at the Raiders to the most in demand prop in the game here in 18 months, Lucas was a nobody in the Dragons system and now rep quality, we turned Dom young into a star, he went to the Roosters and turn to shit and is now looking like a star again. There are plenty more.

I want AOB gone too but it’s definitely not accurate to say players haven’t improved here. There’s literally no reason we cant develop some of the fringe guys into better players like we have in the past. I actually have zero issues with AOB’s player development at all. Tactics in attack are the reason he needs to leave.

 

[Apey]

The 5 recruitment managers in 6 years, if entirely accurate, is pretty embarrassing stuff. It suggests to me we havent known what direction we actually want to take the club in, which fits perfectly with what a shambles we've become.

 

[HarVeeGee]

In the case of two of them there was some misconduct and they had to be let go.

One was the guy who’s likely largely to blame for a lot of the signings people on here are maddest about so I’m sure most were glad to see the back of them.

And then the most recent guy to get fired was basically just in the job in an interim role until we got the big fish we wanted in POS. No other club hired him and he’s now become an agent at Pacific Sports Management.

So I think it sounds worse than it is. There’s only really one instance of hiring a guy, backing him to the hilt, and then sacking him due purely to performance dissatisfaction & going in a different direction.

As far as I’m aware there’s other staff turnover stuff which is actually a worse reflection on the club than the recruitment manager thing. The turnover in strength & conditioning staff is worse and more inexcusable IMO.

If we landed POS five years ago on the kind of money we paid to get him now he’d likely still be at the club. You look at how the Dolphins are doing right now with a shitload of injuries having to use guys he’s found who nobody has ever heard of - their first crop of internally developed pathways guys he recruited as teens - and it’s clear he knows what he’s doing and his record speaks for itself.

 

[macavity]

Gus's podcast section on Ponga & the Knights

Rags on us, doesn't mention the Dogs took fully 1/2 of our junior catchment (and the Roosters took another 1/4) while we were NRL owned and couldn't defend it.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Yeah as I tried to explain to a certain dope on here before realising it’s a total waste of effort, people do not realise how bad of a situation Wests walked into & what kind of a fight it’s been and will continue to be to wrest back the level of control and access over said catchments that pundits & punters just seem to assume we have easily at our fingertips. We don’t. So many of these kids where people get annoyed about them not being in Knights pathways, well, they played for a junior club which has a direct affiliation with a club like Canterbury, Easts, Manly, etc.

Gus for sure knows but he’s a cheeky merkin who’s always going to prioritise sticking the boot in while adopting the posture of being fair and balanced.

 

[Apey]

Gus for sure knows but he’s a cheeky merkin who’s always going to prioritise sticking the boot in while adopting the posture of being fair and balanced.

Im sure if you asked him, he'd say it didn't happen like that, just like he'd never met Galvin!

 

[perverse]

Why people are jumping to say the bloke with the proven track record must be the problem of why we can’t recruit, rather than the club that’s been a basket case for 2 decades is beyond me. I’m sorry but I find that truely mind blowing.

I'm not saying he's a part of the problem (yet), I'm giving him a D- for his first year of recruitment and expressing worry about the next 2-3 years of watching this team. It's looking shit and I don't believe it had to be the case. I'm evaluating his performance on what he's done for the team I'm going to be watching next year, not on our state when he took over.

Aren't you at all curious, looking at next years top 30 list, where the 11.5m+ of the salary cap is going? I sure as hell am... but then I realise Taj Annan is in the top 30 on good coin and I sigh. Oh that's right, we're just wasting it on different players next year.

On your question about his work with the junior sides, Ive been reading the MS forums a bit and a few people that seem to like they’re very knowledgable about the juniors posted that POS is bringing new kids into our junior squads “every week”. My dad’s also heavily involved in the Newcastle comp and said the exact same thing and that POS has been a lot more visible than previous guys have been. Not being in Newy myself I can’t comment if any of them will be good, but at least he’s prioritising those squads. He’s also prioritised re-signing and upgrading talent like Hopwood and Chase Butler who would both likely be gone under previous regimes.

It's all anecdotal, but I guess I have to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's all true (although again, this is stuff I've heard more times than I can count for over 2 decades now). It's not hard to be more visible than blokes that weren't even in the city doing the job, which has been the case in the past too. None of this is talking about what I am though. It's great that he's doing amazing things with the juniors, love it. What I'm refuting is that the top 30 roster had to be burned down without any ready replacements. I don't see how it has benefited us and I'm unsatisfied with the conclusions of others in that department. Saving money? No. Front-loading? Maybe, but I think that will bite us in the ass in time if we're doing it to any significant degree too. It was possible to be more incremental with the change. Ultimately the simplest answer (to me, this is my opinion) seems to be that the hubris of POS and the club was such that they believed they could just clear the decks and fill the roster with ease - and they fell on their ass with their recruitment drive. That's very much how it looks.

Yeah I completely disagree that players don’t improve when they come here. Leo went from a reserve grade player at the Raiders to the most in demand prop in the game here in 18 months, Lucas was a nobody in the Dragons system and now rep quality, we turned Dom young into a star, he went to the Roosters and turn to shit and is now looking like a star again. There are plenty more.

