Raiders return in November

[Raider_69]

A book isnt a book until it plays NRL, until then it is a cover. Remember Gafa...Ale? Who the hell are they now, not the god's you made them out to be, infact they were cut by the Canberra Raiders, who have a squad of in the "top 4" of quality.

Just because they didnt kick on, doesnt mean they didnt have talent. Gafa less so, by Ale is without a doubt the single biggest waste of talent i have ever laid my eyes on. You would know that too if you had ever seen him at his best. What is wrong with you quinn, is:

1. your a complete f**king idiot
and
2. you cant make a distinction between how good the squad is, and how talented the squad is.

Our squad as it stands is not that good because a large majority of them havnt had a chance to consolidate their careers and vastly inexperienced, they are yet to complete their journey from talented youngsters to NRL players, but the talent in this squad is without a doubt in the top 4 in the NRL... its not rocket science, yet it doesnt surprise me in the least to see Ed and his crew fail to get the point.

Again, you are wrong. Are you saying you have never NOT seen a movie on the advice and criticisms of people? Same goes with PL players, when people like you continually talk them up and tell us of their exploits in PL, which is a far less brutal and competitive competition than NRL, which doesnt stop you and others earmarking players, also drawing in and giving fans a false representation of their talents. Until they make NRL, they cant be judged as a player.

i have NEVER judged a movie based on critisims of other people, if someone who's opinion i respected said a movie is rubbish id be less likely to see it, however i myself would profess to have an opinion on the movie, as i havnt seen it and my opinion there for wouldnt be worth sh*te.

In the same breathe if someone's who's opinion i respect said a player was good/sh*t i would take it on board but i myself wouldnt express that as my own opinion until i had seen him for myself

Todd Carney is the nightmare of someone like you, you and your crew loved it when he initially hit FG and wasnt going great, not only did it apparently prove you right but you could stick to us who rated him, but as we (i speak collectively on behalf of those who had seen the bloke and knew what they were talking about instead of talking out their arse ala you) suspect, before too long he was proving his worth and will, as we said, be a future rep player.

My opinion is based on nothing more then what is presented to me, infront of my own eyes, countless hours spent watching them play... you form your opinion based on the fact that someone like me rates them, ergo they cant be any good, what do you base this on? What few minutes these kids might get in FG under a game plan ABSOLUTELY light years away from what they are used to in FG.

Now bare with me as i try to simplify this to your level.
What would happen to me if i walked into a nuclear power convention, and put out an open challange to debate anyone on how bad nuclear power is. I can tell you exactly what happen, id get made out to be the fool that i would be, as i dont know sh*te about nuclear power. Its the same thing you, ed and your crew do here... you come here and express opinions on something you cant possibly know anything about as many of you (not suggesting this is dubby) have admitted to have not seen much PL if any at all... so how can you have a justifible and relevent opinion on the matter?

the answer, you cant
stick to things you can justify your opinions on, such as the FG team, and the talents within THAT group.

 

[edabomb]

Just because they didnt kick on, doesnt mean they didnt have talent. Gafa less so, by Ale is without a doubt the single biggest waste of talent i have ever laid my eyes on. You would know that too if you had ever seen him at his best. What is wrong with you quinn, is:

1. your a complete f**king idiot
and
2. you cant make a distinction between how good the squad is, and how talented the squad is.

Our squad as it stands is not that good because a large majority of them havnt had a chance to consolidate their careers and vastly inexperienced, they are yet to complete their journey from talented youngsters to NRL players, but the talent in this squad is without a doubt in the top 4 in the NRL... its not rocket science, yet it doesnt surprise me in the least to see Ed and his crew fail to get the point.




i have NEVER judged a movie based on critisims of other people, if someone who's opinion i respected said a movie is rubbish id be less likely to see it, however i myself would profess to have an opinion on the movie, as i havnt seen it and my opinion there for wouldnt be worth sh*te.

