Question for Noddy Haters?

[cheese]

wasn't it reversed last week with bird at 5/8???

Obviously with a new 5/8 kimmorley would have shuffled predominately back into first receiver. The same way he played with seymour. Except he didn't choke bird out of the game like he did with hoffman.

catching is a basic skill for NRL

if its deemed hard to catch......."see jarryd hayne" (to para phrase a fellow forum member)

I'm not defending his dropped balls.I reckon he needs a spell

Merely pointing out that he is often on the end of our set plays

Set moves that involve kimmorley, the dominant half, throwing the final pass.......or final kick

 

[The Dodger]

- v - dogs 64 gets
- v - roosters 66 gets
- v - cows 69 gets

hammo did his homework before his post

i stand corrected.
thanks info spider.

 

[spider]

Obviously with a new 5/8 kimmorley would have shuffled predominately back into first receiver. The same way he played with seymour. Except he didn't choke bird out of the game like he did with hoffman.

actually bird averaged about the same as dykes did in the 5/8 role........ 35 - 40 touches

I'm not defending his dropped balls.I reckon he needs a spell

i agree - what ever it takes to get the big unit some confidence

Set moves that involve kimmorley, the dominant half, throwing the final pass.......or final kick

well if ando got his sh*t together nod would be a lot higher on the TA table now...

 

[The Dodger]

I'd rather not, people do that for a living and they come up with those stats ...

Here's some more for this season :

In our 5 victories Kimmorley played in he touched the ball on average 55 times a game

In the 6 losses he played in he touched it on average 67 times in the game!!!!

Could the extra 12 touches be the difference between a narrow win and a narrow loss?

Quite possibly, considering (as cheese pointed out) that his touches come mainly late in the set when most sides attempt to orchestrate tries. Our team's style is to minimise ball movement early in the sets and cart it up the middle - not really involving Kimmorley too much.

I've come up with a few stats during my short tenure as a poster here, mainly to distract me from more important things that I should be doing, but I hope some of the people that love the Noddster and think he is a positive influence on our side's performance can take heed of some cold hard facts...

i understand these stats but it doesnt particulalry mean because he made more touches, thats why we had lost.

 

[spider]

i stand corrected.
thanks info spider.

ha ha

im sure hammo was well aware of that stat before he posted it so casually

 

[hammo1405]

i understand these stats but it doesnt particulalry mean because he made more touches, thats why we had lost.

Not directly, no ... BUT

I reckon its an especially damning stat considering that, in tight games, like the 4 we've had this year (cows chooks tiges titans), you EXPECT your halfback to get his hands on the footy and come up with a play that can either give the side momentum or win the game for the team.

Unfortunately, it seems as though when OUR halfback gets his hands on the ball more often the reverse happens - we lose momentum and don't come up with winning plays. I haven't heard any decent explanations from the Noddites for these disappointing statistics ...

 

[spider]

we lost those games as opposed to not winning them

there are 13 blokes out there defensively, yet your putting the onus on 1 player offensively

 

[cheese]

actually bird averaged about the same as dykes did in the 5/8 role........ 35 - 40 touches

I don't really see what touches has to do with it. Bird had a great running game, but kimmorley still took on the role of the decision making and polishing half.

The dykes bird combo also looked pretty decent against the warriors.

well if ando got his sh*t together nod would be a lot higher on the TA table now...

I agree.

But that's what i'm getting at.

That's the problem with the T.A. stat.

Whose to say that if they structured the same moves at training, but with a different assister they wouldn't come off?

Whose to say that if dykes/bird/kearney took the 5th tackle kicks that they wouldn't get a better strike rate than nod?

Our whole playing structure is geared around nod delivering the final kick and the final ball. It's only natural that he is going to dominate the assist stats, considering he is the man that is trained to take him.

That's why I find it rich for someone to say he is a much better player than dykes, because dykes only has 3.

 

[hammo1405]

we lost those games as opposed to not winning them

there are 13 blokes out there defensively, yet your putting the onus on 1 player offensively

The 13 blokes have been working their guts out for 70 minutes by this stage and our halfback puts more pressure on them through his lacklustre touches of the footy in the last ten minutes.

Did you see the kick from Thurston after the Cowboys set in the 79th minute? Perfect. Takes the pressure off his tired forwards. Our forwards have to contend with a fullback hitting the ball at speed and bending the line backwards.

