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Scott

Bench
Messages
3,796
My only problem with Hoffman is he cannot pass. Great ball runner though and a fine fullback. Offers nothing in terms of passing. That is why Kearney prefered Locke as the Kiwi fullback later in the World Cup.
 

KeepingTheFaith

Referee
Messages
25,235
If Tomkins moves to the halves don't expect his game to change that much. He covers the field so well, he won't be static on one side waiting for the play to come to him.

Hoffman is a defensively strong fullback, and he'll cart the ball back on kick returns no problem. In attack his job will be to run off or inside Johnson/Tomkins, it won't be to act as a playmaker.

Perhaps the strong kick returner at fullback is in anticipation of Manu moving to the forwards?
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,718
My only problem with Hoffman is he cannot pass. Great ball runner though and a fine fullback. Offers nothing in terms of passing. That is why Kearney prefered Locke as the Kiwi fullback later in the World Cup.

to be fair, that's probably the only thing he doesn't do as well as Tomkins...

vvrulz is right though, surely if Tomkins was the answer, he deserves more time?
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,467
Warriors throwing contracts at everyone at the moment.

JWH, RTS and FPN from the Roosters all approached for 2016.

I don't mind that. JWH is overrated but on best form is a top-level prop. RTS is a potentially superstar, and Tomkins isn't going to be here much longer (I don't think). FPN, meh.

The Manu to prop thing just bemuses me. He was our best back this year by a country mile, and is finding consistency at what is probably his peak age in terms of his position. Then do we lose 2 more years to get him up to speed in a new one?
 

hitman82

Bench
Messages
4,937
Tomkins was an Elliot recruit...
Perhaps McFadden, as a former half, actually sees Tomkins' value lying in the 6 jersey.

Perhaps he wants a more powerful athlete at fullback, and prefers the playmaking roles in the halves.
 

hitman82

Bench
Messages
4,937
I don't mind that. JWH is overrated but on best form is a top-level prop. RTS is a potentially superstar, and Tomkins isn't going to be here much longer (I don't think). FPN, meh.

The Manu to prop thing just bemuses me. He was our best back this year by a country mile, and is finding consistency at what is probably his peak age in terms of his position. Then do we lose 2 more years to get him up to speed in a new one?


JWH is better than any forward we've had since Matulino lost his mojo two years ago.

I really don't see Manu moving to the forwards. I can't picture his body taking the battering it'd get, and I do not think he could handle the defensive workload. Also I don't think Manu's powerful kick returns and set-starters from deep in our half would translate to centre field hit-ups quite as well as some people expect.
 

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,466
Great buy i they can get Hoiffman.

We are short of experienced consistent senior players in that backline who read ( not talking literacy although the two are probably linked) well.

JHoff is a great defensive fullback.

Tomkins is a half in any case. Whether we sign Hoffman or not I'm hoping to see Tomkins play halves next season.

The defensive concerns around Tomkins are fair.

More reason to place him in the line. Defending up in the line is easier than on your own at Fullback ( If you've played Fb you''ll know what I'm on about ).

Johnson plays on the right, Tomkins would be paired with RHoff defensively, that would make a lot of sense.

The Left set play is still on. It should go better with Rhoff and Tomkins having played together. Rhoff is a better ball runner than Mannering, Tomkins is a better passer than anyone we have.

That Left set play relies on the Fb sweeping from the back, JHoffman can do that without much chop.

JHoff can return the Kicks.
RHoff will runs hitup #2.

What happens to Manu thereafter ( especially with us having signed a Winger from Canberra and chasing a Winger from the Storm) is less critical if they move him to the forwards.

They are recruiting other people that can do Vatuveis Job ( hit ups) and probably defend better.
 

Shaun Hewitt

First Grade
Messages
6,514
Warriors throwing contracts at everyone at the moment.

JWH, RTS and FPN from the Roosters all approached for 2016.

I'd love for us to get RTS
JWH would be good too as we need some mongrel.
FPN - No thanks.