In the same breathe if someone's who's opinion i respect said a player was good/sh*t i would take it on board but i myself wouldnt express that as my own opinion until i had seen him for myself

Todd Carney is the nightmare of someone like you, you and your crew loved it when he initially hit FG and wasnt going great, not only did it apparently prove you right but you could stick to us who rated him, but as we (i speak collectively on behalf of those who had seen the bloke and knew what they were talking about instead of talking out their arse ala you) suspect, before too long he was proving his worth and will, as we said, be a future rep player.

My opinion is based on nothing more then what is presented to me, infront of my own eyes, countless hours spent watching them play... you form your opinion based on the fact that someone like me rates them, ergo they cant be any good, what do you base this on? What few minutes these kids might get in FG under a game plan ABSOLUTELY light years away from what they are used to in FG.

Now bare with me as i try to simplify this to your level.
What would happen to me if i walked into a nuclear power convention, and put out an open challange to debate anyone on how bad nuclear power is. I can tell you exactly what happen, id get made out to be the fool that i would be, as i dont know sh*te about nuclear power. Its the same thing you, ed and your crew do here... you come here and express opinions on something you cant possibly know anything about as many of you (not suggesting this is dubby) have admitted to have not seen much PL if any at all... so how can you have a justifible and relevent opinion on the matter?

the answer, you cant
stick to things you can justify your opinions on, such as the FG team, and the talents within THAT group.

Frankly you have little idea on the gap between PL and FG. You see someone score a try in reggies and come on forums posting about how much better he is than those who aren't scoring tries in reserves. Gafa and Ale were both examples of this.

It is a huge stepup to FG, you might like to look at Carney as an example. It took him a season and a half to adjust and step his game up to the level.

It is fairly obvious someone with 38,864 posts at this forum and another 15k at another has little grasp on reality, so your insults are like water off a ducks back.

 

[Raider_69]

:lol: nice pic ed
i didnt think id see the day, but here it is, ed finally concedes defeat and reverts back to the ol post count chest nut... argue the facts ed.

There is a big difference between FG and PL, but how are we to know weather a player is able to make that step up when no one is giving them a chance? despite being in better form then those picked ahead of them im FG?

You yourself concede it took carney awhile to adjust, so how can you in the same breath claim ale as an example of someone who couldnt cut it? you know the bloke who got maybe 3 games, 2 of which were last hour call ups... how on earth is it fair that someone like you pass judgement on his ability as a player based on that?

You say i have little grasp on reality? That ed, is a perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black... as i said, stick to debating issues that you can justify your opinions.

 

[edabomb]

:lol: nice pic ed
i didnt think id see the day, but here it is, ed finally concedes defeat and reverts back to the ol post count chest nut... argue the facts ed.

There is a big difference between FG and PL, but how are we to know weather a player is able to make that step up when no one is giving them a chance? despite being in better form then those picked ahead of them im FG?

You yourself concede it took carney awhile to adjust, so how can you in the same breath claim ale as an example of someone who couldnt cut it? you know the bloke who got maybe 3 games, 2 of which were last hour call ups... how on earth is it fair that someone like you pass judgement on his ability as a player based on that?

You say i have little grasp on reality? That ed, is a perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black... as i said, stick to debating issues that you can justify your opinions.

The thing is you claimed Carney was the next huge thing in 2004, the same as Ale. You never say they're going to take time to adjust, you say they're better than the incumbents and should be there. This being the case the readers will expect them to be performing to a high standard immediately.

I'm not debating whether Ale coulda shoulda woulda had Elliott not been here, and he had been given an extended chance in firsts. Elliott always based his selections on work ethic, which apparently Ale lacked.

 

[Raider_69]

The thing is you claimed Carney was the next huge thing in 2004, the same as Ale. You never say they're going to take time to adjust, you say they're better than the incumbents and should be there. This being the case the readers will expect them to be performing to a high standard immediately.

what you assume from my posting is not the fault of me. I never expected anyone to come into FG and be a star straight way, i expected them to be picked as they were performing better then incumbents, Ale in particular should have 10-15 fg under his belt not 3 or what ever he has, who knows maybe he gets confidence from those extra games, maybe he knuckles down and takes off? who knows, but we'll never find out now thanks to Elliott selection table woes. Thankfully they are a thing of the past for this club.

