Reclaiming 'Rugby'

[joshreading]

'League Rugby?' - not a chance and how is that implied in actually fact Pepsi dropped the cola bit as did Coke in a practical sense.

In marketing and promotion you need to be a 'purple cow' - you need to stand out in some way not be intentionally merged into the image of a competitor.

Anyone who actually thinks Rugby league can win a war for the name of 'Rugby' is irrational. RL people don't like this but Union does have a better right to the word 'Rugby' (the 22 clubs DID split from the central ruling governing body) and certainly does have the market for calling it Rugby. Aside from Northern England and maybe PNG name a place in the WORLD where 'Rugby' conjures us the thirteen man code in peoples minds in general?

Ohhh... Leadership generally implies fighting for the future, becoming an innovator, motivating people through vision but all those things are contrary to clinging to the past. Past names, past memories, past victories - that is exactly what fighting for the name 'Rugby' is, fighting for the past, fighting fr something that will not gain us anything notable. Fair enough use the 'Rugby' in the name when it suits us but in cases like Australia it is time to leave it behind.

 

[screeny]

'League Rugby?' - not a chance and how is that implied in actually fact Pepsi dropped the cola bit as did Coke in a practical sense.

In marketing and promotion you need to be a 'purple cow' - you need to stand out in some way not be intentionally merged into the image of a competitor.

Anyone who actually thinks Rugby league can win a war for the name of 'Rugby' is irrational. RL people don't like this but Union does have a better right to the word 'Rugby' (the 22 clubs DID split from the central ruling governing body) and certainly does have the market for calling it Rugby. Aside from Northern England and maybe PNG name a place in the WORLD where 'Rugby' conjures us the thirteen man code in peoples minds in general?

Ohhh... Leadership generally implies fighting for the future, becoming an innovator, motivating people through vision but all those things are contrary to clinging to the past. Past names, past memories, past victories - that is exactly what fighting for the name 'Rugby' is, fighting for the past, fighting fr something that will not gain us anything notable. Fair enough use the 'Rugby' in the name when it suits us but in cases like Australia it is time to leave it behind.

Ah, I see what you mean. I wasn't actually aware that Pepsi Cola and Coca Cola have rebranded themselves as Pepsi and Coke, but if they have I see your point.

I disagree with you about not fighting for the name rugby. That's like telling the pioneers of 1895 that there was no point in them going there own way. Hell, they were on their own in the world for over 10 years before the movement began in the Antipodes.

The word rugby is part of our heritage and we have a culture of fighting against the man.....

 

[Kingbunny]

I have to disagree with this.

As I have stated in an earlier post there is no such sport that is called "Rugby". They are now and should be known as Rugby League and Rugby Union. The later is as noted is governed by the IRB and is stated on their website.

Also, why should the dominant sport of Rugby League in Australia change its name because of the minor sport of Union ? This is just not logical and is stupid. Rugby League is Rugby League and Rugby Union is Rugby Union. I don't give a sh*t what these union journalists and their sheep followers say. They are wrong in the naming of that sport and need to realise that they are. No brainwashing me, you may have suffered but that's your issue.

Also, just because that class doesn't like the word "Union" as if usually refers to another classes organisation, doesn't mean the rest of us should have to suffer. They don't like the word Union, perhaps they should have been smarter and grabbed the name league before TGG did.

 

[Woods99]

I have to disagree with this.

As I have stated in an earlier post there is no such sport that is called "Rugby". They are now and should be known as Rugby League and Rugby Union. The later is as noted is governed by the IRB and is stated on their website.

Also, why should the dominant sport of Rugby League in Australia change its name because of the minor sport of Union ? This is just not logical and is stupid. Rugby League is Rugby League and Rugby Union is Rugby Union. I don't give a sh*t what these union journalists and their sheep followers say. They are wrong in the naming of that sport and need to realise that they are. No brainwashing me, you may have suffered but that's your issue.

