Quade Cooper knocks back Parramatta Eels offer to switch to NRL and sticks with Union

[84 Baby]

Pocock is the mach 2 and mach 3 Ray Price & Wayne Pearce.
Best player on the field and one of the very best players in the world in either Yawnion or League.
Gees, we could do with signing him up as our lock - can easily play 2nd row too.

Quade looked sick - wonder if he was crook overnight?

Pocock's union skills aren't convertible to league. He would make a good but average league backrower. The job of flankers, particularly on the openside, is to disrupt the opposition's attacking flow and get the ball back. Due to league being a more expansive game, that skill means he would basically be Hindy or a David Stagg type player. Good, almost necessary to have, but no point in splashing out millions to get one.

Union to league goes:
Fullbacks play fullback, maybe 5/8th
Wingers play wing or centre
Outside centres play centre or 2nd row
Inside centres play fullback, centre or 5/8th
Fly halfs play fullback, 5/8th or halfback
Scrum halfs play hooker, maybe halfback
No. 8s play 2nd row
Openside flankers play lock
Blindside flankers play lock or 2nd row
Locks play 2nd row or prop
Props play prop
Hookers play prop

As Caylo said the basic skills are interchangeable, but union requires especially for the forwards to have an extra set of skills in srummaging, rucking and mauling that are essentially useless in league. Heck a good scrum in league would get reset or the opposition scrum would break early and probably not get penalised.

 

[84 Baby]

Digby Ione is one who would be a great league player.

I think he'd make as good a winger in league as he is union, but would you really pay him what union is paying him to entice him over? The only ones you'd chase for those dollars would be top line fullbacks, centres & halves to play 1, 6, 7 or 9.

 

[oldmancraigy]

I think he'd make as good a winger in league as he is union, but would you really pay him what union is paying him to entice him over? The only ones you'd chase for those dollars would be top line fullbacks, centres & halves to play 1, 6, 7 or 9.

What is "union" paying him (you mean the ARU?)

The ARU isn't "cashed up" like they were when they signed Wendall, Lote and Rogers. Those guys were signed out of a windfall from the world cup that was held here in Australia.

The amount of cash available to sign top line union players is dwindling, and now being split between 4 australian franchises.
They'd need to bring in 1/4 of the money the NRL brings in to stay competitive on the salary front as of right now - and they don't.

From 2013, the new TV deal will mean that there is far more money in Australia for league players as compared to union players.

 

[oldmancraigy]

That is true but it is because a forward does 1000 times more work off the ball. While the tackle count was 140 v 53 it would have probably been 450 v 250 with tackles off the ball or clearances. Also backs generally kick ahead if isolated because they can turn the ball over so much easier but while the games have their differences they are very much the same.

I have played rugby now for 3 years and its very technical and half the players don't know the rules but apart from the ruck the skills are very interchangeable, I think most #8 and flankers would make awesome wide running backrower (Palu and Samo), most rugby halfback would make awesome hookers (Genia, Burgess) and their flyhalfs and fullbacks would slot into most teams with ease. I think Cooper would probably find League easier because he would have so much more time and it would allow him to run more. Rugby is less a running game and more a rolling game and while they are trying to change it with the new rule it is still pretty easy to slow down the match and play a forward game.

I hear what you're saying, but disagree totally!

The 2 games are very different. League is about aerobic fitness, recycling the 10 and making large amounts of tackling leading to wrestling.
Union is about recycling possession through the ruck - so simply about getting to the breakdown and securing the ball there.

Union forwards are much bigger (110kgs+ is not unusual) - league forwards can't be as big because they need to be fitter and more agile.

 

[84 Baby]

What is "union" paying him (you mean the ARU?)

The ARU isn't "cashed up" like they were when they signed Wendall, Lote and Rogers. Those guys were signed out of a windfall from the world cup that was held here in Australia.

The amount of cash available to sign top line union players is dwindling, and now being split between 4 australian franchises.
They'd need to bring in 1/4 of the money the NRL brings in to stay competitive on the salary front as of right now - and they don't.