I'm not debating whether Ale coulda shoulda woulda had Elliott not been here, and he had been given an extended chance in firsts. Elliott always based his selections on work ethic, which apparently Ale lacked.

How was he given an extended chance in FG?
He has played 4 games for us, from memory, 3 of those games he played were last minute call ups, meaning he had zero time to prepair, and one was from the bench. His debut game, he polled points in the POTY vote and busted more tackles then anyone else that game. Of those 4 games i believe we got beat 3 times if not 4... not to mention the only time we showed any attacking flair was the back end of this season, a season in which he didnt (and to be fair, based on his PL form rightly so) play a single game for us in FG... how on earth is he spose to make an impression with that set of circumstances?

I personally dont see the need to debate this any further, both Elliott and Ale are gone, so we each get a point. However i just cant fathom how someone like you can try and profess to having a great deal of knowledge on the talent and ability of players you've seen very little if anything of

 

[edabomb]

Don't think anyone does. They just don't believe the opinions of those that spout their expert opinions around here.

 

[sydraider]

I think we have some promising juniors coming through amd as 69 stated, top four in the league for up and comers. Apart from Dunemann, there are no more quick fixes to be seen, Its all there for the young blokes to stand up and be counted. Hopefully Henry will prove to be a great asset to the talent pool we have and transform them into quality NRl players. Wont happen overnight, but it will happen.
Agree with 69 about the 08/09 prediction of us really hitting our straps, there will be some heartache next year especially early on with the key positions of 1, 7 and 9 pretty much having new faces in them and time will be needed to let these guys make their mark.

BTW I think CHuck Norris is overrated

 

[Chachi]

Chachi,

Our talent pool isnt that great. To make the 8, no matter how, when teams like the Tigers and Cowboys (last years GFists),Penrith & the Roosters who all have Aust and other rep players while we dont, speaks volumes of the clubs achievements.

The fact we can win the close games should mean more, because it shows faith, courage and heart not to fold under pressure.

IMHO, the team struggled with the mental capacity to play well in games against lesser clubs like SOuths and NZ. That is going to change next year I would think with so many new players and a new coach.

Aha, this is exactly where our problem lies Dubby. Apparently we had a wonderful mental aptitude to win those golden point games, but that same wonderful mental aptitude helped us to lose games we should have won or choke miserably in the second half (especially Broncos and Cronulla away). Without being a "nego" you must admit we had our fair share of luck to get away with 4 out of 4 golden points.

I also have to somewhat disagree with your 'talent pool' comments. Yes, we don't have a list blistering with the legendary players of our past, but looking at a team like Melbourne at the beginning of the year you would have been sent to the looney bin if you suggested they'd win the minor premiership by 8 (geez, I tipped them to come about 11th). The Tigers were similar the year before.

The halves have always been crucial to a team - but even more so now with such an even comp. Will Cooper Cronk back up next year to the same level, or will he "do a Tim Smith"? (Personally I think he's more level headed than Timmy and will go OK.) How will they go without Hill? Will Marshall or Thurston get injured again? How will the Saints go without Barrett (probably better!). Which Shifty Sherwin will turn up to play? How will the Cowboys go with old man Smitty? (Personally I think they're on the downward spiral) Will Cronulla implode again with tensions between Stuart and Kimmorley? Will Vagana be the man for Souths? (heh heh heh...methinks not....)

This season was certainly a developmental one for our young guys - but I for one am looking forward to seeing our young playmakers in action next season...even the much maligned Withers. The fact that we've got Carney and Zilly selected in the junior Roos, plus a guys like Dobbo who's killed it in the UK tells me we're in good hands in the future...maybe not next year...but who knows....

