QLD doesn't need another team

[Travitoh]

They actually don't. Both arguments for a second Queensland team fall flat; if it's another composite Brisbane team that plays out of Suncorp what attracts people to them who weren't already Broncos fans? If it's an upjumped QRL team, who supports them outside of their local area and that's assuming those fans don't already follow an existing team.

Real expansion needs to happen outside areas that already have access to regular top-flight games. Queensland already has 3 teams.

This is actually a very good post and makes a lot of sense. If the aim is to expand rugby league, Brisbane2 can easily be skipped in favour of Perth and Adelaide where a team will attract new people to the game.

 

[Perth Red]

This is actually a very good post and makes a lot of sense. If the aim is to expand rugby league, Brisbane2 can easily be skipped in favour of Perth and Adelaide where a team will attract new people to the game.

Nrlhq is about making money. Brisbane2 is where the money is, perth adds game expansion.

 

[Western_Eel]

Nrlhq is about making money. Brisbane2 is where the money is, perth adds game expansion.

How is there money in a second Brisbane team? who's going to support them? because the broncos supporters are not going to. i think it will be a big fail

 

[The Great Dane]

How is there money in a second Brisbane team? who's going to support them? because the broncos supporters are not going to. i think it will be a big fail

The money is in the broadcasters, sponsors, and corporates that are all champing at the bit to throw money at a second Brisbane team.

If the NRL and the club it's self play their cards right (i.e. don't f**k the branding, have good community engagement, build a competitive team, etc) then the support will come from the literally tens of thousands of people from/in Brisbane that love RL but hate the Broncos.

The initial core of the fan base will probably be mainly made up of people who are picking up the team as their second team and then grow from there (which is the case for almost every club), that is assuming that the club is well run.

The problem with a second Brisbane club isn't the concept of a second team in a city in of it's self, all the examples of having cities with two well run and well supported teams prove that not only can it work, but that on occasion it can be massively successful and that the rivalry created can grow so big and culturally important that it basically makes the sport in that city, and in some rare cases has a significant impact on the sports reach globally.

The problem with a second Brisbane team is that most of the proposed clubs to be the second team have been terrible ideas for clubs that would either alienate most of the potential fan base before they had even begun (insert the suburban clubs and BRL/QRL clubs looking to make the jump to the NRL), spread themselves to thin by trying to represent regions outside of Brisbane as well instead of just focusing on Brisbane (the Titans relocation talk is a good example of that), or are carbon copies of the Broncos that would end up just cannibalising the Broncos support instead of engaging with the potentially huge base of fans that aren't interested in the Broncos or an aggressive corporate club like them (the Bombers are a good example).

So yeah, though I would agree that as things stand none of the current Brisbane bids fit what the NRL needs in a second Brisbane club, and the NRL would be smart to hold off on expanding to Brisbane until a better option presents it's self (or create a better option themselves), that doesn't mean that a second Brisbane club is an inherently a bad idea.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

The problem with a second Brisbane team is that most of the proposed clubs to be the second team have been terrible ideas for clubs that would either alienate most of the potential fan base before they had even begun (insert the suburban clubs and BRL/QRL clubs looking to make the jump to the NRL), .

In your opinion of course

 

[The Great Dane]

In your opinion of course

I've seen it happen to many times, the rich local club that everybody except the members of that club hates with a passion gets a license in a higher tier competition, they bank on the whole market supporting them for the new team to be feasible but decide to keep their "historic" brand.

Because of that decision to keep the "historic" brand that most of their target audience hates or associates with bad things, most of the target audience feels alienated and refuse to support a team that they hate, and as a result the support and turnout for the team is minuscule compared to what the club expected and they make a massive loss on the new team which throws the whole club into anarchy.

Then eventually after a few years of making losses because most of their target audience was alienated at the beginning, the club gets desperate and tries to change the brand in a token way to get those people that they alienated through the gate, which just pisses them off more because they feel like they are being patronised, and it's all a shit show from there until the club runs out of money to bankroll the club.

The best example of this happening recently that I know of is the Vikings NRC team, they're up to the token gesture phase- https://www.smh.com.au/sport/canber...ras-jersey-in-nrc-opener-20170831-gy7w4d.html

So yeah to call it simply an "opinion" when it's been observed happening repeatably is a little bit rich...