You just don't see touches of that quality from Kimmorley. He can no longer get us over the line. he hasn't been able to since the start of the 2005 season.

 

[spider]

The 13 blokes have been working their guts out for 70 minutes by this stage and our halfback puts more pressure on them through his lacklustre touches of the footy in the last ten minutes.

so it was his fault for bird rushing tronc

his fault misi's fingers were not an inch or two longer

his fault smith cut out cov in the corner

so it was his fault for the pass to ground (kinga???) that let benji race down field under the posts

it was his fault the defence (bird) over read preston and left kearney isolated on the goal line and could not stop him from scoring

when will a lead big big enough???

when does the accountability fall on the side as a whole - as opposed to weighing down the one player upon failure to get the 2 pts?

 

[spider]

Bird had a great running game, but kimmorley still took on the role of the decision making and polishing half.

i thought birdy played the polished half more last week - delivering the final pass on the drilled moves

The dykes bird combo also looked pretty decent against the warriors.

yes it did

i believe bird (with noddy or dyksey) definately puts defence in 2 minds

he is a proven powerful runner who breaks the line - i have been against it all season, i dont mind him playing 5/8 at all now

That's the problem with the T.A. stat.

all stats are double edged

they can benefit your case one day - and tear you one the next

Whose to say that if they structured the same moves at training, but with a different assister they wouldn't come off?

thats a reason why i think bird goes well at 5/8 - 2 minds due to his power

 

[hammo1405]

so it was his fault for bird rushing tronc

his fault misi's fingers were not an inch or two longer

his fault smith cut out cov in the corner

so it was his fault for the pass to ground (kinga???) that let benji race down field under the posts

it was his fault the defence (bird) over read preston and left kearney isolated on the goal line and could not stop him from scoring

when will a lead big big enough???

when does the accountability fall on the side as a whole - as opposed to weighing down the one player upon failure to get the 2 pts?

No it wasn't Kimmorley's fault, you're missing the point.

There really wasn't much we could do about that Cowboys try. There were three 50/50 balls in that set that we didn't come up with. It would have been nice if Kimmorley didnt kick it straight to Bowen to start the set with Bowen charging back from the 20.

Mate, the Tigers game gave Kimmorley a droppy from 15 out directly in front. Half our side could have put that over. There's no doubt we should have won, even allowing for Kingston's pass. There's also no doubt we should have had 24 points on the Tigers by the time that pass was thrown.

Preston scored that try with 8 minutes left. We had more than enough time to patiently work our way into a quality attacking position and put on a winning play. I'll admit Reece Williams put one down off the scrum 40 out, so Kimmorley can be exonorated there.

Can you tell me where his 66 touches against the Roosters went?

The side as a whole does their jobs. We haven't been beaten in the forward battle so far this year except maybe the Souths game. Our backlien has been reasonaby solid if nothing too special. The fact of the matter is the two most important players on the field - Dykes and Kimmorley, are letting the team down in scoring points. Dykes is out of the picture so my frustrations are aimed at Kimmorely, who it seems we are stuck with for another 2 years.

 

[ragin]

I hope he doesn't defend anything like BK ... How many times has the merkin rushed out of teh line in the last 5 years and blatantly cost the side a try... I'll admit his defence has got better and hes stopped with his crazy swinging arm tackles, but he misses 28% of his tackles, whereas Orford misses 33%. So you're right, Kimmorley is a better defender - but not by much.


Thanks for the info mate. However, i'm not all for stats because they are misleading. Is dean Collis a better goal kicker than hazeem??? dean has 100% record this year better than Hazeem's say 90%

Anyway, if you want to go done that track you got these stats wrong as well.

2007 BK 220tackles for 45 misses thats an average of 18.5 a game with a 20%miss tackle rate.

2007 Orford 88 tackles for 23 misses an average of 14.6 a game with a 26%miss tackle rate.

AND orford has played half the games BK has this year .....

Lets just say BK chases his kick down field (which he does not get the credit for....his effort each week is amazing, something not picked up by stats!!!) and rushes up to put pressure on the fullback and lets say he misses but does enough to stifle the fullback and he gets tackled a metre away. He has a miss tackle but conceded a metre to the opposition. THATS why stats don't tell you anything.

