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Quade Cooper knocks back Parramatta Eels offer to switch to NRL and sticks with Union

HevyDevy

Coach
Messages
17,146
It will be interesting to see how the IRB responds to the demands of the southern hemisphere nations. I can genuinely see all three boycotting the next WC if the current financial model doesn't change.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,423
Pocock's greatest skill is his ability to turn over possession. He would be made to leave rugby because one of his greatest technical skills would be denied him.

I don't think Cooper made a heap of mistakes as such; it was more his option taking and decision making.

Normally those are of a very high, even unique standard. He had a poor game and is having a poor tournament. But he is the best rugby player in the world when on song, and a freakish playmaker.

It also looked like his teammates were on a completely different page.

Digby Ione is one who would be a great league player.


He certainly would.
 

Fathead

Bench
Messages
2,777
Nope.

Players like him (I'm talking about his profile more than his ability) bring money into their clubs - they more than pay for themselves - and them and their managers and the clubs all know it.

While you need some talent to generate hype in the first place, after a while the hype generates itself and that's where the money comes from, not from playing ability alone.

The people involved in pro sports in the U.S. have known about this for decades (probably because their target audiences were receptive to it long before the rest of the Western world) which is why they carry on like f**kwits. Because hype pays the bills; playing ability is secondary.

Note, when we hear the word 'hype' we think of negatives - superficiality and whatnot - but all 'hype' really means is public interest. Which equals money.

The problem for sports operating under a salary cap is that hype is something you have to pay for but it doesn't bring you results on the field.

So while Quade Cooper might ask for $800k (for argument's sake), and earn his club far more than that through increased exposure, he would still be keeping $800k worth of other players out of his club, when a guy on $400k or less would give the same results on the field. Likewise Sonny Bill Williams.

That's not to say that Quade Cooper at $800k wouldn't be a good aquisition for the NRL (or any club) from a purely financial point of view, but he would hurt whichever club he went to by taking up too much cap space.

This is part of why the NRL's pure salary cap model hurts them when compared to rugby union. But if we can get more money from TV then we can raise the salary cap to the point where players of Quade Cooper's ability can match their value on the field with their value off it.

What it comes down to is being able to pay more for players than the other codes. That way, when Hayne/Marshall/Cooper/SBW/any BIG NAME player with a lot of hype says "I want $3 million a year because I know I bring more than that to my club and the NRL" we can say "If you're not happy with $1.5 million you can f**k off."

And we know they won't because the ARU/AFL/overseas rugby clubs can't give them any more than the NRL is already paying them.

What it comes down to though is how well these players play in these other codes. Folau and Hunt will definitely make money for the AFL and their clubs. The issue is whether they will hurt their clubs on the field through simple jealousy from much better players earning less. Or if they keep better performers out of the teams they're in. This could also be an issue for Cooper's club if he came to the NRL, though he's more likely to succeed at league than an NRL player taking up Australian rules football.

That may be so and I agree that they are all good points but the fact of the matter is that the bloke just cannot play football at a consistant level. Especially if we are looking to invest a motza on him.
yes he will bring in the crowds but if he cannot compete then he will turn crowds away, especially if Parra lose good players to get /keep Quade.
 

Fathead

Bench
Messages
2,777
He is completely exposed in rugby.

He is a player who would benefit from the protection of the 10m rule.

If you have ever listened to commentators of the wallabies and I assume everyone has, then you would be astounded by the amount of dropped balls and rudimentary mistakes which is carefully explained away as mishaps and bad luck. The Wallabies are without doubt the highest paid bunch of underacheivers in Rugby/League.
If Quade made a quater of the mistakes that he makes at Rugby at the eels then he would be hunted out of the game.
Great league converts like Mick O'connor never made those sort of mistakes some of which would make a 12 year old blush.

Add to the fact that his tackling is completely non existant and he usually saves his worst games for high pressure contests.
I believe that the NRL is more consistant, laden with pressure moments and has less room than all but the closest trans tasman rugby games.
Sorry - I think he would be a mistake.
Much better value to throw our 800k to Foran or Benji Marshall.
 

