Question on FIFA 2022 World Cup, $, & the NRL

[Goddo]

Hey guys, first post here. I have been following developments in our bid for the Merkin Cup with interest, as the federal government will spend BILLIONS developing grounds for the event, which could be a huge boost for the NRL if we play our cards right.

In Perth it is a s*** fight for $ between the crumbling AFL ground and Union/Soccer. So far they have proposed a stadium like ANZ (canned), redevelopment of Subiaco (possibly canned for up to 20 years :lol and a redevelopment but not for the world cup of MES. Adelaide is a similar situation, with SA Gov saying that they want to use Adelaide Oval, but FFA say they want a purpose built football stadium, and the AFL has been whinging that they want a new ground.

Soccer has pretty specific rules on rectangular stadiums, and I think you can only break them 1 or 2 times in a bid if it’s for historic/cultural reasons. They will probably use the MCG like this. That means new Stadiums need to be built in SA and WA. They want stadiums that are +45k but reducible to 31k, like Skilled Park. We need +12 stadiums in our bid, using 10.

That wanker Demetrioueoae (some bull s*** with lots of vowels) has been pressuring Federal and State governments to get Ovals built. MY QUESTION: With a lot of talk about expansion and rebranding of the NRL at the moment from 2013, is the NRL doing ANYTHING to try and get a piece of the action?

Eg, if we team up with WA Force and Perth Glory and say we may introduce a Perth team, it may help more money come our way rather than to AFL?

Eg, if we offer Sharks or another struggling club a relocation to a purpose built ground in Noosa/Redcliffe, would the Federal/QLD gov/FFA get behind it?

Eg, the 16 world cup teams need world class training facilities; can we get a few of ours, eg Belmore, Kogarah, Parra, upgraded?

It seems to me that we have an opportunity to really develop a strategic (20 year) direction for the game with this soccer bid (due in Mar 2010 I think), but time is running out. This sort of money being spent on stadiums won't come around again for a LONG while. Do you think Gallop is doing anything?
:sarcasm:

 

[BuffaloRules]

Pretty good sentiments, but the hardest thing is going to be winning the rights first to the World Cup.

China, USA, England & Spain will all get it before us I'm afraid...

 

[Goddo]

Not so sure about that... 2018 and 2022 at same time means if England gets it, Spain, and Belgium will be out. Korea and Japan won't get it. USA would make $$ for football, but I think they want to go somewhere in Asia, the yanks hosted it not long ago too. Indonesia doesn't stand a chance because of terrorism/sh*tness. I think our only real rivals are USA or China for 2022.

Anyway, it seems every footy code in Australia, and even cricket, has a plan and is going after the possible mula EXCEPT ours. That is what sh*ts me and this thread is about.

 

[hellteam]

I think we're no hope for 2018, but pretty good chance for 2022. And I agree with everything in the first post.

 

[Timbo]

I don't think we're much of a chance of getting either due to the seriously apathetic nature of our bid.

I've been following it very closely, and so far it appears the venues they're serious about nominating are:

Venues that are underlined also have an upgrade as part of the plan to use them. Where I've made a note after, see below.

Sydney:
1-ANZ Stadium
2-SFS

Melbourne:
1-MCG
2-Etihad Stadium
3-New Melbourne Rectangular Stadium

Brisbane:
1-Suncorp Stadium

Newcastle
1-Energy Australia Stadium(i)

Gold Coast
1-Carrara Stadium(ii)

Townsville
1-Dairy Farmers Stadium(iii)

Canberra
1-Canberra Stadium(iv)

Adelaide
1-Currently there's a fight between the Federal and State Government's on this one. (v)

Perth
1-See Adelaide above. (vi)

----------

OK, so as mentioned in the first post, there are a few conditions. Firstly, the rule is 40,000 capacity for a pool/round of 16 match, 60,000 for 'important' fixtures (opening game, third place play off, semi-finals) and 80,000+ for the final. Also they only allow one city to use two stadiums, so either the SFS or Etihad would miss out (Melbourne's new rectangular stadium although built for 31,500 capacity is expandable to 50,000).