Also, just because that class doesn't like the word "Union" as if usually refers to another classes organisation, doesn't mean the rest of us should have to suffer. They don't like the word Union, perhaps they should have been smarter and grabbed the name league before TGG did.

Errrr. And what about the rest of the world? They seem to have grabbed the name "rugby" to mean, well, rugby.

If you want to have an international game, try to find an international name. Rugby seems to have been taken, well and truly.

 

[Kingbunny]

Errrr. And what about the rest of the world? They seem to have grabbed the name "rugby" to mean, well, rugby.

If you want to have an international game, try to find an international name. Rugby seems to have been taken, well and truly.

What's Rugby ? Rugby League or Rugby Union ? Very vague and confusing statement you've made.

As for the rest of the world. I'm sure that the terms Rugby is used for both codes. As far as I'm aware no one code has grabbed the name as an exclusive right. However, I do believe that in France, Rugby a XIII won a court case so they have the right to use the term Rugby. You know all about this so I don't need to remind you.

International game? Both codes are international. In fact, in all the major union playing countries, all 5 of them, Rugby League is played at some level in them as well and growing.

You can stop trolling now and puntoff about to planetpuntmonkey.[-X

 

[Paley]

RL people don't like this but Union does have a better right to the word 'Rugby' (the 22 clubs DID split from the central ruling governing body)

They split from the RFU, not the game.

 

[Woods99]

They split from the RFU, not the game.

Paley old bean, you have the thought processes of a medieval theologian.


The game is, was, and ever will be "rugby".

All of your huffing and puffing doesn't matter at all. We are living at the end of history, as Francis f**kuyama might put it. Rugby means rugby. Game, set, and match. Thank you linesmen, thank you ballboys. Or ballpeople.

 

[Woods99]

What's Rugby ? Rugby League or Rugby Union ? Very vague and confusing statement you've made.

As for the rest of the world. I'm sure that the terms Rugby is used for both codes. As far as I'm aware no one code has grabbed the name as an exclusive right. However, I do believe that in France, Rugby a XIII won a court case so they have the right to use the term Rugby. You know all about this so I don't need to remind you.

International game? Both codes are international. In fact, in all the major union playing countries, all 5 of them, Rugby League is played at some level in them as well and growing.

You can stop trolling now and puntoff about to planetpuntmonkey.[-X

Is the word "punt" an insult?

What is it that happens after five tackles in rugby league? Regular as clock-work. A punt. Or is it called by another name?:lol:

 

[Paley]

Paley old bean, you have the thought processes of a medieval theologian.


The game is, was, and ever will be "rugby".

All of your huffing and puffing doesn't matter at all. We are living at the end of history, as Francis f**kuyama might put it. Rugby means rugby. Game, set, and match. Thank you linesmen, thank you ballboys. Or ballpeople.

Indeed, so its rugby and union then. Glad that's settled.

 

[taipan]

Is the word "punt" an insult?

What is it that happens after five tackles in rugby league? Regular as clock-work. A punt. Or is it called by another name?:lol:

No punt ,is a term specifically to apply to a game,where running with a ball in hand is considered unnatural,and repetitive kicking is the considered alternative.Some fella by the name of Garry Owen had his finger in the pie.
Punt can also be described as a flat ,slow moving river car carrier,not dissimilar to a 8 man scrum.

 

[taipan]

Errrr. And what about the rest of the world? They seem to have grabbed the name "rugby" to mean, well, rugby.

If you want to have an international game, try to find an international name. Rugby seems to have been taken, well and truly.

The rest of the world or the rest of the union known world:lol: supposedly international.The Chinese and Indians are literally bombarding the switchboards that there is only one code of rugby:lol: union.
There are two codes of rugby Woods,one more time for the dummies two codes of rugby.
The French court recognises the fact,the dictionaries recognise the fact,even the Victorians and South Australians referred to both codes of rugby as rugby,now they are learning there is an exciting 13 man game of rugby,the Australian and state govts recognise it,the British govts ditto.In South Australia last year 200 high school students wanted to play rugby league in the comp,this year 600 students.
Sport England the govt agency,offers grants to rugby league(as the sport is booming at grassroots level) not league.

