Raiders discussion on immigration.

[hrundi99]

He's got you there on a technicality.

 

[greeneyed]

It is actually more than a technicality... but maybe everyone could just chill and accept everyone's differences, no matter what. Unless, of course, they like Phil Gould... then than is an entirely different matter.... :lol:

 

[Tokyo_Raider]

maybe i'm totally off the wall, but i would have thought that assoication with the Japanese community is more of a Japanese thing than an Australian thing.

How?

I'm an Australian citizen, I pay my taxes in Australia, I maintain property in Australia, I bring in many tens of millions of dollars in export earnings annually for Australia, my family are Australians....

My wife, however, is not Australian and feels comfortable in the company of people from other countries. How is that divisive? Do you feel that somehow you've been rejected here?

The beauty of this country is that I can do whatever the hell I want and everyone else can go and get stuffed. All of these people demanding integration are attempting to withdraw the essential freedoms that make this such a wonderful country in the first place.

Besides, this 'just enough of me, waaaaay too many of the rest of you' argument does no one credit. If you dont want immigrants, show me the damage they cause. If not, accept that your argument is mere emotion and revel in the fact that you live in a country in which you can hold such opinions...no matter how insensible.

It's divisive when ethinicities "take over" suburbs, such as the Vietnamese in Cabramatta and the Lebanese in Punchbowl.

Why? What stops you living there? I used to live in Campsie, 'Korea Town'. Damn, I loved that place - great food, wonderful shops, lovely people....who gives a toss if a large percentage of the population were drawn from Korea? How is this divisive?

 

[Mr Angry]

Why would you say rednecks live in Qld?

Because I live in QLD and talk to QLDers' all the time.
They care not for immigrants

How about you stop being judgmental and lets tolerate differences

lol, no problemo, stop QLder's hating anything non white or in a broncos jersey and I'll stop judging them.

Your own comments reveal your own discriminatory beliefs.......

Yes that in fact all people are equal, despite what Johnny and other would tell you, and despite what you may hear in QLD.


Migrants are scum, or have you hear the call of Queenslander?

Pick the correct side to fight against, fargwit.

Clearly you are a discriminatory and intolerant as the ones you are choosing to denounce.

Really who do I discriminate against?

 

[hrundi99]

It's divisive when ethinicities "take over" suburbs, such as the Vietnamese in Cabramatta and the Lebanese in Punchbowl.

Why? What stops you living there? I used to live in Campsie, 'Korea Town'. Damn, I loved that place - great food, wonderful shops, lovely people....who gives a toss if a large percentage of the population were drawn from Korea? How is this divisive?

Because some of the more "isolated" cultures have a tendency to make outsiders feel unwelcome.

Having Korean friends I know that this wouldn't have happened in Campsie.

Are you of Asian appearance or Anglo-Saxon?

I think I'm being pretty reasonable in this discussion, whereas you're being overly idealistic. There ARE problems between different cultures in this country and no, they are not all started by "rednecks".

KM's opinions are at one end of the spectrum but yours are at the other.

 

[Tokyo_Raider]

I'm as white as snow, hrundi.

Perhaps I AM being overly idealistic. Let's put it this way, then. Perhaps certain suburbs of Sydney become less attractive you to as a result of ethnic demography.

Do you really care? Do you have a strong urge to spend time in Lakemba or whevever? If people are happy sharing an alternate culture in a confined area, then it seems to me that it does no harm. Personally, I am more uncomfortable among the BMW and mortgage set on the North Shore of Sydney than in Lakemba or Campsie or Ultimo.

Why is your sense of comfort worth more than the sense of comfort of those who choose to make their homes in these places? if you don't like an ethnically insular neighbourhood, then don't go there. Seems pretty simple to me.

 

[greeneyed]

Why would you say rednecks live in Qld?

Because I live in QLD and talk to QLDers' all the time.
They care not for immigrants

How about you stop being judgmental and lets tolerate differences

lol, no problemo, stop QLder's hating anything non white or in a broncos jersey and I'll stop judging them.

Your own comments reveal your own discriminatory beliefs.......

Yes that in fact all people are equal, despite what Johnny and other would tell you, and despite what you may hear in QLD.


Migrants are scum, or have you hear the call of Queenslander?

Pick the correct side to fight against, fargwit.

Clearly you are a discriminatory and intolerant as the ones you are choosing to denounce.

Really who do I discriminate against?

Queenslanders. And yet you seem completely oblivious that this is what your comments mean. :roll:

 

[Mr Angry]

Explain exactly how I discrimate against Qlders?

