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JJ

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,718
Auckland4ever said:
I wouldn't. At the tail-end of the season, Manly's forward pack went nowhere, Lyon has been way out of form and Stewart hasn't been at his best. Basically Manly's halves have been in the same predicament as Johnson has found himself in numerous times over the past three years - ineffective pack & no creativity around them/him. Neither Foran or Cherry-Evans have been effective enough to change Manly's fortunes. I rate Foran highly & would love to have him here, but I think he'd struggle to have anywhere near the kind of impact he's had at Manly with the Warriors. Conversly, I think Johnson would be held in the same regard as any half (bar maybe Thurston) at a star studded club.
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Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one... "bar maybe Thurston", seriously???
 
T

tangalife

Juniors
Messages
530
vvvrulz said:
Well this is the stupidity of it all, we threw all our eggs at Tomkins as our fullback to get rid of a quality but difficult to manage Locke.

Now I'm glad we got rid of Locke based on his attitude throughout the year, but wind the clock back to the Tomkins signing and the plan was to dump Locke in favour of this 'ESL superstar' because he is a clear upgrade in player quality. Locke's attitude shouldn't have been a factor at that point, he wasn't playing badly either.

... and now we're chasing Josh Hoffman?

So that means maybe Tomkins to halves, but that is pretty stupid too because it kills the Townsend signing (who was doing fine) and also Leuluai who is perceived as crucial to the team.
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Locke's attitude stretches way back beyond this year, trust me. Not the player you want in your club... Locke wasn't playing badly but he wasn't playing that great either, and the Warriors were desperate to land a 'superstar'.

Perhaps the club realises that Tomkins is better in the halves, im inclined to agree, I dont care where he goes he will do good in either position IMO - however I would be interested to see how he will go as a 6, personally I think better, unless he bulks up a couple kegs or gains back some explosiveness.

Townsend is only ever going to be an okay player, and was signed without the promise of first grade, so it doesn't bother me what we do with him (I do like him though).

I think the plan was to always move TL into hooker, I thought it would have been this year but the club obviously wants to keep Friend around as well. Long term I still think that's where he'll fit in.

I for one would love to see J Hoffman here, im really rate him.
 
vvvrulz

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,625
Newspapers say we're chasing Hoffman for centre specifically.
Which makes some sense if we're not going to land Matai
 
T

TheViking

Juniors
Messages
335
vvvrulz said:
Newspapers say we're chasing Hoffman for centre specifically.
Which makes some sense if we're not going to land Matai
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I can't understand that. Hoffman isn't a centre. He is a solid fullback or a good winger.

Why would the Warriors want to take that risk...

Further more why would Hoffman turn down other fullback options. I'm sure there is 3-4 clubs who would want him for a fullback which is meant to be his desired position.

I'd imagine if Warriors sign him it's for fullback. Tomkins to 6 and then if the story of his homesickness being true perhaps released soon.
 
vvvrulz

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,625
Don't want to see Tomkins at 6 as he is finally finding his groove at the back.
Another 5-6 weeks of 'learning' we don't need.

Wing and centres are covered reasonably well with Manu, Fish, Hurrell and Laumape at full strength... with Fusitua and Nielson to backup (the depth isn't great but its good enough for backup players). Looking back at this season none of these guys were the big problem anyway.

If we sign Hoffman or Matai then we upset the apple cart a bit, one or two good players are going to disappear to another club.

Our issue is a misfiring forward pack and our overall on-field attitude.
Fix those!
 
TheDMC

TheDMC

Bench
Messages
3,419
Packy said:
Hoffman is a really good winger. If only he would embrace that.
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Yep, 2x better winger than fullback, and 1 squizallion times better winger than in the halves.

I don't want a fullback who cannot pass for shit.
 
T

tangalife

Juniors
Messages
530
I'm still actually suprised he's stayed with the Bronco's this long after being put into so many diff positions, and Bulldogs needing a FB.

Hell i'd give him a go at centre here, I think he would be good enough there. Ideally i'd like to see 1. Hoffman and 6. Tomkins.
 
TheDMC

TheDMC

Bench
Messages
3,419
Whilst Tomkins may make a good 6 in theory - in practice would he be a good 6 in combination with Johnson as 7?

Would be an incredibly dynamic halves pairing - great runners and passers and plenty of creative vision - but solid nous and basic skills to control a game and grind out territory through pinpoint kicking or subtle yet simple options? Not convinced. Neither are defensively very strong either.

Maybe a steady hand like Townsend is a better foil for Johnson...and I am still completely bemused why Townsend was suddenly dropped by McFadden at the arse end of the season. Townsend showed more than enough signs of being a quality half.

Townsend over TL for halves. His kicking game alone enough point of difference.

Unless TL can wrest the hooker role from Friend, he pretty much should start 2015 as a bench utility for hooker/half.

Tomkins stay at fullback.

Hoffman if he comes can fight it out for wing/center position.
 
JJ

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,718
TheDMC said:
Whilst Tomkins may make a good 6 in theory - in practice would he be a good 6 in combination with Johnson as 7?