 

[edabomb]

Just because they didnt kick on, doesnt mean they didnt have talent. Gafa less so, by Ale is without a doubt the single biggest waste of talent i have ever laid my eyes on. You would know that too if you had ever seen him at his best. What is wrong with you quinn, is:

1. your a complete f**king idiot
and
2. you cant make a distinction between how good the squad is, and how talented the squad is.

Our squad as it stands is not that good because a large majority of them havnt had a chance to consolidate their careers and vastly inexperienced, they are yet to complete their journey from talented youngsters to NRL players, but the talent in this squad is without a doubt in the top 4 in the NRL... its not rocket science, yet it doesnt surprise me in the least to see Ed and his crew fail to get the point.

I'm gonna go with some logic and decipher 69s rating of Canberra here.

First of all Quinny, Dubby, Tokyo etc.. and myself have been given the cold shoulder when it comes to critiquing the Raiders because 'we don't watch reggies'.

Yet here 69 is making a very broad sweeping statement. He is judging our talent pool as the fourth highest in the NRL.

I would like to ask Mr 69, how often does he watch other teams lower grades play?? If our good crew (lets call ourselves the novices) cannot critique the Raiders, I struggle to see how you can rate the talent pool of Melbourne, North Queensland, Brisbane and New Zealand. You do not watch these teams juniors play week after week!!! :shock:

It would also be good if you could clear up how often you watch other NRLs junior sides in action. I'd say Quinny sees 2 or 3 reggies games a year, so I am expecting far more than this given the way you scoff at his opinions.

Once again 'the novices' have probably missed out a blatant point which means you can judge NRL teams squads having not seen them play. I eagerly await, and will then return to try and be more like Mr 69.

Godonihgt (look, I'm already halfway to spelling like him!!!!).

 

[Chachi]

This is scarily becoming like the good `ol "who's the biggest fan" debate...one of my off season favourites. :lol:

 

[Bay56]

Ha, havent been posting here for a few weeks and just tripped over this one .... eeeee doggy, another one of those hot topic threads.

Well quite frankly I put it all down to one word "Elliott".

He's gone, we have a very good base of youngsters, most notably in the halves, and we have a coach that from all reports has the gumption to give youngsters a go .... ie picks his side on ability rather than age and reputation.

From what I have seen in 2006 we have some very talented youngsters. My biggest concern is that I havent seen an centre that really stirs my insides, although I think there are some at the club that could be re-invented and make an excellent outside back.

In Zillman we have a gem ... it is a f**king pity that Elliott didnt give this player opportunity to gain experience when the likes of J.Smith, Toots and Germ were still available to impart some wisdom when the going got tough.

Will these youngsters make a big impact on our fortunes in '07 ... I doubt it. And I would hope that the sceptics on this forum dont start laying blame on them if they dont immediately produce in the top grade ... that criticism should be directed at the departing coach.

I suspect that by '09 we'll start pissing in the long grass again.

I'll be giving the coach as much support as he deserves in his endeavours to give our young talent base the experience they have so far been denied.

 

[hrundi99]

Well quite frankly I put it all down to one word "Elliott"

:shock:

 

[Raider_69]

I'm gonna go with some logic and decipher 69s rating of Canberra here.

First of all Quinny, Dubby, Tokyo etc.. and myself have been given the cold shoulder when it comes to critiquing the Raiders because 'we don't watch reggies'.

Yet here 69 is making a very broad sweeping statement. He is judging our talent pool as the fourth highest in the NRL.

I would like to ask Mr 69, how often does he watch other teams lower grades play?? If our good crew (lets call ourselves the novices) cannot critique the Raiders, I struggle to see how you can rate the talent pool of Melbourne, North Queensland, Brisbane and New Zealand. You do not watch these teams juniors play week after week!!! :shock:

It would also be good if you could clear up how often you watch other NRLs junior sides in action. I'd say Quinny sees 2 or 3 reggies games a year, so I am expecting far more than this given the way you scoff at his opinions.

