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Reason for Golden Point Draw Breaker?

God-King Dean

Immortal
Messages
46,614
I absolutely despise it. It cheapens the entire game.

You get 80 minutes to win the game. If you can't do it, stiff sh*t, you had your chance.
 

Parra

Referee
Messages
24,900
It was the gamblers whinging after a draw


Nope. The majority of gambling is done on a points spread, and in Australia this usually includes half-a-point so a draw is never the result.

More to the point, most gamblers don't even care about the result - just whether the spread is covered or not.
 

Jimmy

Juniors
Messages
122
Returning to my original question, WHO was the driving force persuading the League to change the rule after 100 years ? It is obvious that the majority of fans were happy with the 80 minute game and the 2 points being shared.
 

sting

Bench
Messages
3,936
Because GP is there to gain a Winner/Loser result. Winners get 2 points, Losers get 0 points, thats it.

If the two teams were even after 80mins then they should both get 1 point and call it a day, but you cant have it both ways. You either go with a draw and split the points OR you have GP to decide a winner and they get the 2 points.

lol but why not? you're just saying you can't! would life be so bad if it was changed?
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
Golden point is a massive affliction on rugby league. A draw is a draw. It's simple. Does it leave you feeling empty? No, you've probably just watched a gripping contest and likely to have featured a thrilling comeback in the sequence of events. What's dull about that? How does that leave you feeling empty? Ultimate emptiness is going to the ground and watching some ponce drop kick a 47m missile after coming back from hell to get a deserved point. What if you get ripped in extra time by the referee? The referee could easily have penalised the Warriors for offside yesterday, but wasn't capable of doing it. Similarly, in 2007 in that epic 31-31 draw between the same sides, the Roosters were 4-5 metres off side for two rucks in a row when the Warriors were 30m out, looking for a field goal. Referee's clam up.

It's an artificial points distributor. I think it was 2006, the Warriors missed out on the finals due to the -4 (fair enough) and also we got done in 2-3 golden point games. I think it may have been Canberra who won like 3 that season, and that turned out to be the difference.

The worst example is a game where the Warriors went to golden point with an absolutely struggling South Sydney. Stacey Jones plonked one over from 45m out. I could have left that stadium happy to have clawed our way back to a draw. I didn't however like seeing little kids upset with the end result.

It's an absolute pile of garbage in every sense of the word. Yesterday as far as I'm concerned should go down as a draw.
 

Parra

Referee
Messages
24,900
Returning to my original question, WHO was the driving force persuading the League to change the rule after 100 years ? It is obvious that the majority of fans were happy with the 80 minute game and the 2 points being shared.

Seemed to come out of the annual CEO's conference.

It was used in origin, following drawn series in 1999 & 2002. It appears that what was good enough for origin, was deemed good enough for NRL rounds as well.

Check out the wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_point and also the media sites that are referenced.
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
Seemed to come out of the annual CEO's conference.

It was used in origin, following drawn series in 1999 & 2002. It appears that what was good enough for origin, was deemed good enough for NRL rounds as well.

Check out the wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_point and also the media sites that are referenced.

That's incorrect. Golden Point was introduced in regular season NRL games BEFORE it was approved to be used in Origin.
 

RL1908

Bench
Messages
2,717
"Golden point" was in place for semi-finals etc after extra-time pre-NRL i.e. under the ARL (possibly NSWRL).

But, as for the current rule in premiership & Origin, grab a biscuit & a coffee, and let's go...

Origin extra time unlikely despite drawExtra time is unlikely to be introduced to break State of Origin deadlocks despite the intensely-fought rugby league series ending in a draw for the second time in four years.
Illawarra Mercury 28/06/2002

RL: Golden point rule proposed by NRL
By Daniel Pace - SYDNEY, Oct 23 AAP -

The National Rugby League will consider adopting the golden point rule in marquee matches following chief executive David Gallop's study tour to the United States.

Gallop, who returned to Sydney today, visited National Football League clubs the Denver Broncos and the San Diego Chargers as well as NFL headquarters in New York.

It was at San Diego's away match against Oakland on Monday (AEST) when Gallop became interested in introducing the golden point rule for the NRL's representative matches and finals series.

The Chargers won the match 27-21 after scoring first in overtime.