Parra

Referee
Messages
24,900
Basic handling errors shit me in rugby union.

But my point was how much a player like Cooper would benefit from not having the defence on top of him every play. You only have to watch Reds matches this year when the forwards got a roll on and gave Cooper space he looked great. He'd get this space more consistently in league with the 10 metre rule and structured play. Often in union the 5/8 will get the ball under pressure. This is where Cooper is exposed, at least he is at the test level. Use his Reds performances for a better comparison. Test rugby is another level altogether. Similar to how some players are origin players, while others who go well at club level are not.
 

Fathead

Bench
Messages
2,777
Basic handling errors shit me in rugby union.

But my point was how much a player like Cooper would benefit from not having the defence on top of him every play. You only have to watch Reds matches this year when the forwards got a roll on and gave Cooper space he looked great. He'd get this space more consistently in league with the 10 metre rule and structured play. Often in union the 5/8 will get the ball under pressure. This is where Cooper is exposed, at least he is at the test level. Use his Reds performances for a better comparison. Test rugby is another level altogether. Similar to how some players are origin players, while others who go well at club level are not.

Yep.. I conceed Parra. You make some excellent points. He would look better in structured plays. I do however think there are more minuses than plusses in his game.
I may be proven wrong and very happy to be proven so.
We will wait and see but I remain very unconvinced.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,423
Hey, hey, guys. Why are we talking about Rugby Union? Surely there are better off-season topics. Like: how many dark-haired players have come to Parramatta, then left after a season, gone to another club and then come back and would have won a grand final but they were injured and couldn`t play on the day?
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
153,336
I think if you put Cooper in a structured team you take away his attacking flair.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,379
I think if you put Cooper in a structured team you take away his attacking flair.

I think this idea is a popular myth - about any instinctive player.

All it means is that a highly structured team should have very few of these guys. The player himself doesn't lose his flair, and his own game can benefit by knowing exactly where everyone else will be and what they're going to do.

Examples are Slater and Smith at Melbourne, and Thurston and Bowen at the Cowboys - all doing their own thing in highly structured teams.
 

Parra

Referee
Messages
24,900
Agreed.

The structure provides the space and opportunity for these creative players.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,211
Cooper is not perfect, but he's a damn good footballer. He has a great long passing game, a creative short and long kicking game and is a threat with the ball in his hands to tuck it under his arm and run. I, for one, would be gob-smacked if we signed the bloke.
 

HevyDevy

Coach
Messages
17,146
He is still young too and has a lot to learn. Not sure why people expect so much of him. Certainly he was woefully woeful against Sth Africa but he was superb in the Super 15 finals etc.
 

Bigfella

Coach
Messages
10,102
If you have ever listened to commentators of the wallabies and I assume everyone has, then you would be astounded by the amount of dropped balls and rudimentary mistakes which is carefully explained away as mishaps and bad luck. The Wallabies are without doubt the highest paid bunch of underacheivers in Rugby/League.
If Quade made a quater of the mistakes that he makes at Rugby at the eels then he would be hunted out of the game.
Great league converts like Mick O'connor never made those sort of mistakes some of which would make a 12 year old blush.

Add to the fact that his tackling is completely non existant and he usually saves his worst games for high pressure contests.
I believe that the NRL is more consistant, laden with pressure moments and has less room than all but the closest trans tasman rugby games.
Sorry - I think he would be a mistake.
Much better value to throw our 800k to Foran or Benji Marshall.

I reckon benji is the closest thing to quade in rugby league to be honest.

Benji has a huge amount of errors in his game. But like quade he makes teams win.

Look a the reds and the wallabies before he came on the scene and look at them now. The bloke can play and he can help sides win.

I agree I'd pay an established superstar the money first but I don't agree with all the critics of Cooper. Wallabies can win the world cup with him but wouldn't be a chance without him IMO. Doesn't mean they will win, but it's still a big rap on him.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
29,746
Wallabies can win the world cup with him but wouldn't be a chance without him IMO. Doesn't mean they will win, but it's still a big rap on him.
Disagree. We can win the final against France or Wales without him (thus winning the cup) but I'm not so confident of our chances of beating Kiwis without him in the team
 

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