Raiders discussion on immigration.

[Raider Ultra]

Maybe it should be put in the title that this thread is for people whose age is in double figures ;-)

 

[Tokyo_Raider]

no, there is nothing inherently dividing about it, but in a country where that is not the norm, then yes, it does go some way (albeit an extremely minute way) to dividing the nation.

When in Australia, my family speaks Japanese at home. We eat a lot of Japanese food. We hang out a lot with our Japanese friends and colleagues. Despite this, I can't really see how we are dividing anything, let alone the whole damn nation.

Is our desire to associate with the Japanese community a bad thing? If someone can show me how this is causing a huge rift in our national fabric, I would be very impressed indeed!

 

[Panjabi]

no, there is nothing inherently dividing about it, but in a country where that is not the norm, then yes, it does go some way (albeit an extremely minute way) to dividing the nation

The ability for an individual to practice ones cultural and religious traditions should be accepted as the 'norm' in any country especially a democratic and openly tolerant society like Australia. How does it divide the nation if minority groups practice their beliefs, does that mean a Vegetarian who refuses to eat meat is dividing the nation?

 

[raiders_lover_18]

Multiculturalism makes Australia who it is. An example of this is fusion cooking where cultural practices are combining to make another identity. For all of those who have questioned Australia cultural identity the answer is simple. Our "identity" is one of many cultures and traditions and therefore is a multicultural nation. I, for one, is proud of this!

 

[Kris_man]

Is our desire to associate with the Japanese community a bad thing?

no, but it's a dividing thing. maybe i'm totally off the wall, but i would have thought that assoication with the Japanese community is more of a Japanese thing than an Australian thing. if you've got one guy who likes eating pork, and you've got his neighbour across the road who thinks that eating pork is immoral, then obviously the neighbour is going to think that his actions are immoral. if we've got Australians viewing other Australians as immoral, then tell me how this doesn't divide the nation! a line has to be drawn somewhere between what's to be tolerated and what's not to be tolerated. as Panjabi says:

The ability for an individual to practice ones cultural and religious traditions should be accepted as the 'norm' in any country

but what if these views conflict? am i allowed to possess the belief that homosexuality is immoral and disgusting? it doesn't seem that way. apparently i'm just meant to tolerate it, even though my faith is strongly against it. it is impossible to have a nation, or any group at all, that harbours all beliefs, because some of these beliefs will conflict.

 

[hrundi99]

KM, cultural diversity is not a divisive thing in general.

It's divisive when political correctness forces "traditional" Australian culture to be eradicated, such as the banning of nativity plays.

It's divisive when ethinicities "take over" suburbs, such as the Vietnamese in Cabramatta and the Lebanese in Punchbowl.

Ethnic communities are fine as long as they are abiding by the law and are not encouraging cultural isolation.

Also, you don't have to agree with all of people's differences, but you should accept their right to practice them, as long as they aren't illegal or morally/ethically questionable, such as female genital mutilation.

 

[Kris_man]

Also, you don't have to agree with all of people's differences, but you should accept their right to practice them, as long as they aren't illegal or morally/ethically questionable, such as female genital mutilation.

and there goes your argument out the window: who decides what is morally/ethically questionable?

my argument is that there is no-one who can provide the definitive, objective answer to that question, but everyone has their own subjective belief, whether they know it or not. group harmony is found when all people, or at least most people, in the group share similar beliefs regarding what is ethically right/wrong, ie, what actions should be encouraged and which ones whould be discouraged.

 

[skeepe]

I think it's impossible to say one is wrong and the other is right. IMO, even though it doesn't happen in practice, the best way is to just try to accept that others have different beliefs and ideals, even though they may be abhorrent to you.

As I see it, as long as it isn't against the law, then people should be allowed to do what they want. I know this is in essence what hrundi was saying, but as kris_man pointed out it's not limited to what's morally or ethically questionable, as every society lives by a different set of morals, and I'd believe every cultural group would be the same, eg. devout Muslim women wear head dresses all the time, and I daresay would consider it immoral to not wear it, yet Western women have no problem not wearing it.

 

[Kris_man]

As I see it, as long as it isn't against the law, then people should be allowed to do what they want.

i totally agree, but the same dilemma comes up: who decides what is legal and what's not? laws are completely arbitrary, and they by necessity reflect the culture of the country that created them: the only reason the law works is because there's a system in place to ensure that there is a large force of people (police and judges) to uphold it, and the majority of people don't rebel, because they agree that those laws are reasonable. legality can not be equated with morality in every case.