I want AOB gone too but it’s definitely not accurate to say players haven’t improved here. There’s literally no reason we cant develop some of the fringe guys into better players like we have in the past. I actually have zero issues with AOB’s player development at all. Tactics in attack are the reason he needs to leave.

I think his record is mixed (and I'm being generous). Doesn't seem to be able to make first graders out of many guys that don't already have a lot of talent. There's a much longer list of blokes we haven't been able to get the most out of than super talented blokes that he's managed to do so with tbh. See article: https://archive.is/SsL9U . I honestly think Crokes and maybe even Jones would go much better in another system too. Crokes in particular looks like a guy who is in his comfort zone to me and has more to give talent wise.

 

[Apey]

I definitely think more players have got better when they left us than the other way around.

 

[Woody90]

I'm not saying he's a part of the problem (yet), I'm giving him a D- for his first year of recruitment

Thing is though, if we had landed some of the talented young players he’s been targeting that other clubs also wanted like Latu, De Silva, etc. in place of the overpaid blokes we’ve currently got you’d be giving him a much higher rating. Is it POS’ fault we haven’t landed them though? Your recruitment guy can say whatever the hell he likes to players but no freaking way they’re leaving their friends and families in Sydney to move to a new place, to a struggling team that always has their coach getting sacked in the headlines when they have another option. You seem to be blaming POS for the club being utterly undesirable to recruits. The Knights are an absolute joke in league circles. Up and coming players weren’t even born the last time we were relevant. Our ability to attract players hasn’t suddenly appeared since POS came on board.

As for “blowing up the top 30”, I guess I have to disagree on that because I don’t think the overpaid players we’re letting go have been serving us. Yes 2026 is going to be a shit show, but what was the alternative? Give guys we’re letting go big contracts to stay and then we can’t sign anyone new for 2027 either? We’re never going to get out of the current cycle doing that. As they say the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

 

[Woody90]

a much longer list of blokes we haven't been able to get the most out of than super talented blokes that he's managed to do so with tbh. See article: https://archive.is/SsL9U .

That side listed is terrible and would probably get done by our current side.

 

[perverse]

Thing is though, if we had landed some of the talented young players he’s been targeting that other clubs also wanted like Latu, De Silva, etc. in place of the overpaid blokes we’ve currently got you’d be giving him a much higher rating. Is it POS’ fault we haven’t landed them though?

Yes, you nailed it. That's how recruitment works! No-one gets brownie points for talking to the right players, you actually have to sign some! I blame him for using the same recruitment strategy that he used at his previous appointments, correct. He's either worked at glamour clubs with influence/desirable locations/salary cap cheats, and one new club with a whole cap spare to use from a blank slate - and now us - a COMPLETELY different kettle of fish.

I'm saying his recruitment philosophy isn't going to work the same here and I've been saying it all damn year. Not in the short-mid term, and honestly we won't know if his junior work is effective until probably after his contract is up. I can't judge him on his selection of 16 years olds - I can only judge him by his effect on the team we actually support each and every week/month/year and to my measure he's doing a shit job to this point.

 

[perverse]

That side listed is terrible and would probably get done by our current side.

LOL dude it's not a real side that's been put together to be balanced or anything, it's just a mind exercise to show the talent that has passed through the place under utilized. A fun way to make a list. Are you being serious right now?

 

[Woody90]

Yes, you nailed it. That's how recruitment works! No-one gets brownie points for talking to the right players, you actually have to sign some! I blame him for using the same recruitment strategy that he used at his previous appointments, correct. He's either worked at glamour clubs with influence/desirable locations/salary cap cheats, and one new club with a whole cap spare to use from a blank slate - and now us - a COMPLETELY different kettle of fish.

I'm saying his recruitment philosophy isn't going to work the same here and I've been saying it all damn year. Not in the short-mid term, and honestly we won't know if his junior work is effective until probably after his contract is up. I can't judge him on his selection of 16 years olds - I can only judge him by his effect on the team we actually support each and every week/month/year and to my measure he's doing a shit job to this point.

See that’s where we differ. I consider his job to identify good players and work out how much we can offer them in context of our salary cap. Making the club attractive is not his job. That’s a problem much higher up.

So because we’re not a glamour club you’d prefer us to not even try and sign good players and to just over pay average guys like we’ve always done? Cool gotcha. That’s worked so well for us in recent years. We’re never ever going to be a good club if we keep doing what we have been and expecting a different outcome.

POS has been to a number of clubs. Not all cashed up glamour clubs. Like someone else mentioned, he built the current Dolphins squad completely from scratch. His record speaks for itself. We’d be silly to not even give him a chance.

 

[HarVeeGee]

LOL dude it's not a real side that's been put together to be balanced or anything, it's just a mind exercise to show the talent that has passed through the place under utilized. A fun way to make a list. Are you being serious right now?

The point would be a lot stronger if there were a lot of good players we would have wanted the team to keep on that list though, let alone some the entire fan base didn’t want punted into the Sun the entire time they played for us. Are there more than three guys on there we’d really like to bring back?