 

[ReddFelon]

The promoted "historical ties" team being a dud is definitely true to a degree. The only time I've seen it work on the national level is with Port Adelaide and that's a very specific situation where the club had a hundred+ years at the top tier where they'd won 38 Premierships.

The only reason they were able to attract a strong fanbase was that they were promoted into the AFL only a few years after the first South Australian team had been added meaning their fanbase hadn't left them for the newly formed team, even then they still haven't been as successful as the Crows who are seen as a unified SA team.

Souths-Logan, Ipswich and Redcliffe will do nothing but alienate the fans in the other two areas. There might be some who link up with the promoted team, but most folks in Ipswich who follow the Jets won't swap out for the Magpies or Dolphins just because they exist. In the exact same way changing Easts, Balmain and Canterbury-Bankstown to "Sydney" didn't suddenly open them up to all these new fans they were expecting.

 

[The Great Dane]

The promoted "historical ties" team being a dud is definitely true to a degree. The only time I've seen it work on the national level is with Port Adelaide and that's a very specific situation where the club had a hundred+ years at the top tier where they'd won 38 Premierships.

The only reason they were able to attract a strong fanbase was that they were promoted into the AFL only a few years after the first South Australian team had been added meaning their fanbase hadn't left them for the newly formed team, even then they still haven't been as successful as the Crows who are seen as a unified SA team.

The reason that it worked for Port Adelaide is the same reason it worked for the Queanbeyan Blues, both were forced by circumstance and their respective governing bodies to disassociate their national team from their local team with unique brands.

If they hadn't have become the Port Adelaide Power and the Canberra Raiders instead of the Magpies (obviously they couldn't stay the Magpies) and Queanbeyan/Canberra Blues they'd both at least be much smaller clubs then they are now, or more likely, would have folded a long time ago.

Even with the brand changes both struggled to dissociate their national brands from their local teams for years, and to this day people still call the Raiders the "Queanbeyan Raiders" as a pejorative from time to time (I wouldn't be surprised if Port Adelaide experience a similar thing as well).

Though the situation vastly is different, you see a similar thing with the Wests Tigers as well, as people (right up to commentators and journalists) are constantly still referring to them as "Balmain" to this day.

Souths-Logan, Ipswich and Redcliffe will do nothing but alienate the fans in the other two areas. There might be some who link up with the promoted team, but most folks in Ipswich who follow the Jets won't swap out for the Magpies or Dolphins just because they exist. In the exact same way changing Easts, Balmain and Canterbury-Bankstown to "Sydney" didn't suddenly open them up to all these new fans they were expecting.

Yep pretty much exactly that.

Just because you change the geographic signifier doesn't mean that you wash away what people associate with the brand, and as with most sports teams if you don't support that team then it's more likely then not that you're going to have a negative association with that team (and it's brand), and as you can imagine it's extremely damaging to a new business when the majority of you're target audience has a negative opinion of you from the get go.

 

[Travitoh]

Port Adelaide are the small team in Adelaide without a doubt, having already struggled financially in their time and should recent results continue, they'll struggle again.

 

[mongoose]

Souths-Logan, Ipswich and Redcliffe will do nothing but alienate the fans in the other two areas. There might be some who link up with the promoted team, but most folks in Ipswich who follow the Jets won't swap out for the Magpies or Dolphins just because they exist. In the exact same way changing Easts, Balmain and Canterbury-Bankstown to "Sydney" didn't suddenly open them up to all these new fans they were expecting.

I think in the beginning it will alienate fans from other areas but over time it's about growing its brand and fanbase not just locally but nationally. Demographics of cities are always changing and a club like the Dolphins shouldn't be aiming to attract rusted on League fans from Ipwsich. I do think that if Redcliffe is promoted then they should consider becoming Brisbane Dolphins or South QLD Dolphins though to maximize sponsorship opportunity and attract a wider base of fans.