There needs to be a certain preportion of seats set aside for media under cover (10,000 if memory serves).

Also, FIFA hate ovals. They allow for a few (historic reasons such as the MCG, or the occasional one where there's a modern venue).

As for my points above:

(i) As well as scoring it's new western grandstand, EAS would get completely boxed in at either end, turning it into a 40,000 seater stadium identical all around. Whether this would be permanent or not is yet to be revealed.

(ii) Carrara ahead of Skilled. Carrara is being turned into a 35,000 seat AFL stadium, which could be easily upgraded to hold 40,000. Skilled Park would be a sh*tstorm to upgrade, si Carrara is the preferred Gold Coast venue.

(iii) Dairy Farmers. I have no idea what they'd do to fix Dairy Farmers. Would cost a hell of a lot of coin though, would need much much more covered seating (regardless of what time they play the games) and probably the replacement of the old trotting track's grandstand with a new one.

(iv) Canberra Stadium. Floated recently, this would involve some or all aspects of the proposed 'ACT Sports Precinct' at Bruce, involving a highly upgraded Canberra Stadium or a new-build miniature Suncorp.

(v) Adelaide. This could be a big boost for the NRL in the future in the city of churches. Right now, Hindmarsh stadium is the home of rectangular field sports in Adelaide. Good facility, but with a capacity of 15,000 and no room to expand (blocked in on all sides by main roads and heritage listed buildings) it is not a long term option. The spuckwit Premier of SA, Rann, wants to upgrade the Adelaide Oval. Epic fail, it comes nowhere near the bid guidelines in so many places. A new plan has recently been floated whereby there would be a double-decker stadium built holding 45,000 for the cup which could be scaled back to about 30,000 post tournament. It would sort of resemble the Home Depot Centre in Los Angeles if anyone is familiar with it. Would be a great place to base a side in the NRL in the distant future.

(vi) Perth. Possibly the biggest clusterf**k of the lot, Perth originally proposed a stadium which seated 60,000 and had a proper retractable seating stadium. When I say proper, I mean all ends of the ground retracted, so it would own Etihad and ANZ for its multi-use functionality. Alas, the Labor government went down at the last election and the coaltion canned it the next day. Now they're proposing some sort of ghastly upgrade to the - putting it kindly - antique Subiaco. Unlikely to be included in the bid if this goes ahead. Good news for league fans though, is that the Force rugby club has gotten fed up with this arrangement, and an austere modernization of rectangular Members Equity Stadium (taking it to around 21,000 seats) is taking place over the off-season in time for Super 14 next year and would be an ideal NRL club venue.

So how does this help the NRL? In plenty of ways.

-Massive Upgrades to stadiums in Canberra, Newcastle and Townsville.
-New facility in Adelaide for future expansion and regular season fixtures for clubs like Cronulla who head there from time to time.
-Upgrades to Members Equity in Perth for future expansion, possible new stadium.

There are other secondary benifits as well.

-FIFA requires a certain number of warm-up venues to FIFA standard before the cup so teams can have a few friendly matches - these CAN NOT be cup venues. So places like Parramatta Stadium could see some money spent on upgrades.
-FIFA requires full control of venues for the duration of the cup, and for a month beforehand - noone else can use them. However, compensation is not out of the question. If, for example, the Bronco's had to shift some home games to Ballymore or the Gabba whilst FIFA has control of Suncorp, they could expect some serious $$$ to make up for it. Same goes for all clubs who would have to move for 8-10 weeks.

 

[hellteam]

I thought they built Skilled Park so it could be upgraded easily?

 

[herbert henry1908]

-FIFA requires full control of venues for the duration of the cup, and for a month beforehand - noone else can use them. However, compensation is not out of the question. If, for example, the Bronco's had to shift some home games to Ballymore or the Gabba whilst FIFA has control of Suncorp, they could expect some serious $$$ to make up for it. Same goes for all clubs who would have to move for 8-10 weeks.

I also think its likely that the federal government would want to see the the NRL and AFL possibly either suspend their competitions during the Cup or at least work the seasons around it.