 

[spider]

No it wasn't Kimmorley's fault, you're missing the point.

lol - that is becoming my fav line

There really wasn't much we could do about that Cowboys try. There were three 50/50 balls in that set that we didn't come up with. It would have been nice if Kimmorley didnt kick it straight to Bowen to start the set with Bowen charging back from the 20.

dont take too much credit from bowen - he makes yards to get to a kick very well

Mate, the Tigers game gave Kimmorley a droppy from 15 out directly in front. Half our side could have put that over.

yes - he should have slotted it, but unfortunately he missed

There's no doubt we should have won, even allowing for Kingston's pass.

take back the pass - no field goal needed - hindsight is great

Preston scored that try with 8 minutes left.

no he didnt - 74th minute try

then add the time out on top of the 90 seconds for the conversion that took forever and a day - does not leave much time at all, maybe another set for us

We had more than enough time to patiently work our way into a quality attacking position and put on a winning play. I'll admit Reece Williams put one down off the scrum 40 out, so Kimmorley can be exonorated there.

there you go - see above

Can you tell me where his 66 touches against the Roosters went?

he had 3 tackle breaks
1 line break
15 kicks for over 400 metres - yes i agree, he had an off night without much offensive support

but yes, his touches required more on the night, 2 tries was not enough against them - (obviously)

The fact of the matter is the two most important players on the field - Dykes and Kimmorley, are letting the team down in scoring points. Dykes is out of the picture so my frustrations are aimed at Kimmorely, who it seems we are stuck with for another 2 years.

we scored enough against the team coming 3rd - how many points is enough? Our defence let us down in the cows game - tye should never have got both those tries

 

[Bastard Squad]

I think we almost have consensus here.

 

[spider]

I think we almost have consensus here.

which bit?

 

[hammo1405]

I hope he doesn't defend anything like BK ... How many times has the merkin rushed out of teh line in the last 5 years and blatantly cost the side a try... I'll admit his defence has got better and hes stopped with his crazy swinging arm tackles, but he misses 28% of his tackles, whereas Orford misses 33%. So you're right, Kimmorley is a better defender - but not by much.


Thanks for the info mate. However, i'm not all for stats because they are misleading. Is dean Collis a better goal kicker than hazeem??? dean has 100% record this year better than Hazeem's say 90%

Anyway, if you want to go done that track you got these stats wrong as well.

2007 BK 220tackles for 45 misses thats an average of 18.5 a game with a 20%miss tackle rate.

2007 Orford 88 tackles for 23 misses an average of 14.6 a game with a 26%miss tackle rate.

AND orford has played half the games BK has this year .....

Lets just say BK chases his kick down field (which he does not get the credit for....his effort each week is amazing, something not picked up by stats!!!) and rushes up to put pressure on the fullback and lets say he misses but does enough to stifle the fullback and he gets tackled a metre away. He has a miss tackle but conceded a metre to the opposition. THATS why stats don't tell you anything.

I included ineffective tackles in my calculations before. Sorry, I should have pointed that out.

I have never questioned Kimmorley's effort on the park, the fact is the man is no longer a halfback capable of delivering a premiership. I've met him - he seemed like a nice enough bloke and he clearly has a passion and love for the sharks ... BUT this is not good enough for our team. Effort only gets you so far in the NRL, you need genuine skill to back it up. Kimmorley used to have this, but he hasn't been half the player he was since the intercept to Matty Bowen. Look at Bird and Gallen, they put in top efforts every week but they also come up with PERFORMANCE. Kimmorley puts in a top effort but it just doesn't cut it at NRL level anymore.

The stats are useful mate, if objectively viewed. Obviously you don't just take stats at face value and draw conclusions from them. You should make your observations from watching the game and then look at stats.

That's what I did. I observed that we play worse when Kimmorley has a greater influence on the game, and I found a statistic to support that observation.

When we lose, Kimmorley touches the ball on average 12 more times per game than when we win. Period.

The

 

[spider]

its easy to shut out any play maker when you centralise your temas focus at him

look what we did to thurston last week

hodges/lockyer - v broncs

i agree, when he is not targetted through high possession, our attack benefits

but that is why we have halves - and not just a half, to compliment each other

you only have to look how bird assisted in that department last week

 

[Dorsel]

It is a bit like the lead singers get all the accolades and chicks.
When truth is they usually don't write the songs or can even play a instrument.

Amen to that Carch I'm a drummer