 

[perverse]

See that’s where we differ. I consider his job to identify good players and work out how much we can offer them in context of our salary cap. Making the club attractive is not his job. That’s a problem much higher up.

So because we’re not a glamour club you’d prefer us to not even try and sign good players and to just over pay average guys like we’ve always done? Cool gotcha. That’s worked so well for us in recent years. We’re never ever going to be a good club if we keep doing what we have been and expecting a different outcome.

POS has been to a number of clubs. Not all cashed up glamour clubs. Like someone else mentioned, he built the current Dolphins squad completely from scratch. His record speaks for itself.

I feel like a broken record, but I'd prefer it if he didn't move blokes on before having an able replacement. That's pretty much the core of what I've been saying.

I think it's a huge part of the recruitment managers job to sell the club to potential recruits. I don't think that's controversial. He's in charge of recruitment strategy. Besides that though, maybe base your recruitment and retention around recruits you think you can buy, rather than having dreams that players with other options are going to take the same money to come to Newcastle that they can get elsewhere. They're not. We're not getting many over the line paying market rates. There's probably quite a few in the article I pasted you that would have stayed at Newcastle for unders, but we'll never know because our coaching staff didn't identify/nurture them into first graders. That's a seperate issue, but certainly is a confluence of annoyances I have with the club combining into a really underwhelming squad for 2026.

 

[perverse]

The point would be a lot stronger if there were a lot of good players we would have wanted the team to keep on that list though, let alone some the entire fan base didn’t want punted into the Sun the entire time they played for us. Are there more than three guys on there we’d really like to bring back?

I'll take Watson, Clifford, Hosking, Sasagi, King back any day if you can arrange it. Kiraz and T'oa I'd have at the club for sure but are excess to requirements. They're all thriving under real mentorship and coaching now - and power to them. All are examples of guys that clearly could have been coached into first graders and potentially kept for the unders we actually need (affording us the ability to spend a bit more for pieces external to the club that we need - something O'Sullivan is as-yet unwilling to do). Hell if you wouldn't trade 2025 Jenkins for 2025 Schiller then you're tripping too.

Hell let's focus in on Jenkins? What's the number one reason you'd give for him thriving this year versus with us? I think anyone that's being honest would answer "he's in a good system now", or some variation - and with that I pretty much rest my case on that particular gripe.

 

[HarVeeGee]

. But the thrust of the article is “look at all the great players the Knights have lost” and then it’s mostly bums who’ve gone to good teams and therefore look okay but not actually good to anyone who isn’t totally new to the sport and doesn’t really understand it, or if you’re a rugby league journalist and therefore never developed any understanding of it.

Which means it’s a dumb article. We’ve got a better list than the alternate one they dished up. “the intention is to highlight an issue that long-suffering Novocastrians widely regard as their club’s greatest shortcoming - their inability to retain the right players.” The article does the opposite of that and makes it clear that the issue is something else.

Also, non-sequitir, but if you’d take Clifford back you need your head read.

I’d love King and Hosking back, and I’d shift the deckchairs a bit to get Kiraz. Watson I guess but take him or leave him.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Also I’m still at a loss as to why the Knights frenzy is happening now, when we’ve actually played okay recently, rather than a couple months ago eg when we were dishing up that 28-6 loss to Parra. Just a slow news cycle due to Origin being over now I guess? Kind of embarrassing to get swept up in media driven mass hysteria if you ask me. This week it’s us and next week it’ll be Wests again.

 

[perverse]

. But the thrust of the article is “look at all the great players the Knights have lost” and then it’s mostly bums who’ve gone to good teams and therefore look okay but not actually good to anyone who isn’t totally new to the sport and doesn’t really understand it, or if you’re a rugby league journalist and therefore never developed any understanding of it.

Which means it’s a dumb article. We’ve got a better list than the alternate one they dished up. “the intention is to highlight an issue that long-suffering Novocastrians widely regard as their club’s greatest shortcoming - their inability to retain the right players.” The article does the opposite of that and makes it clear that the issue is something else.

Also, non-sequitir, but if you’d take Clifford back you need your head read.

You wouldn't prefer to have Clifford than Cogger, Gamble or Hastings? Or Jake Arthur?

Your post doesn't address anything I've said - but attacks the articles veracity instead. I'm not here to defend the articles authorship, I posted it to give a quick list of names of players that have gone on to do better elsewhere without having to sacrifice more of my weekend than necessary. Pick and choose from it as you will, do you think any of those players have gone on to worse things since leaving us? We're talking about players improving or not when they leave.

Speechless on the primary point re: Jenkins too. Mhm...

 

[perverse]

Also I’m still at a loss as to why the Knights frenzy is happening now, when we’ve actually played okay recently, rather than a couple months ago eg when we were dishing up that 28-6 loss to Parra. Just a slow news cycle due to Origin being over now I guess? Kind of embarrassing to get swept up in media driven mass hysteria if you ask me. This week it’s us and next week it’ll be Wests again.

Dunno, that's the media for you. They smelt blood in the water and went at it.