In return for doing this I dont think It would be out of the question for the NRL to ask for a few incentives in return. If at all possible the NRL should be pushing for more upgrades to sydney suburban grounds as part of any deal.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Isnt there a rule that the stadiums have to be rectangular?

In the last World Cup in Germany, I thought that is why they build the Munich Allianz Arena, as their Olympic stadium built for 1972 games was round.

Wont that mean that the Carrara, MCG and Ethihad will be out??

Homebush can go into rectangle mode, even though you are still miles from the action....

 

[Goddo]

CARRARA FOR GOLD COAST.... WTF. Say MCG is locked in because of history and size, that means 1 other oval. Adelaide (oval), Perth (subiaco) and now GOLD COAST want to have that oval? 2 will miss out...
That stadium in Adelaide sounds like the goods, but to me it is the least likely place to use a rectangular stadium of the above three. But yeah, good news for the Sharks if they go belly up.

Last I heard SA cricket and AFL had teamed up and were going to both use Adelaide oval, but they started fighting. It would be awesome for a 30k stadium to be built in adelaide, on that university field just north of the river?

I also heard there was a lot of public backlash against the Canberra Stadium.
Newcastle are the real winners in the long term. But construction there is delayed because they are out of money and the club is getting screwed over royally at the moment. Still, should be sweet by 2022 and Newcastle will have one of the best grounds in the NRL.

I didn't know about the warm up venues... that could be great for us.

 

[Goddo]

Isnt there a rule that the stadiums have to be rectangular?

In the last World Cup in Germany, I thought that is why they build the Munich Allianz Arena, as their Olympic stadium built for 1972 games was round.

Wont that mean that the Carrara, MCG and Ethihad will be out??

Homebush can go into rectangle mode, even though you are still miles from the action....

They allow you to have 1 or 2 non rectangular ones if it is for cultural historic or capacity reasons. As such we will probably use the MCG. The Victorians wouldn't have it any other way.

They have rules on surface area of the field which our oval grounds all fail. I think the 1936 Olympic Stadium in Germany with a running track is as big as FIFA like, and the MCG/Subiaco/Adelaide Oval are bigger than this.

Ethihad is changable like Homebush so its okay, but as Timbo said, only 2 stadiums per city. Melbourne want 3.

 

[CC_Eagle]

That wanker Demetrioueoae (some bull s*** with lots of vowels)

:lol:

 

[BuffaloRules]

They allow you to have 1 or 2 non rectangular ones if it is for cultural historic or capacity reasons. As such we will probably use the MCG. The Victorians wouldn't have it any other way.

They have rules on surface area of the field which our oval grounds all fail. I think the 1936 Olympic Stadium in Germany with a running track is as big as FIFA like, and the MCG/Subiaco/Adelaide Oval are bigger than this.

Ethihad is changable like Homebush so its okay, but as Timbo said, only 2 stadiums per city. Melbourne want 3.

" 1 or 2"....

I would have thought the rule would be more specific then this...

 

[Goddo]

I can't remember if its 1 or 2. Regardless, they prefer massive rectangular stadiums. The more of them, the better your bid. Point being gold digging AFL numpties that want all the money for their stadiums can F*** the hell off.

I mean Carrara for Gold Coast! That is the biggest load of horse S*** I have ever heard. At least with Perth or Adelaide they follow AFL. I know Manly have their toe in the water on the Sunshine Coast for a potential move if Sydney doesn't work out, why not build a new stadium for either a relocated Sea Eagles, or a new NRL side (say "soccer team" to keep em happy).

I mean, Demetriuaeaioux(?) is pressuring them for adelaide and perth ovals, and gets Gold Coast! What a coup! Gallop meanwhile is sitting in Moore Park going, "err. Hmmm," wondering when Rupert will roger him next.

I understand, we will benefit from the bid, but are we doing anything to maximise our gain?

 

[fish eel]

Three stadiums in Germany were not rectangular.

The Olympic Stadium in Berlin which hosted the final.

The stadium in Stuttgart where Australia played Croatia.