 

[Diesel]

Moreton Bay or Brisbane seem to be the smarter options. SQ sounds too generic when there is already 2 other teams in SEQ and risk it becoming GWS

 

[mongoose]

Moreton Bay or Brisbane seem to be the smarter options. SQ sounds too generic when there is already 2 other teams in SEQ and risk it becoming GWS

yeah maybe... South QLD kind of mirrors North QLD though. I like Moreton Bay as well except not many people know exactly what Moreton bay is.

 

[The Great Dane]

I think in the beginning it will alienate fans from other areas but over time it's about growing its brand and fanbase not just locally but nationally. Demographics of cities are always changing and a club like the Dolphins shouldn't be aiming to attract rusted on League fans from Ipwsich.

If a second Brisbane team is going to be successful then that is literally exactly what they should be doing though.

The whole point of a second Brisbane club is the money that it'll make from broadcasters, sponsors, corporate, and other investors that are interested in a second Brisbane club, if it's not a big club that draws interest like the Broncos, and that can also compete with the Broncos, then that financial interest will pretty quickly die down, and if it dies down then not only is adding a second club to Brisbane pointless but the club will struggle perpetually as the Broncos 'little brother' until it collapses (in a similar fashion to the Titans...), and the only way that a second Brisbane club is going to compete with the Broncos is if it's a big city wide uniting club.

Also what is it with people wanting to turn Brisbane into Sydney light with a club representing every region and suburb, firstly the NRL doesn't have space in the competition for more then two or three Brisbane clubs (preferably two) and even if we did why would we want to replicate what's happened in Sydney, Sydney's a disaster.

I do think that if Redcliffe is promoted then they should consider becoming Brisbane Dolphins or South QLD Dolphins though to maximize sponsorship opportunity and attract a wider base of fans.

Even that won't be enough.

Most of the people that aren't Dolphins fans will still refuse to support the Dolphins, and that will restrict their fan base for generations until the stigma of the Dolphins being a Redcliffe club washes away.

If we want the second Brisbane team to have the best chance of success then we've got to go with a neutral brand.

 

[Diesel]

I wonder if the Crushers set on the SQ name because it mirrored NQ as a point of difference. I personally don’t have anything against a team called SQ, I was just playing devils advocate.

I remember when the Crushers first formed they called themselves Brisbane Crushers and South-East Queensland Crushers before settling on South Queensland Crushers

 

[Diesel]

A second Brisbane team will cannibalise corporate support of the Reds and Lions as well as casual supporters.
Bring them in NOW!

 

[greg]

A second Brisbane team will cannibalise corporate support of the Reds and Lions as well as casual supporters.
Bring them in NOW!

This. A good chance to consolidate our game. One team only in brisbane is just wrong. The broncos will still survive they just wont have corporate support and pick of best juniors served to them on a platter like they have.

 

[mongoose]

If a second Brisbane team is going to be successful then that is literally exactly what they should be doing though.

The whole point of a second Brisbane club is the money that it'll make from broadcasters, sponsors, corporate, and other investors that are interested in a second Brisbane club, if it's not a big club that draws interest like the Broncos, and that can also compete with the Broncos, then that financial interest will pretty quickly die down, and if it dies down then not only is adding a second club to Brisbane pointless but the club will struggle perpetually as the Broncos 'little brother' until it collapses (in a similar fashion to the Titans...), and the only way that a second Brisbane club is going to compete with the Broncos is if it's a big city wide uniting club.

Also what is it with people wanting to turn Brisbane into Sydney light with a club representing every region and suburb, firstly the NRL doesn't have space in the competition for more then two or three Brisbane clubs (preferably two) and even if we did why would we want to replicate what's happened in Sydney, Sydney's a disaster.



Even that won't be enough.

Most of the people that aren't Dolphins fans will still refuse to support the Dolphins, and that will restrict their fan base for generations until the stigma of the Dolphins being a Redcliffe club washes away.

If we want the second Brisbane team to have the best chance of success then we've got to go with a neutral brand.

No second team is not going to come close to having what the Broncos have, so get that idea out of your head. It will take decades to compete with them if ever at all. A brand new neutral franchise is most likely going to be comparable to the Titans or Cowboys when they first entered. The Broncos are the biggest, richest, most supported club in the NRL.

