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Rd12: Parra v Souths GAME DAY THREAD @ Stadium Australia 29/5/21

Poupou Escobar

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68,152
Finally watched the game. Once again we were out coached. Very similar to the semi last season that I unfortunately had to watch live. By Arthur's own admission Blake and Ferguson hasn't worked despite the coaching brains trust trying to fix it all pre season and half of this season.

Now Opačić and Ferguson hasn't worked either. The common denominator? Ferguson. He needs to be shown the door because if he keeps persisting with the dope, the coach will be shown the same door.
Ferguson will be gone next year and the coach will still be here.
 

lucablight

Bench
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4,328
I'd dump him to reserve grade this year because he has more downside than upside.
Ferguson is 12th in post contact metres, 8th in running metres and still pretty decent at trampling over defenders close to the line. If he didn’t have the defensive lapses he’d be in origin contention. I don’t know if it’s a player thing or the way the team is being coached.
 

Avenger

Referee
Messages
27,566
Ferguson is 12th in post contact metres, 8th in running metres and still pretty decent at trampling over defenders close to the line. If he didn’t have the defensive lapses he’d be in origin contention. I don’t know if it’s a player thing or the way the team is being coached.
And his defensive reads would be the worst in the comp. He's up there with Shane Whereat.
 

Poupou Escobar

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68,152
You said our squad isn’t comparable to the best teams. Even if I grant your assertion that the “potential” origin players aren’t an acceptable form of evidence for the quality of our roster then we still have 5 “actual” players who have played origin at some stage. That makes your claim about our squad not being comparable to be demonstrably false.
Origin experience by squad (current players in bold):

Penrith (13 games, 6 current players)
8 Cleary
3 Capewell
2 Yeo
0 Luai
0 Martin
0 To'o


Melbourne (36 games, 6 current players)
10 Munster
9 Addo-Carr
9 Kaufusi

4 Finucane
3 Welch
1 Grant
1 Lee


Parramatta (18 games, 1 current player)
9 Ferguson
3 Gutherson
3 Paulo
2 Brown
1 Campbell-Gillard

Souths (52 games, 6 current players)
16 Gagai
9 Cook
7 Arrow
4 Mitchell
4 Murray

4 Walker
3 Mansour
3 Su'a
2 Reynolds

Easts (80 games, 2 current players)
16 Cordner
15 Morris (Brett)
15 Morris (Josh)
13 Tedesco
7 Crichton
7 Tupou
3 Collins
3 Friend
1 Keary

Manly (32 games, 3 current players)
13 Cherry-Evans
12 Trbojevic (Jake)
5 Trbojevic (Tom)

2 Walker

That's the top six. So you're right that the Panthers have no more Origin experience than us, but they eclipse our contribution for current players, and by the end of the series they will have more games experience than us too. We will be the lone top six team with f**k all Origin experience and f**k all current players. We've been inside the top six for 22 months, and we're doing it with a paucity of Origin-class players.
 

lucablight

Bench
Messages
4,328
Origin experience by squad (current players in bold):

Penrith (13 games, 6 current players)
8 Cleary
3 Capewell
2 Yeo
0 Luai
0 Martin
0 To'o


Melbourne (36 games, 6 current players)
10 Munster
9 Addo-Carr
9 Kaufusi

4 Finucane
3 Welch
1 Grant
1 Lee


Parramatta (18 games, 1 current player)
9 Ferguson
3 Gutherson
3 Paulo
2 Brown
1 Campbell-Gillard

Souths (52 games, 6 current players)
16 Gagai
9 Cook
7 Arrow
4 Mitchell
4 Murray

4 Walker
3 Mansour
3 Su'a
2 Reynolds

Easts (80 games, 2 current players)
16 Cordner
15 Morris (Brett)
15 Morris (Josh)
13 Tedesco
7 Crichton
7 Tupou
3 Collins
3 Friend
1 Keary

Manly (32 games, 3 current players)
13 Cherry-Evans
12 Trbojevic (Jake)
5 Trbojevic (Tom)

2 Walker

That's the top six. So you're right that the Panthers have no more Origin experience than us, but they eclipse our contribution for current players, and by the end of the series they will have more games experience than us too. We will be the lone top six team with f**k all Origin experience and f**k all current players. We've been inside the top six for 22 months, and we're doing it with a paucity of Origin-class players.
If the Eels were performing like the Panthers/Storm are then we’d have more origin players. The point of contention is whether our players are/aren’t good enough or whether they’re not getting selected because the team isn’t performing as well as the other aforementioned teams. I’d argue the latter. I don’t think we’re performing as well in attack and defence as we could be with the roster we have whereas teams like the Panthers and Storm are and then some with their rosters.
 

