Recruitment for next year

[SpaceMonkey]

You think Doyle would cave if Foran requested a new coach as part of his sign on?

Nope. I think if Foran comes it'll be on Doyle's terms.

 

[WithTheDawn]

Not sure what to think of the idea of signing Foran. I'm really keen to see how Hingano goes, but he is perhaps another year off anyway. Would be a travesty if we lost Ata or Tui due to signing Foran for one year.

Plus, when is the last time we signed a star back player that actually turned out to be decent...scratching my head at that one. We tend to go better with average journeymen players in those positions.

 

[JJ]

It's not hard to check, look at their stats this year. Season averages:
Hoff: 115m
Mannering: 91m
Mutts: 122m
Bull: 111m

Sure averages com one source, and all close on 100. Merrin has 26 games in a row over 100. As I and vv said, harder with wings stealing all the hit ups

 

[jaseg]

The other day a commentator said Merrin had strung together about 25 consecutive games in which he'd made 100 or more metres. Jaseg will probably know but I doubt there's a Warriors forward that's done that 5 times this year! Part of that is coach and his semi for big wings. But only Lillyman and Matulino are likely anyway

Just 2. Matulino got 5 games in a row in early in the year (rounds 3-7), and Hoffman is currently on a run of 7 in a row.

Cowboys & Bulldogs starting middles have all done it (most of them with much longer streaks), Storm, Raiders Broncos & Sharks starting middles 2/3 have done it.

 

[Rich102]

Anyone thinking that getting Kieran Foran will solve the Warriors woes is dreaming.

The Kiwis and former Manly and Parramatta five-eighth has spoken to Warriors managing director Jim Doyle about playing for the Auckland club although no formal offer has yet been made.

Aside from battling some rather serious personal issues in recent months - Foran admitted trying to take his own life back in April - the Warriors would need to get him cleared by the NRL to register any potential contract. He was linked to match fixing accusations though those allegations are very much unsubstantiated at this point. Even if the Warriors managed to tick off all of that his arrival wouldn't be a catalyst to make them title contenders anyway.

Sure possessing the entire Kiwis spine would be a huge coup for the Warriors but it is no use having Lewis Hamilton trying to win a Formula 1 Grand Prix whilst driving a 1990 Nissan Sentra. The Warriors don't have the forward pack to match it with the best sides in the competition - they need upgrades there badly.

Individually the Warriors forwards show promise but collectively they don't have the right balance.

Simon Mannering and Ryan Hoffman are tireless workers and are great at their role but they off very little on attack. Ben Matulino carries the ball strongly but needs to get faster play-the-balls to lay a good foundation. Jacob Lillyman will cart the ball forward tirelessly but doesn't offer any late footwork at the line to ensure faster play-the-balls. Sam Lisone is brilliant one minute and then crazy the next. There is no real offloading specialist. There is no hard-running edge runner - though Bodene Thompson is effective on the right edge. There is no real aggressor - the enforcer that takes it upon himself to unsettle an opposition pack.

This Warriors roster looks good on paper - we were all duped into thinking the acquisition of Issac Luke and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck last year would turn the Warriors into contenders now. We were all wrong. And the addition of Foran will work out the same next season unless that pack is improved. The roster has been assembled to cover holes. Two 80 minute defense-focused back-rowers were signed to help a shaky edge defense. That limits attack - it makes it harder for Shaun Johnson or Foran to pry open a gap if they don't have much weaponry to play with. To cover for an under-sized pack the Warriors have used big, chunky wingers to help get sets going early and make it easier for the forwards to get into their work on tackle three onwards. But doing that leaves the Warriors vulnerable for those big wingers to be targeted with kicks in behind as the Rabbitohs so effectively managed on Saturday night.

The Warriors biggest need is to sort out the pack. They don't have a heap of money to spend under the cap so signing Foran would take up a significant portion of what they have to play with even if he came on a discount. There is not enough free space to sign Foran and make any significant additions to the forwards.

Foran is a fine player - he is tough, has a terrific work ethic and prior to this season would have been one of the best halves in the NRL. But adding him might be a luxury the Warriors don't actually need to really spruce up the roster.

Unless Doyle is planning on letting under contract players leave (think Manu Vatuvei) I see no major upside to picking up Foran at this point. In fact, the risk greatly outweighs the reward.

- NZ Herald
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11694739

 

[JJ]

Just 2. Matulino got 5 games in a row in early in the year (rounds 3-7), and Hoffman is currently on a run of 7 in a row.

Cowboys & Bulldogs starting middles have all done it (most of them with much longer streaks), Storm, Raiders Broncos & Sharks starting middles 2/3 have done it.

I started from, f**k Merrin's a good player... which he is, I know he's played Origin etc, but I wonder if he's just about the most underrated middle forward in the game - I know Taumololo is destructive, but Merrin does a huge amount in the #13

But yeah, it's a worry - as we've noted part of it is to do with the genius of having wings play as props, but it also means we're seldom dominating the middle of the field - and I have no doubt Matulino, Lillyman and Vete are up to it

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Hoffman offer very little on attack, apparently. Not sure what games the writer has been watching lately.

Sign someone like Paul Vaughan, get Sipley into the NRL ASAP, keep promoting Bunty, get a new coach to motivate Mutts who looks like he wants to be anywhere else but on the field for us...then you're getting there. Vete will become a good NRL prop, the other two have already been there. And maybe Lisone can morph into a back rower once he creates links between his brain and his body.

 

[VillaTheGorilla]

Anyone thinking that getting Kieran Foran will solve the Warriors woes is dreaming.