RUGBY LEAGUE
RUGBY LEAGUE Golden point debated

THE National Rugby League will consider using the golden point rule in marquee matches after chief executive David Gallop's study tour to the United States.
Illawarra Mercury 24/10/2002

Thursday, November 21, 2002. Posted: 13:51:11 (AEDT)
ABC News Online
NRL vote for 'golden point' rule

National Rugby League stakeholders have agreed to push for the introduction of a sudden death "extra-time" to decide all premiership matches in 2003.

In the event of a draw, the winner would be decided on the "golden point" rule, where the first side to score a point of any note would be declared the victor.

The move came at a conference in Sydney involving club chairmen, chief executives, captains, coaches, the NRL board and the Players' Association.

"There is unanimous support for ensuring that fans and players walk away from every match with a result," NRL chief executive David Gallop said.

There were calls for extra time in Origin games earlier this year when the interstate series was awarded to titleholders Queensland when the third match ended in a draw.

Further consultation on the issue will occur before it can be made formal.

NRL goes into extra time
By Dean Ritchie
November 21, 2002

RUGBY League has changed forever with drawn matches now certain to be removed from the game.

The NRL annual conference voted unanimously to embrace the "golden point" rule for every premiership match in 2003 after the proposal was revealed in yesterday's Daily Telegraph.

Drawn matches will go into extra time with the first team to score any points being declared winners.

The new proposal – which still needs to be rubber stamped by the board but has the backing of NRL chief executive David Gallop – will ensure a result in every match.

Extra time will also be introduced in State-of-Origin matches.

Club representatives said they did not believe the proposal would adversely affect players, although interchange allowances may be considered.

"There is unanimous support for ensuring that fans and players walk away from every match with a result," NRL chief executive David Gallop said last night.

"There is an issue that will require discussion with a range of stakeholders, including broadcasters.

"In essence, the same rules we already adopt for the finals series could be used in all competition matches so that the first team to score in extra time wins the match."

Club chairmen, chief executives, captains, coaches, NRL board members and Players Association representatives attended the conference which continues today.

An issue attracting robust debate is the need to spread player talent across more clubs.

"It is safe to say that there was perhaps more support for the concept of a draft than may have been expected," Gallop said.

"The issue is one that still requires an enormous amount of work but we received some important direction from the game's key people today."

One unexpected proposal put up at yesterday's conference was for the conversion to either be removed from the game – and six points awarded for a try – or for all conversions to be taken from the same spot. But there was no official support for this proposal.

The Daily Telegraph

---

Golden point to eliminate draws
By*Brad Walter
November 21 2002

The National Rugby League is set to introduce a "golden point" rule to decide premiership matches next season, but Queensland officials may oppose the idea at State of Origin level.

Following unanimous backing for the concept at yesterday's NRL conference in Sydney, Australian Rugby League chairman Colin Love will make a similar recommendation for Origin matches to avoid a repeat of this year's drawn series.

Queensland Rugby League chairman John McDonald has no problem with draws and, while he admitted Maroons directors might be convinced of the merits of sudden-death extra time at next month's ARL board meeting, he said there were a lot of factors to consider.

"We've got an open mind on it but there are a lot of variables, like television and transport arrangements," McDonald said.

"In the Bledisloe Cup they play two games and they have to be the winners to get the trophy, there's draws in boxing and other sports ... even in cricket you can get a draw.

"I think you've got to be very, very careful, bearing in mind the conditions of the day when it may not be possible to kick a field goal.

"If you had to go another 20 or 30 minutes in atrocious conditions it could be very demanding on the players at the pace that they go at in State of Origin.

"It may be better to bring in the first-try rule, which used to apply in the old Amco Cup days and then if there were no tries, it was worked on penalties. We'll debate it as we have done in the past but I think that there's plenty to suggest that having a drawn game adds to the intrigue of it."

However, McDonald appears to have little support, with players, coaches and officials at the two-day NRL conference making it clear they believed a golden point should also be introduced in all matches, including Origins.

"I think that this got on the agenda by virtue of the debate and discussion about the State of Origin," St George Illawarra chief executive Peter Doust said.

"It's not a fait accompli, because there are other stake-holders that need to be consulted, namely the broadcasters, but having had three draws this year, I think I can speak with some authority about how disappointing it is.

"Our captain [Trent Barrett], our coach [Nathan Brown] and myself were all keen to say let's get a result, and I think that people go to sporting contests expecting that."