Main Entry: dis·crim·i·nate
Pronunciation: dis-'kri-m&-"nAt
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Forms: -nat·ed; -nat·ing
: to make a difference in treatment or favor on a basis other than individual merit; especially : to make a difference in treatment on a basis prohibited by law (as national origin, race, sex, religion, age, or disability)

Come on brainiac tell me how my observations of QLDers dislike for migrants is discrimatory.

Please explain exactly how I am intolerant against Qlders?

Not tolerant, especially:
Unwilling to tolerate differences in opinions, practices, or beliefs, especially religious beliefs.
Opposed to the inclusion or participation of those different from oneself, especially those of a different racial, ethnic, or social background.
Unable or unwilling to endure or support: intolerant of interruptions; a community intolerant of crime.

Now that fact that in live and work in QLD would tell anyone with an IQ higher than yours that I infact tolerate every attitude I come across in QLD, otherwise I would be intolerant and attempt to change laws etc or move elsewhere.

If your going to use big words it really helps if you actually know what they mean.

If you like you can by all means believe QLDers like immigrants and cannot wait for thier arrival on the shores of QLD, and I imagine this would work for you, being so dumb and all.

 

[Mr Angry]

Mr Angry: call me a Redneck, call me whatever - don't you see how you're proving me right?? greeneyed is correct - you're guilty of exactly that which you're preaching against. you see, if everyone is entitled to their opinions, then i am entitled to my opinion that homosexuality is immoral (i'm NOT judging homosexuals themselves, merely that particular aspect of their person). but because i possess this belief, i am shunned for it, and labelled a "redneck". surely this is not the "tolerance of others beliefs" that you preach.

Now Kris man, I see you need a dictionary also.

I am completely tolerant of thier attitude, I simply disagree with it and point it out, I do not hate them nor would I not hire them because they feel this way.

You can hate homos and immgrants that is fine with me, I just do not share the view.

I am totally prepared to tolerate this view, not everybody is me.

The day I seek to ban thier view or not hire people based on thier immigrations views is the day you call me what you are........until then buy a dictionary.

 

[jed]

Mr Angry, as is suggested by the name of this thread, this is a discussion between Raiders fans - I'm sure your dictionary entries would be appreciated back in 4C though, along with your views on other international issues.

 

[greeneyed]

Mate, your act of labelling a whole group of people with a derogatory term on the basis of one characteristic (the State they live in) without regard to the individuals, is the very basis of discrimination and intolerance. It is simple. Think about it. You are no better than the ones you are seeking to denounce.

 

[hrundi99]

I'm as white as snow, hrundi.

Perhaps I AM being overly idealistic. Let's put it this way, then. Perhaps certain suburbs of Sydney become less attractive you to as a result of ethnic demography.

Those areas aren't less attractive because of ethnic demography per se, they are less attractive because of the inherent isolated attitudes that abound within them.

Do you really care? Do you have a strong urge to spend time in Lakemba or whevever? If people are happy sharing an alternate culture in a confined area, then it seems to me that it does no harm. Personally, I am more uncomfortable among the BMW and mortgage set on the North Shore of Sydney than in Lakemba or Campsie or Ultimo.

Horses for courses, but have you ever felt as though your life was in danger in Mosman? There are areas within cities in every country which tend to be more dangerous than others, and where there is sociological unrest, and some of these are ethnically isolated suburbs (and alternatively some are poor suburbs, one is Redfern for example).

Why is your sense of comfort worth more than the sense of comfort of those who choose to make their homes in these places? if you don't like an ethnically insular neighbourhood, then don't go there. Seems pretty simple to me.

It's not. Everyone should be able to feel comfortable and more importantly, safe, in every suburb in Sydney. People feeling uncomfortable in Mosman because of rich wankers is preferable to feeling unsafe in Lakemba due to drive-bys.

Avoid the suburbs? What next, build a fence around it and not let "outsiders" in? You're not making sense, or you seem to be misunderstanding what I'm getting at.

 

[Kris_man]

I am completely tolerant of thier attitude, I simply disagree with it and point it out, I do not hate them nor would I not hire them because they feel this way.

You can hate homos and immgrants that is fine with me, I just do not share the view.