Once again 'the novices' have probably missed out a blatant point which means you can judge NRL teams squads having not seen them play. I eagerly await, and will then return to try and be more like Mr 69.

Godonihgt (look, I'm already halfway to spelling like him!!!!).

I watch most reggies games when im going to a raiders game, that not only allows me to look at the raiders juniors, but also other teams that are playing us. I would probably see about 20-25 reggies games a year. That a combination of Canberra's, Penrith's and occasionally the Sharks (what little games i go to of theirs)


The majority of my comments regarding young talent you will notice will be along the lines of "looking forward to seeing _______, ive herd good things about them", particular with regards to those teams you mentioned, i know of several young talents in each, but thats based on things ive read and not seen, and i acknowledge that

the only time i will say "I rate ______ ..." is when ive seen them with my own eyes and have been impressed by them.,

But that comment is far from a broad and sweeping statement, its an expression of my opinion of the exceptional talent we have in our junior ranks, and i am not alone with that opinion.

 

[Bay56]

:shock:

how come you're so surprised mate .... it is a well known fact that I'm not too keen on Elliott and consider him to be the cause of most of our problems ...

you're pretty slow if you havent picked up on that

my opinion on your intelligence has dropped a notch or two :lol:

 

[edabomb]

I watch most reggies games when im going to a raiders game, that not only allows me to look at the raiders juniors, but also other teams that are playing us. I would probably see about 20-25 reggies games a year. That a combination of Canberra's, Penrith's and occasionally the Sharks (what little games i go to of theirs)


The majority of my comments regarding young talent you will notice will be along the lines of "looking forward to seeing _______, ive herd good things about them", particular with regards to those teams you mentioned, i know of several young talents in each, but thats based on things ive read and not seen, and i acknowledge that

the only time i will say "I rate ______ ..." is when ive seen them with my own eyes and have been impressed by them.,

But that comment is far from a broad and sweeping statement, its an expression of my opinion of the exceptional talent we have in our junior ranks, and i am not alone with that opinion.

It is a comparative statement, and you don't have perfect information on many of the sides you're comparing. If you said 'we have awesome talent in the club' there would be no debating that statement.

 

[Raider_69]

It is a comparative statement, and you don't have perfect information on many of the sides you're comparing. If you said 'we have awesome talent in the club' there would be no debating that statement.

Its my opinion, based on what Ive seen, read and herd, the talent in our junior ranks is in the top 4 in the competition. You can debate that statement all you like, my opinion wont waver.

 

[edabomb]

Its my opinion, based on what Ive seen, read and herd, the talent in our junior ranks is in the top 4 in the competition. You can debate that statement all you like, my opinion wont waver.

Haha well in that case I don't see how you can criticise other members for having an opinion on what they haven't seen.

 

[Raider_69]

Haha well in that case I don't see how you can criticise other members for having an opinion on what they haven't seen.

My opinion is based on what i have seen, whilst i havnt seen EVERYTHING, ive seen enough to have a justifiable opinion on the matter, the "novices" as you labelled them, have not seen ANYTHING, let alone close to everything. Thats why i can criticise. I've seen enough to make a judgement, you've seen nothing pass judgement on. Vastly different

 

[edabomb]

My opinion is based on what i have seen, whilst i havnt seen EVERYTHING, ive seen enough to have a justifiable opinion on the matter, the "novices" as you labelled them, have not seen ANYTHING, let alone close to everything. Thats why i can criticise. I've seen enough to make a judgement, you've seen nothing pass judgement on. Vastly different

What have you seen of Melbourne, North Q's, Brisbanes and New Zealands juniors set up?? That's almost a third of the group you're analysing that you don't know jack about......

 

[Raider_69]

What have you seen of Melbourne, North Q's, Brisbanes and New Zealands juniors set up?? That's almost a third of the group you're analysing that you don't know jack about......

There is enough information around to have a reasonably (without seeing with your own eyes) fair understanding of the QLD cup and it's talents... which cover's 3 of those 4 you mentioned.