I personally dont care if we call it rugby or rugby league or union or rugby union.The plain simple matter of fact there are 2 codes of rugby set in stone in situ,and no manner of you bleating from you rah rah lectern,in your prententious style is going to change it.You are calling from the wilds of wamberal ,and no one is listening.

 

[Woods99]

Indeed, so its rugby and union then. Glad that's settled.

Only settled in your fevered imagination.:lol:

 

[Woods99]

The rest of the world or the rest of the union known world:lol: supposedly international.The Chinese and Indians are literally bombarding the switchboards that there is only one code of rugby:lol: union.
You are calling from the wilds of wamberal ,and no one is listening.

Taipan,

Well, you seem to be listening. Can you hear the sound of the Wamberal surf?

Do you seriously, really, truly, believe that more people believe that the 13 a-side game is "rugby"?

Really? Truly? Seriously?

Incidentally, if that is the case, what is all the fuss about league gaining entry to the GAISF? Rugby is already there. So if your assertion is correct, your game is already in. But, it's not. Apparently a slight flaw in your logic.

China enters a team in the Hong Kong Sevens every year, and they entered a team in the Asian under 19 regional play-offs, leading up to the World Under 19 championship under way now. That's "world". Not "Australian".

 

[Woods99]

No punt ,is a term specifically to apply to a game,where running with a ball in hand is considered unnatural,and repetitive kicking is the considered alternative.Some fella by the name of Garry Owen had his finger in the pie.
Punt can also be described as a flat ,slow moving river car carrier,not dissimilar to a 8 man scrum.

Taipan,

Perhaps a little history lesson is in order. You see, kicking has always been an important part of rugby.

It has also been an important part of your game. One of the game's idols (Clive Churchill) was feted for his ability in kicking contests. Yes, you read it here. Kicking contests, when full-backs actually kicked the ball to each other in an effort to out-manouevre the other side. Revolutionary, eh?

When rugby started (at The Rugby School) points were only scored for kicking goals. A "try" simply allowed a kick for goal, without which no points were scored.

In real rugby, as in certain other codes, the ball in the air, or along the ground, is an important weapon. And because the defending player actually has to defend his position and possession immediately (unlike in some other codes where the defender is able to flop to the ground, wriggle around a little bit, slowly rise to his feet, look around and make sure that his mates have gathered around, and push the ball back sheepishly between his legs *phew...such excitement*) a clearing kick is often the best and only option.

Talking of garryowens, or I believe that some codes call them "bombs", I cannot help but remind myself that it is not all that long ago that another code had to change its rules to stamp out the frequency, and monotony, of the "bomb" after the fifth tackle.

If you think a rugby scrum is a flat, slow moving car carrier, then I can only suggest that you consider changing your preferred tipple. You are seeing things.

 

[screeny]

Woods how can it be 'game, set and match' when so many people around the world refer to RL as just rugby.

Most accept that even in Australia, a Vic would call either RU and RL just rugby upon sight, without making the distinction.

The only reason it's wider known is because RL was banned in armed forces for a century. Now that it isn't RL, undeniably, is growing, ipso facto the common usage of the word rugby to refer to RL will expand accordingly.

 

[Woods99]

Woods how can it be 'game, set and match' when so many people around the world refer to RL as just rugby.

Do you have any evidence for your assertion that "so many people around the world" actually recognise rugby league? Who are these hordes? Where do they live? Why don't they play the game, if it is clearly superior, which you guys believe it is?

It is true, that at a superficial level, rugby union and rugby league are similar games. Certainly, compared to, say, soccer, or volleyball, they could even be the same game to a casual viewer.