Another thing Brisbane isn't comparable to Adelaide or Perth. While League is easily the number 1 game here, people don't live and breath it the same way they do AFL in those southern capitals . Brisbane has the Lions and Reds who have solid support and are part of sporting landscape in Brisbane. Those two southern capitals don't have anything except AFL. AFL is given free air every single night. I would say those cities were absolutely begging for 2nd AFL teams before they entered, Brisbane is trickier as the collective attention is split up a lot more.

 

[ReddFelon]

No second team is not going to come close to having what the Broncos have, so get that idea out of your head. It will take decades to compete with them if ever at all. A brand new neutral franchise is most likely going to be comparable to the Titans or Cowboys when they first entered. The Broncos are the biggest, richest, most supported club in the NRL.

Another thing Brisbane isn't comparable to Adelaide or Perth. While League is easily the number 1 game here, people don't live and breath it the same way they do AFL in those southern capitals . Brisbane has the Lions and Reds who have solid support and are part of sporting landscape in Brisbane. Those two southern capitals don't have anything except AFL. AFL is given free air every single night. I would say those cities were absolutely begging for 2nd AFL teams before they entered, Brisbane is trickier as the collective attention is split up a lot more.

Do not ever again refer to Perth as a southern capital you absolute chode. It's also a load of bullshit that Perth has nothing but the AFL. WA have the biggest BBL and NBL crowds and strong support for smaller sports across the board. It's glaringly obvious that you're talking out of your ass. WA and SA simply have better sporting cultures than the East. From tennis to soccer they beat everyone on a per capita basis and often on just a pure attendance basis.

 

[mongoose]

Do not ever again refer to Perth as a southern capital you absolute chode. It's also a load of bullshit that Perth has nothing but the AFL. WA have the biggest BBL and NBL crowds and strong support for smaller sports across the board. It's glaringly obvious that you're talking out of your ass. WA and SA simply have better sporting cultures than the East. From tennis to soccer they beat everyone on a per capita basis and often on just a pure attendance basis.

Last time i checked the BBL and NBL don't play during winter, you know when AFL is on? The Perth Glory get terrible crowds as well, so not sure what you're on about.
Since you know so much about Perth, tell me what competes with the West Coast Eagles and Fremantle during the year? League? nope, Union? nope, soccer, BBL and NBL are all during the summer.

 

[ReddFelon]

Last time i checked the BBL and NBL don't play during winter, you know when AFL is on? The Perth Glory get terrible crowds as well, so not sure what you're on about.
Since you know so much about Perth, tell me what competes with the West Coast Eagles and Fremantle during the year? League? nope, Union? nope, soccer, BBL and NBL are all during the summer.

Having lived in Perth for well over a decade yeah, I know a lot more about it than someone who refers to it as "Southern".

Both Union and League did compete quite successfully with the AFL, the Reds used to average crowds of 18000 during the time, so too the Force prior to the absolute shambles of the ARU at one point brought in crowds in the 20000+ range, even last year running friendlies against international sides they were bringing in crowd averages of 15,000.

The dumbest thing that gets said about Perth by people who've never lived there is that it's some AFL crazy state like Victoria. It isn't, the AFL only dominates because of all the major sports they're the only ones who haven't been undermined by interstate administrations that made it impossible to succeed. The Reds were forced to pay other teams to play against them, paying airfares and accomodation for visiting teams was an absolute joke, the same was true for the Force, made to play with a lower salary cap than other Australian teams to limit their access to top flight talent. The Glory pulled in 56000 this year for their grand final against Sydney and 18000+ crowds during their home finals. They do pull shit crowds averaging the 10,000 mark, this is endemic to the A-League in general though who have seen a massive drop in support and interest ever since access to Premier League and UEFA Champions League has been made available to Soccer fans wanting to watch the highest level of the sport.



On a grassroots level WA has had massive support for both League and Union historically and the only times either code has had a drop in interest at the club level has been when admin in the East f**ked them around. 36 Rugby clubs across WA with 22 based in Perth and 27 Rugby League clubs across WA with 12 based in Perth (and multiple applications for new clubs being processed) demonstrates the support for winter sports outside of the AFL.