From 2013, the new TV deal will mean that there is far more money in Australia for league players as compared to union players.

As an entrenched Wallaby, Ioane earns his salary from QRU, ARU & match payments, and last year he was almost lost to Japanese Rugby until agreeing to a reported $750k deal including 3rd party payments. Thurston supposedly earns $650k from the Cowboys including 3rd parties, would the ARL & QRL pay him an extra $100k for a handful of rep matches a year?

If Ioane, tossing his mind over Australian or Japanese rugby and the offer on the table is $750k, you would have to wonder what an offer from league would have to be. Even if the ARU's money is dwindling, Japanese rugby still seems to be flush with cash.

And this is all for a winger as opposed to the world's premiere halfback

 

[Eels Dude]

Any player with an ARU contract would be getting paid a fair whack you'd think. The average wage of an NRL player would be higher than Rugby... but the gap between what the best RU players are earning and their lower paid ones would be a lot higher. Keep in mind 30 or so players big money... the remaining players would be on part time salaries as they only need to play at top level for 3 months of the year.

 

[Gronk]

As an entrenched Wallaby, Ioane earns his salary from QRU, ARU & match payments, and last year he was almost lost to Japanese Rugby until agreeing to a reported $750k deal including 3rd party payments. Thurston supposedly earns $650k from the Cowboys including 3rd parties, would the ARL & QRL pay him an extra $100k for a handful of rep matches a year?

If Ioane, tossing his mind over Australian or Japanese rugby and the offer on the table is $750k, you would have to wonder what an offer from league would have to be. Even if the ARU's money is dwindling, Japanese rugby still seems to be flush with cash.

And this is all for a winger as opposed to the world's premiere halfback

Jap Rugby is where you can earn some good cash. but you have to be pretty mercenary to want to play a sport in empty stadiums. This is Wings team the NTT Shining Acs (owned by NTT Communications) from Ben Dawin's NTT old boys facebook page.

 

[Parra]

Cooper's decision making was poor & his timing was off. Too many awful kicks.

But his defensive game was no so bad yesterday.

What constantly annoys me is his reluctance to take a hit. Some of his poor decisions yesterday resulted in dropped ball from short passes when the correct option was to drop the shoulder, take the tackle and set up the next play.

He is usually willing to run the ball, but with the defence in his face he looked rushed.

When he is on song he can play and with space he has the time to throw decent passes and he has a fantastic kicking game. With the 10m+ space guaranteed in league and the result that it is easy for a team to roll forward Cooper would make a great half back.

 

[Twizzle]

our scrummaging and line outs were terrible yesterday, kiwis will rape us if we dish that shit out again next weekend

 

[Parra]

Lineouts were unbelievable. Where did that crap come from?

Tactical kicking was awful. I thought the scrum held up OK, but was very messy at the back. Seemed the SA half was offside at every scrum.

No possible excuse for the lineouts though. The Saffas weren't that strong, we just served it up to them.

They must still be wondering how they lost that one.

 

[Twizzle]

for a game of possession and territory, we sure proved everyone wrong as we had neither and still won

on the positive side our defence was excellent and we did score the only try

 

[84 Baby]

Lineouts were unbelievable. Where did that crap come from?

We haven't been strong at lineouts for a very long time.

Tactical kicking was awful. I thought the scrum held up OK, but was very messy at the back. Seemed the SA half was offside at every scrum.

Any good player is offside 90% of the time.

No possible excuse for the lineouts though. The Saffas weren't that strong, we just served it up to them.

They must still be wondering how they lost that one.

Don't discount just how dominant the Boks are in the lineout. They can and do make every team's lineout look shit

 

[Parra]

When their half is between our half & No 8 as the scrum base there is a problem. In any other match this would be an instant penalty. Kudos to their 9 for exploiting it though.

