Punishment for poor nines squads

[shiznit]

I think people are missing the point....

This isn't about the merits of clubs playing stacked nines squads vs clubs concentrating on the NRL regular season.

It's about clubs not adhering with what they are contractually obliged to do.

My understanding is that prior to the agreement being made with the Auckland council every club had to sign a participation agreement which guarenteed that each squad has to contain 12 of the top 25 squad including 1 of the top 5 earners.

No one is asking them to play there best players... Just that they follow up with what they agreed to...

 

[rabbitohs95]

There shouldn't be a punishment but there should be more incentive to get teams to use their best possible squad. Maybe the team that wins gets to choose where their byes are during the next season? So if the Cowboys won it this year then they could set both their byes during the Origin period in 2016?

 

[Canard]

I think people are missing the point....

This isn't about the merits of clubs playing stacked nines squads vs clubs concentrating on the NRL regular season.

It's about clubs not adhering with what they are contractually obliged to do.

My understanding is that prior to the agreement being made with the Auckland council every club had to sign a participation agreement which guarenteed that each squad has to contain 12 of the top 25 squad including 1 of the top 5 earners.

No one is asking them to play there best players... Just that they follow up with what they agreed to...

Is there any evidence they aren't? Other than some speculation by posters in this thread?

 

[franklin2323]

Is that enough though??

There are teams like the Warriors, Manly, Newcastle, Souths etc... Who have played ball and have named very good strong sides and only 1 of them can win..

I don't think it's fair for the other clubs who have done the right thing and made the effort to send good squads over for the league just let it slide.

Look at Newcastle... Jarrod Mullen's season was ruined by his injury he picked up at the nines... Yet they made him available again this season.

How fair is it that some teams play ball for the good of the game and others just ignore it because it doesn't suit there own interests.

Im not gonna just pick on Penrith here... I mean look at the Storm... They plunder NZ's playing talent by the plane load... Yet when it comes to doing something that will actually help grow the game in NZ old bellyache is having a whinge...

They want stronger sides move it closer to the season starting. It was moved for the cricket world cup. The result is players being 2 weeks behind schedule from this time last year.

 

[shiznit]

Is there any evidence they aren't? Other than some speculation by posters in this thread?

There's no confirmation that anyone hasn't yet...

Only speculation from some of the media that the NRL are investigating 2 of the squads...

The question I'm asking is what should the NRL do if they aren't meeting that minimum requirement.

No one is advocating that clubs play all there superstars... Just that they play that minimum...

 

[mxlegend99]

I think people are missing the point....

This isn't about the merits of clubs playing stacked nines squads vs clubs concentrating on the NRL regular season.

It's about clubs not adhering with what they are contractually obliged to do.

My understanding is that prior to the agreement being made with the Auckland council every club had to sign a participation agreement which guarenteed that each squad has to contain 12 of the top 25 squad including 1 of the top 5 earners.

No one is asking them to play there best players... Just that they follow up with what they agreed to...

What happens when 13+ of the top 25 are unavailable through legitimate means, and none of the top 5 are able to play?

We're also not sure who the top earners are at each club. The top 2 or 3 might be obvious at most clubs, but after that we have no idea what sort of contracts these players are on.

My guess at the Panthers top 5:
Jamal Idris
Jamie Soward
Elijah Taylor
Sika Manu
Lewis Brown

The likes of Moylan, Segeyaro, Whare, Mansour etc. could have negotiated new contracts that put them ahead of the money it took to bring those guys here. But I would imagine those guys were the most expensive to lure here originally. Much more established at the time of signing them.

But again, it's simply a guess. None of our players stand out as clearly better or more valuable then the rest. Simply have guys who are harder to replace due to depth in those positions.

 

[shiznit]

They want stronger sides move it closer to the season starting. It was moved for the cricket world cup. The result is players being 2 weeks behind schedule from this time last year.

After feedback from the clubs they adjusted the squad requirements due to the fact that it was starting earlier...

That increased the numbers... And gave more time in between games to rest.

However they never changed the minimum requirements around the composition of the squad.

 

[franklin2323]

I think people are missing the point....