But that is not the point, surely. The simple fact is that rugby is recognised as the defining name. And far more people actually understand and recognise rugby union as a sport, and play it, world-wide, than understand, recognise, and play rugby league.

So you are behind the eight ball. You need to differentiate your game. A distinctive name would be a good start, although some kind of authoritative international body should come first. But then, leaguies do not seem to be all that good at starting at the beginning, and moving forward in a logical and structured manner.

Most accept that even in Australia, a Vic would call either RU and RL just rugby upon sight, without making the distinction.

Well, yes. I have been pointing this out for a long time. The game that suffers is obviously not rugby union, because the generic term belongs, rightly or wrongly, to the 15 a-side game. Even Tim Webster, on Channel Ten news, has started to refer to "rugby".....not to mention David Gallup.:roll:

The only reason it's wider known is because RL was banned in armed forces for a century. Now that it isn't RL, undeniably, is growing, ipso facto the common usage of the word rugby to refer to RL will expand accordingly.

Rugby is growing far faster. For example, in the US, league has just jumped from 8 teams to 10. Or was it 12? Compared to thousands playing rugby union.

The only countries that I can think of where league is bigger than rugby union, after 100+ years of professionalism, are Australia, PNG, Lebanon, and Serbia.

Have a look at the IRB website for all the others. The British military must have a lot more influence than some might give them credit for. Argentina? Japan? The Pacific Islands? China? All because of the British Military?:lol:

If, and when, rugby league gets a decent international body with some authority and some marketing expertise, the first thing they will have to look at is defining the product, which means giving your sport a distinctive name.

Rugby is taken, by etymology, by tradition, and by common usage. Why beat your heads against a brick wall? Sponsors will demand something sellable, not the name of a better known rival code.

 

[Paley]

Have a look at the IRB website for all the others. The British military must have a lot more influence than some might give them credit for. Argentina? Japan? The Pacific Islands? China? All because of the British Military

Certainly Fiji and probably Japan and Tonga.

 

[bobbis]

Every RU player and official has every right to call their sport rugby with no union on the end. I'm sorry if this offends some but rugby is the proper name for the sport most of you refer to as rugby union. It always has been and always will be. Rugby Union is merely another term for rugby made common to many so as to differentiate from rugby league and avoid confusion it is not however the proper name.

To those who wish to reclaim the name 'rugby' from its rightful owner let me remind you of a few facts you seem to have overlooked. In 1895 21 clubs split from the RFU, they formed their own union the Northern Rugby Football Union. Slowly they began to change the rules, 1901 they changed to the Northern Rugby League and in 1922 to the Rugby Football League. All of these moves they were completely within their rights to make, however when they begun to change the rules and they did they effectively created their own sport, not merely a seperate governing body of the same sport. In 1886 well before the break away of northern English clubs the IRFB was formed as the worldwide governing body of the sport of rugby. When what we now call rugby league begun to alter the rules they created a new sport, the onus was on rugby league to alter its name not the original sport. To this day the original sport of rugby lives on and is governed by the same organisations it was then.

So the question is why should rugby give up its name, in 1894 the sport of rugby was played in many countries such as England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, France, South Africa, Australia, Argentina, New Zealand and Zimbabwe. A year later 21 clubs from a single country England succeed, form a new governing body and begin to alter the rules of the sport. Canadian football, American football and Australian football all originated from rugby, however strangely none of these sports troed to claim ownership of rugby or insist that with the formation of their sport the sport of rugby was dead. However some not all rugby league fans insist that 1895 marked the end of rugby and the creation of two new sports. The sport of rugby played in 1894 was the same as in 1896 theres a direct continuation, the same governing bodies that existed in 1894 are still here today in 2006, they still govern the same sport its called rugby.