Would be an incredibly dynamic halves pairing - great runners and passers and plenty of creative vision - but solid nous and basic skills to control a game and grind out territory through pinpoint kicking or subtle yet simple options? Not convinced. Neither are defensively very strong either.

Maybe a steady hand like Townsend is a better foil for Johnson...and I am still completely bemused why Townsend was suddenly dropped by McFadden at the arse end of the season. Townsend showed more than enough signs of being a quality half.

Townsend over TL for halves. His kicking game alone enough point of difference.

Unless TL can wrest the hooker role from Friend, he pretty much should start 2015 as a bench utility for hooker/half.

Tomkins stay at fullback.

Hoffman if he comes can fight it out for wing/center position.
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If they did sign Hoffman and they don't want Tomkins at 6, I'd be looking to do something like the Roosters do - Tomkins plays fullback when we have the ball (as per RTS to an extent) and Hoffman plays fullback when we don't - Tomkins defence and returns are not a strength...

To me, unfortunately Johnson, Townsend, Leuluai and Tomkins each have rather profound weaknesses - without Hoffman it's clear (although not to McFadden, apparently) that 1 Tomkins, 6 Townsend, and 7 Johnson is the best combination. Tomkins can play in the halves, but his defence is ordinary, as is his kicking
 
vvvrulz

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,625
JJ said:
Tomkins can play in the halves, but his defence is ordinary, as is his kicking
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Tomkins kicks reasonably well although not often enough to really judge.
He'd be a better bet than TL though who has no kicking game, period.

Agree on defence, not through a lack of effort but he gets run over far too easily

Townsend is the best 6 we have right now.
 
JJ

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,718
vvvrulz said:
Tomkins kicks reasonably well although not often enough to really judge.
He'd be a better bet than TL though who has no kicking game, period.

Agree on defence, not through a lack of effort but he gets run over far too easily

Townsend is the best 6 we have right now.
Click to expand...

ordinary for a first grade half I'd have thought, at least from limited viewing it seems a bit hit and miss... but yeah, my guesses at ordering
Kicking
1. Johnson
2. Townsend
3. Tomkins
4. Leuluai

Defence
1. Leuluai
2. Townsend
3. Johnson (little between him and Townsend)
4. Tomkins

I agree Townsend is the best 6, but on most things he'll rank 2nd or 3rd, I'd imagine - I see no reason to shift Tomkins there ahead of him (but there was less to shift Leuluai there ahead of him)

If they are chasing Hoffman, I think he has to play some fullback, because he's a much better defender and kick returner than Tomkins... but, despite not being a Tomkins fan-boy I'm not seeing a need to chase a fullback, not least a full back to play centre (where I am happy with Laumape and Hurrell anyway)....

Happy to chase upgrades at 6 and 9, or better still 8, 10, and 13 (excluding Lillyman from that, but to be honest we can't keep people like Rapira, Matagi, Ihikahifo and to an extent Matulino in regular spots on the basis of what they might do, or what they once did) - the pack needs a real shake up imo - only Mannering, Lillyman and Hoffman should feel safe (and they can be trusted that if they feel safe they won't relax)
 
vvvrulz

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,625
JJ said:
Happy to chase upgrades at 6 and 9, or better still 8, 10, and 13 (excluding Lillyman from that, but to be honest we can't keep people like Rapira, Matagi, Ihikahifo and to an extent Matulino in regular spots on the basis of what they might do, or what they once did) - the pack needs a real shake up imo - only Mannering, Lillyman and Hoffman should feel safe (and they can be trusted that if they feel safe they won't relax)
Click to expand...

Bit harsh on Ikahihifo who was solid enough, but the rest absolutely need to pull their heads in.

Management are desperate for big signings without really thinking about who gets dumped. In my opinion the backs are fine, 6 and 9 are adequate and a couple of forwards possibly can come in.

But we're going to end up with a large pool of players stuck in no mans land, either Vulcanised or playing out of position. We won't know what to do with one of Leuluai/Townsend/Friend, Seb, Alwood, Lousi, Nielson, Lolohea just to name a few. Where does Henry fit in?

Sign Hoffman or Matai and we add Fish, Fusitua into the void
 
JJ

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,718
vvvrulz said:
Bit harsh on Ikahihifo who was solid enough, but the rest absolutely need to pull their heads in.

Management are desperate for big signings without really thinking about who gets dumped. In my opinion the backs are fine, 6 and 9 are adequate and a couple of forwards possibly can come in.

But we're going to end up with a large pool of players stuck in no mans land, either Vulcanised or playing out of position. We won't know what to do with one of Leuluai/Townsend/Friend, Seb, Alwood, Lousi, Nielson, Lolohea just to name a few. Where does Henry fit in?

Sign Hoffman or Matai and we add Fish, Fusitua into the void
Click to expand...

Yep, Seb was ok - happy to invest in his development, but Lillyman was the only one doing top-notch job in the centre, Seb is ok if Matulino and Rapira play like they're supposed to.

I am staggered they re-signed Leuluai, or for the fans both Leuluai and Friend.

I agree that the back are not where attention is needed - for me it's the middle forwards, they seem happy Matulino, Rapira and Matagi are those guys, but to be honest that's based on performance from the past, in some cases the distant past
 
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