This isn't about the merits of clubs playing stacked nines squads vs clubs concentrating on the NRL regular season.

It's about clubs not adhering with what they are contractually obliged to do.

My understanding is that prior to the agreement being made with the Auckland council every club had to sign a participation agreement which guarenteed that each squad has to contain 12 of the top 25 squad including 1 of the top 5 earners.

No one is asking them to play there best players... Just that they follow up with what they agreed to...

I will use Penrith as an example

DWZ
Whare
Moylan
Brown

All have been training since the new year after 4 nations.

Idris
Mansour

Will miss the 1st month of the comp with injuries

Soward pulled out of All Stars (Which is 2 weeks later) as he won't be right

Simmons
Segeyaro
Wallace
Cartwright
Peachey
Taylor

All are coming back at various Stages during the pre-season due to injuries

Kite
Plum

2 30yo props are the sort of players we need to keep away from 9's

So 15 players unavailable. I am sure other clubs have similar issues so have named teams accordingly.

Who do you think will put the body on the line more a fringe FG or a test player trying not to be injured?

 

[franklin2323]

After feedback from the clubs they adjusted the squad requirements due to the fact that it was starting earlier...

That increased the numbers... And gave more time in between games to rest.

However they never changed the minimum requirements around the composition of the squad.

See my post above. 4 weeks out from the season some players just won't be right remembering the mass withdrawals the 4 nations had

 

[shiznit]

What happens when 13+ of the top 25 are unavailable through legitimate means, and none of the top 5 are able to play?

We're also not sure who the top earners are at each club. The top 2 or 3 might be obvious at most clubs, but after that we have no idea what sort of contracts these players are on.

My guess at the Panthers top 5:
Jamal Idris
Jamie Soward
Elijah Taylor
Sika Manu
Lewis Brown

The likes of Moylan, Segeyaro, Whare, Mansour etc. could have negotiated new contracts that put them ahead of the money it took to bring those guys here. But I would imagine those guys were the most expensive to lure here originally. Much more established at the time of signing them.

But again, it's simply a guess. None of our players stand out as clearly better or more valuable then the rest. Simply have guys who are harder to replace due to depth in those positions.

There's always anomalies... If they have genuine injuries then I'm sure the NRL and Penrith can sort something out...

But when you have Ivan Cleary coming out saying that they had study's done about the injuries sustained at last years tournament and complaining the ground is too hard.. You have to ask the question about Penrith's 'resting' of players

It almost sounded like they were trying to get the excuses ready even before the injuries came.

 

[franklin2323]

What happens when 13+ of the top 25 are unavailable through legitimate means, and none of the top 5 are able to play?

We're also not sure who the top earners are at each club. The top 2 or 3 might be obvious at most clubs, but after that we have no idea what sort of contracts these players are on.

My guess at the Panthers top 5:
Jamal Idris
Jamie Soward
Elijah Taylor
Sika Manu
Lewis Brown

The likes of Moylan, Segeyaro, Whare, Mansour etc. could have negotiated new contracts that put them ahead of the money it took to bring those guys here. But I would imagine those guys were the most expensive to lure here originally. Much more established at the time of signing them.

But again, it's simply a guess. None of our players stand out as clearly better or more valuable then the rest. Simply have guys who are harder to replace due to depth in those positions.

of your top 5 we have 1 fit and he's playing.

I count 15 out so not much we can do. If it was 2 weeks from the season or something we'd expect close to full strength teams

 

[franklin2323]

There's always anomalies... If they have genuine injuries then I'm sure the NRL and Penrith can sort something out...

But when you have Ivan Cleary coming out saying that they had study's done about the injuries sustained at last years tournament and complaining the ground is too hard.. You have to ask the question about Penrith's 'resting' of players

It almost sounded like they were trying to get the excuses ready even before the injuries came.

Did you not see the side we had in the PF? We could of played in December none would of been fine to go. 2 more get injured in 4 nations etc it's easy for the unavailables to build up

 

[shiznit]

I will use Penrith as an example

DWZ
Whare
Moylan
Brown

All have been training since the new year after 4 nations.