Again, where have you heard these from?
btw, still waiting for Watmough and Matai to sign, just saying
 

TheDMC

Bench
Messages
3,419
Why would RTS leave the Roosters for the warriors? He is about to become the Rooster's fullback for the next decade...what a crock.
 

Iron Lion

Juniors
Messages
1,216
I'd love for us to get RTS
JWH would be good too as we need some mongrel.
FPN - No thanks.

Again, where have you heard these from?
btw, still waiting for Watmough and Matai to sign, just saying

Talk in media circles close to the Warriors.

Wamough deal was constrigent on Manly taking Feleti Mateo's sizable pay package. Manly now dont want Feleti and the Warriors couldnt unload Neilsen to them either. Matai and Josh Hoffman could both come here but Neilsen will need a new home.

Warriors are literally in talks with a dozen players at the moment. Also I know of one rugby player close to signing with Warriors also. Irony is he is not from NZ.

Told you all about Hoffman, this has been months in the works, not new at all. Bell is a media disaster for the Warriors
 

jaseg

Juniors
Messages
2,274
Bringing in Hoffman at fullback and moving Tomkins to 6 would likely be good. The most effective fullbacks tend to be guys who create opportunities off the back of their strong runs (Hayne, Inglis, Slater, Tedesco, Dugan, Barba/Boyd at their best). Tomkins is not one of these - he's a playmaking fullback. Playmaking fullbacks can be very effective but rarely at the absolute top of the heap (Brett Stewart is probably the exception, although before his knee troubles he was more of a runner - in any case that guy is just a freak).

Tomkins' numbers read like a (very) good #6.. the only question for me is if Hoffman the fullback we need to shift him, or would our overall utility be greater with the Chad (who was quite promising before bizarrely being dropped for all of the last few games) playing 6 and Tomkins staying at the back? Personally I think it's worth signing Hoffman.

I don't really have an issue with Tomkins' defending in the line - his effective tackle rate is barely any higher than many top halves (Thurston, Foran, Johnson, Pearce) and after playing as a fullback this year his numbers are going to be negatively distorted (only 2 first string NRL fullbacks have effective tackle rates above 80% - Inglis & Boyd). That's not to say he will be a very good defender... just not nearly as poor as some might think.

As for the Roosters players rumours... RTS is no chance, I don't really want FPN and can't see JWH either - though I'd take him very quickly at this point (yes, he is overrated... but still would easily be a first team player for us).

Oh, and Tomkins was not a mistake... he's easily better than Locke at fullback (I'm judging Locke on the average of his whole career, not a couple of strings of games), a great option in the halves besides that (moving him doesn't negate either of those points), and frankly I'm very thankful it allowed us to get that poisonous little so and so Locke out of the club. It's pretty clear to see him for what he is by his behaviour this year IMO.
 

shiznit

Coach
Messages
14,803
There's only one name the Warriors should be chasing...

That's Kieran Foran... They need to throw the kitchen sink at signing him...

It would mean punting Townsend... But IMO... a guy like Foran is a guy that you build your club around.

Tough as hell... He's a leader... he's a Kiwi and Auckland raised to boot... It would also help the kiwis enormously having Foran and Johnson together week in week out.

I can't believe that Manly have let it get to the stage that he's about to go on the market... He a piece that would alter the future of any club he goes to...
 

reykaine

Juniors
Messages
147
Bringing in Hoffman at fullback and moving Tomkins to 6 would likely be good. The most effective fullbacks tend to be guys who create opportunities off the back of their strong runs (Hayne, Inglis, Slater, Tedesco, Dugan, Barba/Boyd at their best). Tomkins is not one of these - he's a playmaking fullback. Playmaking fullbacks can be very effective but rarely at the absolute top of the heap (Brett Stewart is probably the exception, although before his knee troubles he was more of a runner - in any case that guy is just a freak).