And the stadium in Nurnberg also had a running track around the football field.

 

[BuffaloRules]

In that case we are farked...

Adelaide and Perth will just get round stadiums....

 

[Timbo]

Carrara is the choice for the Gold Coast because the upgrade is easier than skilled. Also the GC being a regional centre will only host group matches, not QFs and the like.

The word for Adelaide and Perth is essentially build a proper stadium or we won't include you in the bid.

 

[bobbis]

The Qld government really dropped the ball with Skilled Park. A great stadium but left it with no upgrade option. I can't see how Carrara would be a much cheaper option, it would have to be reconfigured to be rectangular and then after reconfigured to an oval again.

Suncorp could've been looking at a 70000 ish capacity upgrade for the WC unfortunately it too was built assuming an upgrade would never be necessary.

It looks doubtful Australia will succeed in this bid, its half assed to say the least. There's the various state governments who don't want to spend a cent, you have the AFL trying to get its stadiums built instead. It seems like the Australia bid will do the very bare minimum in every criteria and cut every corner it can. If you look at some of the competing bids England and the US, these 2 countries both already have dozens of large rectangular stadia. The US for instance could probably put up 20+ stadia of 80000+ capacity that are already built and ready to go. Realistically if we're going to compete we need to do more than meet the bare minimum standards.

 

[pedge]

we dont have to worry about enand or other europeans - england are going for 2018 and along with russia, 1 of them should get it, meaning 2022, the meain year we are after, is left for another contient
Three main countries i feel - us china and usa
fifa for a fact wants another world cup in asia...asia is the fastest growing region in terms of football, so that gives us half a hope, but up against china, we will not be able to compete in terms of money or stadia, in fact, i cant see how we could beat china...on the other hand, america has something that no other country in the world coule compete with - barrack obama - he is a massive football/soccer fan, both his daughters play football and he is a regular supporter at their local games...i do believe that if he does (and he will) gets behind their bid, they are a massive massive chance, anything he puts his name to atm turns to gold imo...
the smoky is qatar - they are in the asian/middle east region and the time zone is closer 2 europe, where all the money comes from in regards to tv etc....the only problem there is the climate, where it gets up towards or above 50 degrees in the month that the world cup needs to be held, however, qatar has promised to build all stadiums as indoor air conditioned stadiums, and believe me that money is no object to the qataris in regards to construction...that would still leave a problem in regards to climate for training facilities etc, and whether ppl would want to travel there at that time of the year because of the climate etc

 

[herbert henry1908]

we dont have to worry about enand or other europeans - england are going for 2018 and along with russia, 1 of them should get it, meaning 2022, the meain year we are after, is left for another contient
Three main countries i feel - us china and usa
fifa for a fact wants another world cup in asia...asia is the fastest growing region in terms of football, so that gives us half a hope, but up against china, we will not be able to compete in terms of money or stadia, in fact, i cant see how we could beat china...on the other hand, america has something that no other country in the world coule compete with - barrack obama - he is a massive football/soccer fan, both his daughters play football and he is a regular supporter at their local games...i do believe that if he does (and he will) gets behind their bid, they are a massive massive chance, anything he puts his name to atm turns to gold imo...
the smoky is qatar - they are in the asian/middle east region and the time zone is closer 2 europe, where all the money comes from in regards to tv etc....the only problem there is the climate, where it gets up towards or above 50 degrees in the month that the world cup needs to be held, however, qatar has promised to build all stadiums as indoor air conditioned stadiums, and believe me that money is no object to the qataris in regards to construction...that would still leave a problem in regards to climate for training facilities etc, and whether ppl would want to travel there at that time of the year because of the climate etc

You obviously dont follow US politics very closely. His health care plan is in big trouble and he's dropping very quickly in the polls.

The state of the US budget will prevent any huge commitment from the US government IMO. That is if huge money is needed at all given their quality and quantity of stadia.

 

[pedge]

id be surprised if they even needed 1 stadium considering all their nfl stadiums would prob be 60000+...pretty sure they have at least 2 indoor stadiums as well if that ever became requested