NRL chairman John Chalk, who is appointed by the ARL, said he hoped the format adopted from American football, in which the first team to score in extra time wins, would be introduced for Origin fixtures.

"I think that the players all want that, so we've got to respect their wishes," Chalk said.

"Especially at State of Origin level, I think that they all felt a bit empty about it this year."

The Sydney Morning Herald.


NRL must think again
Comment by Ian Heads
November 27, 2002

RUGBY LEAGUE's rush to embrace the artificial golden point method of settling drawn premiership matches from season 2003 should be revisited in a cooler light.

Knee-jerking enthusiastically to the chance event of a couple of drawn State of Origin series, the NRL conference last Wednesday stampeded to back the golden point idea.

Media muscle, a driving force in today's game, may well force the league to take a deep breath and re-think - and quickly.

It's hard to imagine the Nine Network, wrestling with tight programming schedules, would be doing handstands over the possibility of games heading into extra-time.

A mere mention of the Super League Tri-Series final of 1998 could be enough to do the trick. That torrid battle between NSW and Queensland took 103min 47sec to settle after the teams were 22-all after 80 minutes - with Noel Goldthorpe's field goal ultimately closing the curtain.

Even taking out the TV factor, dumping the draw as a legitimate result in a rugby league match is a highly questionable path.

A football draw is not the equivalent of a cricket draw; it is the equivalent of a tie in cricket.

In several games through the 36 years I wrote regularly about rugby league, a drawn outcome, bringing one premiership point, hard-earned, was rated an extremely honourable and legitimate result.

Sometimes the situation was one of true grit, of teams short-handed by injury, hanging on for a gutsy draw.

It only started to be unfashionable when an American cliche -- "tying is like kissing your sister" -- began appearing in print here.

Some of the most famous games in league's history have been draws. The first Test between Australia and England was a draw, 22-all, in 1908.

The great old-time halfback Joe "Chimpy" Busch dined out for 60 years on the famous story of the drawn (0-0) Australia-England Test match at Swinton in 1930.

I recall the buzz of being at the first, and only, scoreless draw in premiership history between Newtown and Canterbury in 1982.

The grand final draws of 1977 and 1978 are part of folklore.

There is, of course, an irresistible case in favour of extra time and ultimately the golden point device for finals that have to be settled on the day because every season has a finite finishing point. (Significantly, the most famous football event on the globe, soccer's World Cup, only uses the golden goal in the finals -- not in the pool rounds.)

Despite the clamour that was whipped up, it is hard to see anything wrong with a State of Origin series, ending level such as this year's did. As challenger, NSW always had to win the series to take the trophy from the holders, just as has been the case for more than a century in cricket's Ashes. The Blues weren't quite up to managing that -- and almost immediately the smoke screen went up, the cry for extra time, the golden point, etcetera because the fans felt empty.

Now, comes a move towards contrivance and artificiality - towards the tricked up results the golden point will guarantee.

Under such a system, matches will be won or lost on a referee's whim or the jag of a field goal.

On such days - for sure - one set of fans will go home feeling empty.

In a game that already has evolved to artificial scrums and artificial play-the-balls, the plea (and on behalf of some others, I'd imagine) to the NRL is: think again.

The Australian

RL: Gilly says golden point will produce negative football By Daniel Pace - SYDNEY, May 7 AAP -

Former Queensland captain Trevor Gillmeister tonight said the "golden point" rule to be adopted for this year's State of Origin series would encourage negative football.

"I don't agree with it," said Gillmeister shortly after the rule was passed at a three-hour Australian Rugby League board meeting in Canberra today, despite vehement opposition from the Queensland camp.

"If they want to be fair dinkum and get an outright winner, they should've gone with the try only (for first scoring play in extra time)."

Maroons won't be working overtime
Queensland will risk losing the first state of Origin rather than deliberately send tonight's game into overtime, coach Wayne Bennett said last night. The most vocal opponent of the new golden point rule, Bennett said he would instruct his players not to attempt to level the scores if tonight's Suncorp Stadium match is close in the final minutes of regulation time.
Sydney Morning Herald 11/06/2003
 

Parra

Referee
Messages
24,900
That's incorrect. Golden Point was introduced in regular season NRL games BEFORE it was approved to be used in Origin.

Yeah - my dodgy reading & memory. Seems it was adopted by the NRL, and then by the ARL.