Poupou Escobar

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Messages
68,152
If the Eels were performing like the Panthers/Storm are then we’d have more origin players. The point of contention is whether our players are/aren’t good enough or whether they’re not getting selected because the team isn’t performing as well as the other aforementioned teams. I’d argue the latter.
Well we don't know this for sure, nor can we. All we know is that we are winning as many (or more) games than teams below us on the ladder but not having our players' ability recognised by Origin selectors. If we're only winning because of our great roster why are so few playing Origin this year? Why did so few play last year? Twelve of the blokes who played in Origin game 1 played fewer finals matches than our two.
 

lucablight

Bench
Messages
4,328
Well we don't know this for sure, nor can we. All we know is that we are winning as many (or more) games than teams below us on the ladder but not having our players' ability recognised by Origin selectors. If we're only winning because of our great roster why are so few playing Origin this year? Why did so few play last year? Twelve of the blokes who played in Origin game 1 played fewer finals matches than our two.
The players being chosen are playing in teams that are currently performing better than ours. Also the players being chosen were in teams who performed better than we did last season. Teams don’t perform well because they have origin players. Players make origin teams because they perform well.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
68,152
The players being chosen are playing in teams that are currently performing better than ours. Also the players being chosen were in teams who performed better than we did last season. Teams don’t perform well because they have origin players. Players make origin teams because they perform well.
Except many players are chosen from teams performing worse than ours. Twelve of the NSW players named today are from teams below us on the ladder. Seven of them are in teams outside the top four. Four of them made their Origin debuts before they'd ever played a finals match. Their teams' success can't have been a factor.
 

lucablight

Bench
Messages
4,328
Except many players are chosen from teams performing worse than ours. Twelve of the NSW players named today are from teams below us on the ladder. Seven of them are in teams outside the top four. Four of them made their Origin debuts before they'd ever played a finals match. Their teams' success can't have been a factor.
You can still be a standout player on a lower ranked team. You don’t think the Panthers having 5 players chosen was based on their teams success?
 

Poupou Escobar

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68,152
You can still be a standout player on a lower ranked team. You don’t think the Panthers having 5 players chosen was based on their teams success?
I'd expect a team that's lost only two games in over 18 months to have a few Origin class players. I don't think Ivan Cleary went there and suddenly became a better coach than Robinson or Bennett. His son is one of the best players in the game. But yes fringe Origin players (like Isaah Yeo) don't get picked unless their team is going well, but that describes our sole NSW rep, Paulo. How about players who get picked regardless of how the team is performing; merkins like Tedesco, Saifiti, both Trbojevics, Cleary, Wighton and Haas. We haven't had one of these since Hayne. Junior Paulo certainly isn't one. He didn't get picked until he was nearly 27, and only after his team won 30 games in two years.
 

Gary Gutful

Immortal
Messages
43,271
You said our squad isn’t comparable to the best teams. Even if I grant your assertion that the “potential” origin players aren’t an acceptable form of evidence for the quality of our roster then we still have 5 “actual” players who have played origin at some stage. That makes your claim about our squad not being comparable to be demonstrably false.
No it doesn't.

"Potential" and "past" are poor proxies for "current". I give you exhibit A, Blake Ferguson.

Also, even if I grant your assertion that "past" origin players are an acceptable form of evidence, it is logically inconsistent to compare the "actual" and "past" of one team with the "actual" of others.
 

hineyrulz

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125,594
His point was solid. You guys are the biggest bunch of flip-flopping, dribbling simpletons that I have ever encountered and I worked for 15 years as an aged care nurse.
Semen plop, I’ve always said Sterlo is a very average judge of a footballer. But there is no one better to disect a game and how to break down a defence. Which is what he did yesterday, and let’s face it our defence is pretty f**king easy to break down.


Time for a GIF????
 

hineyrulz

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125,594
So our squad is now shit???? That’s the new line we are running with??? We need more Origin players FMD Pou you sound like Ricky Stuart.


Ok so let’s sack the people responsible then!!!


MON and Arthur!! No excuses!!!!
 

Gary Gutful

Immortal
Messages
43,271
Semen plop, I’ve always said Sterlo is a very average judge of a footballer. But there is no one better to disect a game and how to break down a defence. Which is what he did yesterday, and let’s face it our defence is pretty f**king easy to break down.


Time for a GIF????
If they can't even perform basic tasks like work together properly in defence then maybe they aren't the most advanced of players. We need a coach to teach them what they should have learnt in under 12s, but no they are a squad that should win a premiership.
 

Gary Gutful

Immortal
Messages
43,271
So our squad is now shit???? That’s the new line we are running with??? We need more Origin players FMD Pou you sound like Ricky Stuart.


Ok so let’s sack the people responsible then!!!


MON and Arthur!! No excuses!!!!
Nope. Our squad is very capable, but it isn't as good as the best teams. Thats been consistently mentioned on here whenever anyone loses perspective. No-one is suggesting that our squad is shit, so calm the f**k down and finish your first bottle of Kraken.

In response to the 'sack BA' commentary, many people are sympathetic to that argument but its an argument that has repeatedly fallen over when merkins haven't identified an alternative.
 

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