 

[hrundi99]

Also, you don't have to agree with all of people's differences, but you should accept their right to practice them, as long as they aren't illegal or morally/ethically questionable, such as female genital mutilation.

and there goes your argument out the window: who decides what is morally/ethically questionable?

my argument is that there is no-one who can provide the definitive, objective answer to that question, but everyone has their own subjective belief, whether they know it or not. group harmony is found when all people, or at least most people, in the group share similar beliefs regarding what is ethically right/wrong, ie, what actions should be encouraged and which ones whould be discouraged.

Market forces tend to determine what the society accepts.

If something is happening and there is enough community feedback and concern then laws CAN be changed and/or it can be frowned upon and avoided in the future.

People bitched about unreasonable litigation in NSW and new laws were brought in to reflect the concern.

 

[Kris_man]

If something is happening and there is enough community feedback and concern then laws CAN be changed and/or it can be frowned upon and avoided in the future.

exactly. so laws really just represent the views of the majority. and the fact that the majority holds a certain view is not reason enough to believe that it is morally right. therefore, that legality can not be equated with morality, that's the only point i was trying to make, and i only said it in response to skeepe's comment.

 

[Mr Angry]

Yes a persons DNA is what makes a person what they are today. /sarcasm
I really did think all the rednecks lived in QLD thanks for clearing that up Kris man.
Immigrants are the problem in our society.

 

[greeneyed]

Why would you say rednecks live in Qld? How about you stop being judgmental and lets tolerate differences. Your own comments reveal your own discriminatory beliefs.......

 

[Mr Angry]

Why would you say rednecks live in Qld?

Because I live in QLD and talk to QLDers' all the time.
They care not for immigrants

How about you stop being judgmental and lets tolerate differences

lol, no problemo, stop QLder's hating anything non white or in a broncos jersey and I'll stop judging them.

Your own comments reveal your own discriminatory beliefs.......

Yes that in fact all people are equal, despite what Johnny and other would tell you, and despite what you may hear in QLD.


Migrants are scum, or have you hear the call of Queenslander?

Pick the correct side to fight against, fargwit.

 

[reptar]

but what if these views conflict? am i allowed to possess the belief that homosexuality is immoral and disgusting? it doesn't seem that way. apparently i'm just meant to tolerate it, even though my faith is strongly against it. it is impossible to have a nation, or any group at all, that harbours all beliefs, because some of these beliefs will conflict.

Noone can stop you from having those views - but having them isn't going to stop people from being homosexual.

 

[greeneyed]

Why would you say rednecks live in Qld?

Because I live in QLD and talk to QLDers' all the time.
They care not for immigrants

How about you stop being judgmental and lets tolerate differences

lol, no problemo, stop QLder's hating anything non white or in a broncos jersey and I'll stop judging them.

Your own comments reveal your own discriminatory beliefs.......

Yes that in fact all people are equal, despite what Johnny and other would tell you, and despite what you may hear in QLD.


Migrants are scum, or have you hear the call of Queenslander?

Pick the correct side to fight against, fargwit.

Clearly you are a discriminatory and intolerant as the ones you are choosing to denounce.

 

[greeneyed]

I have sought to stay out of this debate to date, but the great strength of Australia is its capacity to accept a diversity of beliefs.

Just because people have certain faiths, religious or other beliefs doesn't make them right, nor more moral than other views.

Just because people think they are "Australian" doesn't mean that they are the arbiters of what Australian is or might be.

Tolerance, a fair go and equal rights for all are some core values that I think most of us would believe in, at least I hope we would.

 

[hrundi99]

If something is happening and there is enough community feedback and concern then laws CAN be changed and/or it can be frowned upon and avoided in the future.

exactly. so laws really just represent the views of the majority. and the fact that the majority holds a certain view is not reason enough to believe that it is morally right. therefore, that legality can not be equated with morality, that's the only point i was trying to make, and i only said it in response to skeepe's comment.

If the majority has certain ethics/morals, then they are essentially the ethics/morals of that society...

The majority of people accept that homosexuality exists whether they "Hate androtops!" or not.

:|

 

[greeneyed]

Can't we get back to how we all hate the Roosters and Wests Tigers fans? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Kris_man]

Mr Angry: call me a Redneck, call me whatever - don't you see how you're proving me right?? greeneyed is correct - you're guilty of exactly that which you're preaching against. you see, if everyone is entitled to their opinions, then i am entitled to my opinion that homosexuality is immoral (i'm NOT judging homosexuals themselves, merely that particular aspect of their person). but because i possess this belief, i am shunned for it, and labelled a "redneck". surely this is not the "tolerance of others beliefs" that you preach.