Tomkins' numbers read like a (very) good #6.. the only question for me is if Hoffman the fullback we need to shift him, or would our overall utility be greater with the Chad (who was quite promising before bizarrely being dropped for all of the last few games) playing 6 and Tomkins staying at the back? Personally I think it's worth signing Hoffman.

I don't really have an issue with Tomkins' defending in the line - his effective tackle rate is barely any higher than many top halves (Thurston, Foran, Johnson, Pearce) and after playing as a fullback this year his numbers are going to be negatively distorted (only 2 first string NRL fullbacks have effective tackle rates above 80% - Inglis & Boyd). That's not to say he will be a very good defender... just not nearly as poor as some might think.

As for the Roosters players rumours... RTS is no chance, I don't really want FPN and can't see JWH either - though I'd take him very quickly at this point (yes, he is overrated... but still would easily be a first team player for us).

Oh, and Tomkins was not a mistake... he's easily better than Locke at fullback (I'm judging Locke on the average of his whole career, not a couple of strings of games), a great option in the halves besides that (moving him doesn't negate either of those points), and frankly I'm very thankful it allowed us to get that poisonous little so and so Locke out of the club. It's pretty clear to see him for what he is by his behaviour this year IMO.

Pretty much concur.
Tomkins hangs around the ruck a lot more than your prototypical NRL fullback. He has more touches per game than anyone except the dummy half. He has sublime pass touches. People forget the flick passes against Tigers and Raiders that created tries. He's also a back up merchant. We just need some forwards getting some offloads away in the tackle. Hopefully Ryhoff will provide more on this front. Matulino needs to pick this part of his game up. I don't expect it from Lilyman and Matagi, they don't have the skill set required.

And I don't get the crying about dropping Chad. He will still be around as we lack depth in halves area. Its very rare for players to get through the season injury free. Johnson had 3 weeks off and it basically cost us the playoffs as no one was good enough in that position to cover properly ie TL.
JHoff's role will be to return the ball with vigour, and to chime into our backline moves and execute well, which he seems to do well for the broncos when he plays us.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,718
There's only one name the Warriors should be chasing...

That's Kieran Foran... They need to throw the kitchen sink at signing him...

It would mean punting Townsend... But IMO... a guy like Foran is a guy that you build your club around.

Tough as hell... He's a leader... he's a Kiwi and Auckland raised to boot... It would also help the kiwis enormously having Foran and Johnson together week in week out.

I can't believe that Manly have let it get to the stage that he's about to go on the market... He a piece that would alter the future of any club he goes to...

Wonder if he'd consider it - be happy letting Johnson go to get Foran tbh
 

shiznit

Coach
Messages
14,803
Wonder if he'd consider it - be happy letting Johnson go to get Foran tbh
Have em both... Imo It would help Johnson a lot to play alongside Foran on a weekly basis.

I'll admit though... I'm biased towards Foran... I've rated that kid highly from very early...

I just think beyond his obvious ability as a half he has this toughness about him where he does what needs to be done in order to get his team the W.

It's like he has an ultimate strength of will that no matter what happens he will put his team in to a position of strength because that's what he does.

He's almost the opposite of Johnson as Johnson has a tendency to stand aside and let the big moments go by without him... Foran MAKES the big moments happen... Whether it be by attacking an edge... Or coming out of the line and putting massive shot on.
 

Auckland4ever

Juniors
Messages
1,243
Wonder if he'd consider it - be happy letting Johnson go to get Foran tbh

I wouldn't. At the tail-end of the season, Manly's forward pack went nowhere, Lyon has been way out of form and Stewart hasn't been at his best. Basically Manly's halves have been in the same predicament as Johnson has found himself in numerous times over the past three years - ineffective pack & no creativity around them/him. Neither Foran or Cherry-Evans have been effective enough to change Manly's fortunes. I rate Foran highly & would love to have him here, but I think he'd struggle to have anywhere near the kind of impact he's had at Manly with the Warriors. Conversly, I think Johnson would be held in the same regard as any half (bar maybe Thurston) at a star studded club.
 

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