Idris
Mansour

Will miss the 1st month of the comp with injuries

Soward pulled out of All Stars (Which is 2 weeks later) as he won't be right

Simmons
Segeyaro
Wallace
Cartwright
Peachey
Taylor

All are coming back at various Stages during the pre-season due to injuries

Kite
Plum

2 30yo props are the sort of players we need to keep away from 9's

So 15 players unavailable. I am sure other clubs have similar issues so have named teams accordingly.

Who do you think will put the body on the line more a fringe FG or a test player trying not to be injured?

DWZ & Moylan... Neither of them played a minute of the 4 Nations...

Unless they are injured(and they could be as I know DWZ withdrew because of injury) why couldn't they play in the tournament??

I mean Shaun Johnson, Sam Tomkins, DCE, Jason Nightingale & Kieran Foran all played the entire 4 Nations tournament yet they have no problems playing in the nines...

Edit- just to be clear I'm not picking on Penrith... They were just the example... Last year they were good sports... Elijah Taylor & co were on the sidelines interacting with the crowd, signing autographs and taking photos...

 

[Noname36]

No the 9's are not a genuine trial for an NRL club, the main benefit from a trial is a chance to see how the structures, strategies and playing style that have been put in place are progressing against an external opponent.

Sure that's part of it but testing who is and isn't up to fitness for the regular is a big part of it too. I can guarantee you that if the Nines highlights to a coach some players that may be down on fitness or even rusty on some basic skills he's going to be bloody happy it was identified now rather than in a 20 minute run in a trial two weeks before the season starts when there isn't enough time left to fix the problem.

 

[franklin2323]

DWZ & Moylan... Neither of them played a minute of the 4 Nations...

Unless they are injured(and they could be as I know DWZ withdrew because of injury) why couldn't they play in the tournament??

I mean Shaun Johnson, Sam Tomkins, DCE, Jason Nightingale & Kieran Foran all played the entire 4 Nations tournament yet they have no problems playing in the nines...

DWZ is still injured. They had time off as a result of still training. Maybe they came straight back to club training? Our 4 nations guys had until 5 Jan off so 3 weeks training they will be under done.

I would love to see us at full strength guys like Seg, Peachey etc would carve up but I also want them to play 24 rounds... A few already will be missing for round 1. So a weakened team it is. Not terrible by any stretch but weakened none the less.

Yeah I know. I am only using us because I know where we stand injury wise. If they can be late Feb in future like last year we will get stronger squads all round

 

[betcats]

Peachey is coming off a season ending injury and has is playing in the all stars match along with Moylan. I'd almost be annoyed if either of them was sent over to the nines given how important both will be for our upcoming season. I think it should be wholly up to the clubs and players what they want to risk in the 9s.

 

[shiznit]

DWZ is still injured. They had time off as a result of still training. Maybe they came straight back to club training? Our 4 nations guys had until 5 Jan off so 3 weeks training they will be under done.

I would love to see us at full strength guys like Seg, Peachey etc would carve up but I also want them to play 24 rounds... A few already will be missing for round 1. So a weakened team it is. Not terrible by any stretch but weakened none the less.

Yeah I know. I am only using us because I know where we stand injury wise. If they can be late Feb in future like last year we will get stronger squads all round

Yeah if clubs genuinely can't field a team within the regulations then fair enough... I'm sure they can work something out with the NRL...

But what I'm getting here are clubs that maybe avoiding playing that minimum requirement on purpose...

Last year the majority of the big stars didn't play in the tournament... But each club managed to meet that minimum requirement.

 

[franklin2323]

Peachey is coming off a season ending injury and has is playing in the all stars match along with Moylan. I'd almost be annoyed if either of them was sent over to the nines given how important both will be for our upcoming season. I think it should be wholly up to the clubs and players what they want to risk in the 9s.

All stars is bad enough but atleast is 2 weeks later

 

[shiznit]

Peachey is coming off a season ending injury and has is playing in the all stars match along with Moylan. I'd almost be annoyed if either of them was sent over to the nines given how important both will be for our upcoming season. I think it should be wholly up to the clubs and players what they want to risk in the 9s.

Then why sign a participation agreement committing the club to providing a certain squad??

 

[cleary89]

If they cant field a team within the rules take half their winnings off them