:lol: i'll get a dictionary when you get a pair of glasses - i never said i hate homos or immigrants, in fact i even added a disclaimer to what i said about homosexuality in order to avoid essentialist claims like the one you just made. one thing is clear to me though: there is not even agreement amongst multiculturalists as to just what it means to be multicultural: Tokyo says if you dislike someone's views, then don't interact with them. Mr Angry says if you dislike someone's views, then too bad - you just have to tolerate it.

you know what Mr Angry? i think this was a pretty reasonable, intellectual debate until you blew in and brought emotion into it, and started to make personal attacks (ie, "redneck"). this was a purely academic debate, each person proposing reasons to support their claims, until you chimed in and used the "redneck" line, which like i showed before is completely self-contradictory, which means you lose this debate, you're out. it's time to go... Mr Angry

 

[Kris_man]

Avoid the suburbs? What next, build a fence around it and not let "outsiders" in? You're not making sense, or you seem to be misunderstanding what I'm getting at.

yeah, Tokyo Raider, your solution to intolerance by dividing Sydney up seems to contradict your stance that multiple cultures and beliefs do not make for a divided city/nation.

there's two general points i'm making:

1) it is logically impossible for nation/city or whatever to harbour all beliefs.
2) culture is what brings a nation together. rituals, art, dance, etc are the process by which people bond and celebrate. take this away, and what is there left to form the glue of society? my answer is, that if you divide the society enough, society will of necessity cease to exist.

 

[Panjabi]

you know what Mr Angry? i think this was a pretty reasonable, intellectual debate until you blew in and brought emotion into it, and started to make personal attacks (ie, "redneck"). this was a purely academic debate, each person proposing reasons to support their claims, until you chimed in and used the "redneck" line, which like i showed before is completely self-contradictory, which means you lose this debate, you're out. it's time to go... Mr Angry

ditto.. couldn't of said it better myself

culture is what brings a nation together. rituals, art, dance, etc are the process by which people bond and celebrate. take this away, and what is there left to form the glue of society? my answer is, that if you divide the society enough, society will of necessity cease to exist

Please correct me if im wrong, but are you saying that, individuals who express thier cultural identity are resulting in a divisive society?

 

[Panjabi]

alternatively some are poor suburbs, one is Redfern for example

Just a slight technicallity on that, Redfern is not seen as a threat to individuals because it's a poor suburb (property values in Redfern are high), but the problem is the high crime rate, which is directly related to the Block. Get rid of the Block and you will solve the problem, but that's another topic for another day. Carry on..

 

[Kris_man]

Please correct me if im wrong, but are you saying that, individuals who express thier cultural identity are resulting in a divisive society?

does a bug flapping its wings over in Jupiter make any difference to us here on Earth? yes, but not a big enough difference to concern me. what i'm saying is that ideally, people would practice the same cultural rituals. when you "express your cultural identity", you're not expressing anything as an individual, you're expressing something as a member of a group. would it be called 'culture' if everyone practiced completely different rituals and artforms?

what i'm hoping for is that our multiculturalist culture will evolve into a single culture, the Australian culture, because i think that eventually, one culture will come to dominate Australia, by necessity. that culture could be based on Japanese culture or Indian culture or whatever, or it could be a mixture of different cultures, or it could be something completely unique (unlikely, if not impossible. more likely that it'll be a fusion of other cultures, with some unique characteristics). to partake in a Japanese tea ceremony in the middle of Sydney, there's nothing wrong or even divisive about that, but to suggest that it contributes to Australian culture - i don't agree. it celebrates Japanese culture, and that's all it does.

 

[hrundi99]

alternatively some are poor suburbs, one is Redfern for example

Just a slight technicallity on that, Redfern is not seen as a threat to individuals because it's a poor suburb (property values in Redfern are high), but the problem is the high crime rate, which is directly related to the Block. Get rid of the Block and you will solve the problem, but that's another topic for another day. Carry on..

Ok I didn't use the right words.

The block is being replaced by new high-density housing. Do you think the criminal and drug related aspects of the area are suddenly going to disappear?

 

[Panjabi]

The block is being replaced by new high-density housing. Do you think the criminal and drug related aspects of the area are suddenly going to disappear

Disappear out of sight? Probably not, but lets face it the Block is the hub of all the criminal and drug related activity. Take away the Block and resettle the inhabitants and you will find the problems will diminish, but then we will find the same issues rising in other parts of the city.

 

[thickos]

The block is being replaced by new high-density housing. Do you think the criminal and drug related aspects of the area are suddenly going to disappear

Disappear out of sight? Probably not, but lets face it the Block is the hub of all the criminal and drug related activity. Take away the Block and resettle the inhabitants and you will find the problems will diminish, but then we will find the same issues rising in other parts of the city.

Exactly. So where are they going to go?

If you want to think bigger picture then ideally the solution would be to get rid of the drug problem by making drugs inaccessible. This of course is a pipe dream and will never happen, so there will always be an issue of drugs, poverty and crime, all inter-related.

High density housing IMO is definitely not a deterrent for drug peddlers and crime and poverty - anyone who has seen Hurstville degrade over the past decade will know that housing complex after housing complex of 10+ storey buildings will (eventually) turn into slums that will lead to the same ol' vicious cycle once again.