As for the lineouts - this was more due to poor communication than anything the boks contested. Matfield got his usual 'hand in the way' occasionally, but Moore also threw to the back when our lineout bunched, overthrew again on a trick play when we executed perfectly, but for a different throw altogether. It is one thing to lose on a contest, another to just be in disarray. We also pick up the only non-straight throw infringement. It is frustrating to watch.

 

[B-Tron 3000]

What constantly annoys me is his reluctance to take a hit. Some of his poor decisions yesterday resulted in dropped ball from short passes when the correct option was to drop the shoulder, take the tackle and set up the next play.

And one resulted from him dancing around when he had nowhere to go, when again he should have dropped the shoulder and driven forward.

This was what impressed me most about O'Connor. He summed up each situation and most of the time his answer was "run the f***king thing hard, towards a hole if there is one, fight for as many yards as I can get, then fight to get the ball free in the ruck". And it worked.

 

[Tony Bongo]

I would prefer O'Connor but at the same time I have seen QC do too many classy things to say that he isn't an amazing talent.
Out of all the games, I enjoyed watching the Samoans in their last game the most and their line outs were awesome. They left ours for dead when compared to what the Wallabies delivered yesterday.

 

[B-Tron 3000]

Given that Samoa troubled both Wales and SA, it's not a great stretch to imagine them in the semis.

 

[TheParraboy]

kiwis 55-3 in the semi

Cheers

 

[Twizzle]

O'Conner is a gun, love to see him in Eels colours

 

[Fathead]

Buying Quade Cooper will be the biggest mistake since the Crushers shelled out for Garrick Morgan.
He is protected in Rugby where poor performances are often glossed over by old boy connections.
You watch a game of rugby and there are always commentators ready to excuse players who consistantly make basic mistakes.
In League you just cannot make those types of errors and they will be punished most times.
To compare Quade to Benji Marshall is doing benji a massive disservice.

Quades signing may save an election but it will well and truly bankrupt the parramatta eels.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Quades signing may save an election but it will well and truly bankrupt the parramatta eels.

Nope.

Players like him (I'm talking about his profile more than his ability) bring money into their clubs - they more than pay for themselves - and them and their managers and the clubs all know it.

While you need some talent to generate hype in the first place, after a while the hype generates itself and that's where the money comes from, not from playing ability alone.

The people involved in pro sports in the U.S. have known about this for decades (probably because their target audiences were receptive to it long before the rest of the Western world) which is why they carry on like f**kwits. Because hype pays the bills; playing ability is secondary.

Note, when we hear the word 'hype' we think of negatives - superficiality and whatnot - but all 'hype' really means is public interest. Which equals money.

The problem for sports operating under a salary cap is that hype is something you have to pay for but it doesn't bring you results on the field.

So while Quade Cooper might ask for $800k (for argument's sake), and earn his club far more than that through increased exposure, he would still be keeping $800k worth of other players out of his club, when a guy on $400k or less would give the same results on the field. Likewise Sonny Bill Williams.

That's not to say that Quade Cooper at $800k wouldn't be a good aquisition for the NRL (or any club) from a purely financial point of view, but he would hurt whichever club he went to by taking up too much cap space.

This is part of why the NRL's pure salary cap model hurts them when compared to rugby union. But if we can get more money from TV then we can raise the salary cap to the point where players of Quade Cooper's ability can match their value on the field with their value off it.

What it comes down to is being able to pay more for players than the other codes. That way, when Hayne/Marshall/Cooper/SBW/any BIG NAME player with a lot of hype says "I want $3 million a year because I know I bring more than that to my club and the NRL" we can say "If you're not happy with $1.5 million you can f**k off."

And we know they won't because the ARU/AFL/overseas rugby clubs can't give them any more than the NRL is already paying them.

What it comes down to though is how well these players play in these other codes. Folau and Hunt will definitely make money for the AFL and their clubs. The issue is whether they will hurt their clubs on the field through simple jealousy from much better players earning less. Or if they keep better performers out of the teams they're in. This could also be an issue for Cooper's club if he came to the NRL, though he's more likely to succeed at league than an NRL player taking up Australian rules football.