Theres no union in IRB or RWC, nor is there in the official titles of numerous rugby governing bodies such as the Federation Francaise de Rugby or Federazione Italiano de Rugby, you'll also find that in numerous cases union doesn't directly follow rugby, such as RFU, IRFU, SARFU or Union Argentine de Rugby among many others. So you have to ask yourself if its called 'Rugby Union' why is union missing from the international bodies name, the world cup, numerous national bodies and competitions, why union in numerous cases isnt found directly after rugby. If its Rugby union not rugby as it was undisputedly recognised as before 1895 why then was there no changes in the title of the sport.

I've got no problems with the name rugby league, however i do have problems with those who insist rugby died in 1895 to be replaced with 2 new sports, that simply isn't the case. The reality is rugby has continued to this day uninterupted, while a new sport rugby league was begun in 1895.

Any confusion related to the name rugby is completely due to rugby league failure to differentiate itself and rename itself like Canadian, American and Australian football all did when the evolved form rugby.

 

[Paley]

Where does League follow Rugby in RFL or ARL?

The RWC is actually the IRB RWC - just as the soccer world cup is the FIFA World Cup.

When the Northern teams split they didn't split from the game but from the governing body - they continued to play rugby and still do. Neither RU nor RL is the same these days as the game played in 1895. Union might have more similarities but it just evolved more slowly.

 

[taipan]

Taipan,

Perhaps a little history lesson is in order. You see, kicking has always been an important part of rugby.

It has also been an important part of your game. One of the game's idols (Clive Churchill) was feted for his ability in kicking contests. Yes, you read it here. Kicking contests, when full-backs actually kicked the ball to each other in an effort to out-manouevre the other side. Revolutionary, eh?

When rugby started (at The Rugby School) points were only scored for kicking goals. A "try" simply allowed a kick for goal, without which no points were scored.

In real rugby, as in certain other codes, the ball in the air, or along the ground, is an important weapon. And because the defending player actually has to defend his position and possession immediately (unlike in some other codes where the defender is able to flop to the ground, wriggle around a little bit, slowly rise to his feet, look around and make sure that his mates have gathered around, and push the ball back sheepishly between his legs *phew...such excitement*) a clearing kick is often the best and only option.

Talking of garryowens, or I believe that some codes call them "bombs", I cannot help but remind myself that it is not all that long ago that another code had to change its rules to stamp out the frequency, and monotony, of the "bomb" after the fifth tackle.

If you think a rugby scrum is a flat, slow moving car carrier, then I can only suggest that you consider changing your preferred tipple. You are seeing things.

funny you like to quote history when it suits,yet ignore what when on in France-selective morality ole son.Please dont throw up history to me:lol:

Guess what the kicking contests became a boreathon,when it was done on a couple of occasions the crowd at Cronulla booed.The name of the game is to run the ball,or as teh unionites when they have a wetty "ball in hand".
The game has moved on from the greats like Churchhill etc,it is booming in oz,and the UK,not because of kicking contests ,or to watch the ball sail monotonously over the sideline.In the runnning real rugby game ,league the ball in most cases when kicked is kept in play.

The beauty of a sport is to actually see it played for the majority of the time on the field,not outside in the stands .Its called ball in play time,givng spectators entertainment and value for money-That great advt Waratahs v Cheetahs S(LOL) 14 game,when the crowd slow handclapped,due to the innumerable stoppages says it all.

To watch phase after phase of players humping each other as they crabwise go across the field,gaining b..all ground is as exciting as watching my departed grandmother knitting.To watch a rollling maul suddenly collapse over the line and someone scores is the most exciting thing since grass grew.The ever collapsing scrums and the miriad of rules,yep that is supposedly real rugby,real comedy more like it.
The players spend so much time ground grovelling and chewing the grass and then kicking it,no wonder the spectators have such a time having a drink,a chat,discussing business takovers,or what to wear at the next school formal.

Read my lips,Dunning,Handy the epitome of union forwards.
The only thing you are correct on,the game of union would drive anyone to have a tipple.