Article says it was used in the Super League tri-series. I don't know if the rule was required then - but that was 1997.
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
Yeah - my dodgy reading & memory. Seems it was adopted by the NRL, and then by the ARL.

Article says it was used in the Super League tri-series. I don't know if the rule was required then - but that was 1997.

Yeah it was a bit controversial at the time because there was all the hype about Origin needing it so we'd have an outcome (due to a couple of drawn/ retained series in 3 years), but the following year the NRL adopted it for regular weekly clashes, but the ARL refused to make a decision until later. Thankfully common sense took because if weekly NRL matches went into golden point and best of 3 origin matches didn't it would be completely ridiculious.
 

Jimmy

Juniors
Messages
122
I thank you for all this information re the origin of the Golden Point. I agree with Ian Heads that there should be a rethink because a big majority of fans would vote to dump the rule.
 

Hass

Juniors
Messages
450
Golden Point as we know it was NOT used in the Super League Tri-Series final of 1997.

That was played under the old rule of 10 minutes each way.

The teams only went to "sudden death" (as it was known then) after they had played 100 minutes of football for no result.

Not only do I hate golden point (or any extra time) in the regular season, I hate the fact that all finals matches are now golden point instead of 10 minutes each way.

I feel somewhat empty (to use a phrase) when my team wins in golden point - it just doesn't seem right.
 

Jimmy

Juniors
Messages
122
Golden Point as we know it was NOT used in the Super League Tri-Series final of 1997.

That was played under the old rule of 10 minutes each way.

The teams only went to "sudden death" (as it was known then) after they had played 100 minutes of football for no result.

Not only do I hate golden point (or any extra time) in the regular season, I hate the fact that all finals matches are now golden point instead of 10 minutes each way.

I feel somewhat empty (to use a phrase) when my team wins in golden point - it just doesn't seem right.

Hass, I'm sure, if there was a poll, 90% would agree with you on all counts
 

RL1908

Bench
Messages
2,717
Golden Point as we know it was NOT used in the Super League Tri-Series final of 1997.

That was played under the old rule of 10 minutes each way.

The teams only went to "sudden death" (as it was known then) after they had played 100 minutes of football for no result.

That's all correct, but I don't think anyone was suggesting that the 1997 SL Origin rule (10 minutes each way, then sudden death) was an earlier use of the NRL golden point rule.

They're just citing that 1997 game as an example of the use of the concept of a game going beyond the allotted time (whether 80 or 100) and it being finished upon the scoring of a point(s), rather than a siren/time.

The NSWRL/ARL had that rule prior to 1997, but I'm fairly certain there was never an instance in a first grade semi-final or final of it being needed i.e. all games that went into extra-time (under that rule) never ended in a draw at 100 minutes.
 

Norths Tiger

Juniors
Messages
84
To those who suggest Golden Try (where only tries can be scored in extra time), I wholeheartedly agree.

But a far better solution would be Golden Try where field goals, penalty goals AND tries can be scored BUT the first to score a TRY wins the game. If there is no try inside the 10 minutes, then highest score wins or it is a draw.

So field and penalty goals count, but don't end the contest, but the first try does.

That said...if it was up to me, there would be no extra time (except for finals and origin games).
 

Hass

Juniors
Messages
450
That's all correct, but I don't think anyone was suggesting that the 1997 SL Origin rule (10 minutes each way, then sudden death) was an earlier use of the NRL golden point rule.

They're just citing that 1997 game as an example of the use of the concept of a game going beyond the allotted time (whether 80 or 100) and it being finished upon the scoring of a point(s), rather than a siren/time.

The NSWRL/ARL had that rule prior to 1997, but I'm fairly certain there was never an instance in a first grade semi-final or final of it being needed i.e. all games that went into extra-time (under that rule) never ended in a draw at 100 minutes.

Yes, but I think it's important the distinction is made clear. Fans of golden point often cite this match (the 97 Tri-Series final) as an example of sudden death extra time being a great experience. But that sudden death period only worked because teams had already been given an extra 20 minutes to fight it out. It was similar to the British Open, which has a four-hole playoff followed by sudden death if still tied. It's much more satisfying than going directly to sudden death.

Interestingly, while the NSWRL/ARL had this rule in place (10 minutes each way, then sudden death) for normal finals matches, I think they still had provisions for a Grand Final replay (if scores were still locked after extra time) right up until 1997.

I assume any possibility of a Grand Final replay died with the creation of the NRL in 1998?
 
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