The Kiwis and former Manly and Parramatta five-eighth has spoken to Warriors managing director Jim Doyle about playing for the Auckland club although no formal offer has yet been made.

Aside from battling some rather serious personal issues in recent months - Foran admitted trying to take his own life back in April - the Warriors would need to get him cleared by the NRL to register any potential contract. He was linked to match fixing accusations though those allegations are very much unsubstantiated at this point. Even if the Warriors managed to tick off all of that his arrival wouldn't be a catalyst to make them title contenders anyway.

Sure possessing the entire Kiwis spine would be a huge coup for the Warriors but it is no use having Lewis Hamilton trying to win a Formula 1 Grand Prix whilst driving a 1990 Nissan Sentra. The Warriors don't have the forward pack to match it with the best sides in the competition - they need upgrades there badly.

Individually the Warriors forwards show promise but collectively they don't have the right balance.

Simon Mannering and Ryan Hoffman are tireless workers and are great at their role but they off very little on attack. Ben Matulino carries the ball strongly but needs to get faster play-the-balls to lay a good foundation. Jacob Lillyman will cart the ball forward tirelessly but doesn't offer any late footwork at the line to ensure faster play-the-balls. Sam Lisone is brilliant one minute and then crazy the next. There is no real offloading specialist. There is no hard-running edge runner - though Bodene Thompson is effective on the right edge. There is no real aggressor - the enforcer that takes it upon himself to unsettle an opposition pack.

This Warriors roster looks good on paper - we were all duped into thinking the acquisition of Issac Luke and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck last year would turn the Warriors into contenders now. We were all wrong. And the addition of Foran will work out the same next season unless that pack is improved. The roster has been assembled to cover holes. Two 80 minute defense-focused back-rowers were signed to help a shaky edge defense. That limits attack - it makes it harder for Shaun Johnson or Foran to pry open a gap if they don't have much weaponry to play with. To cover for an under-sized pack the Warriors have used big, chunky wingers to help get sets going early and make it easier for the forwards to get into their work on tackle three onwards. But doing that leaves the Warriors vulnerable for those big wingers to be targeted with kicks in behind as the Rabbitohs so effectively managed on Saturday night.

The Warriors biggest need is to sort out the pack. They don't have a heap of money to spend under the cap so signing Foran would take up a significant portion of what they have to play with even if he came on a discount. There is not enough free space to sign Foran and make any significant additions to the forwards.

Foran is a fine player - he is tough, has a terrific work ethic and prior to this season would have been one of the best halves in the NRL. But adding him might be a luxury the Warriors don't actually need to really spruce up the roster.

Unless Doyle is planning on letting under contract players leave (think Manu Vatuvei) I see no major upside to picking up Foran at this point. In fact, the risk greatly outweighs the reward.

- NZ Herald
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11694739

I call B.S.
Hoffman - was one of the best hole running backrowers before he came here. Scored a few good tries running off of Chad last year, that's slowed down with TL this year, but I have no doubt Foran would be able to create space for him.
Mannering - love what he does, don't want him going anywhere.
Thompson - good hole runner, underrated and a quality signing. Prone to the odd error or missed tackle though.
Vete - is developing an offload, but largely I'm loving what he's bringing, will get even better in years to come.
Matulino - has been down on form this year, but has been one of our best forwards for years. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt to get out of this slump he's been in.
Lillyman - Battering ram, makes a million hit ups all day. Getting older now, but still does what he needs to.
Lisone - too small to be a prop imo. He brings energy and somethin different when he comes on, but we can't be replacing a prop with him because we lose so much go forward.

I really think we need to develop Bunty and Siply - they both offer something different to what the rest of the forwards bring.
If Issac was playing 80min, which he should be, we could run with 4 forwards on the bench. At the moment we're running with Lisone who isnt a prop, and Matulino. No wonder we're struggling with impact, we need more up front but Cappy ain't playing them!

 

[vvvrulz]

Agree with Villa, there is a lot of talent and untapped potential there.

We need to empower these guys to do the grunt work, get Ken and Manu away unless it's a first tackle carry, maybe second at most.

TL has thrown Hoff a couple of quality forward passes and falcons this year.
We are massively under using Hoff's attacking ability lately.

 

[Shaun Hewitt]

Confirmed gains and losses for 2017?

As far as I know....

Gains: N/A
Losses: Thomas Leuluai

 

[Rich102]

Is Tolman still on the market?

 

[TheDMC]

Don't agree with Budge entirely. Foran would be a great addition if his issues dealt with. Smart tough player like that will benefit the forwards too. He will get field position and snipe good holes and meters himself around the middle. Plus defends like a champ. But yeah we need a gruntier forward pack, whether through recruitment or Bunty and Sipley.

What is wrong with our development of our forwards? Mannering has been around forever, and Muts has played first grade since 2008. Have we actually produced a home grown top quality forward since 2008? If not, then that is abysmal. Apart from the above mentioned two, our pack is australian bred or kiwi youngsters learning their craft. Some quality forwards from warriors have emerged since they split to Oz clubs of course.

Not expecting top players to come off the local assembly line every year, but you would expect two or three in 8 years surely.

 

[VillaTheGorilla]

Don't agree with Budge entirely. Foran would be a great addition if his issues dealt with. Smart tough player like that will benefit the forwards too. He will get field position and snipe good holes and meters himself around the middle. Plus defends like a champ. But yeah we need a gruntier forward pack, whether through recruitment or Bunty and Sipley.

What is wrong with our development of our forwards? Mannering has been around forever, and Muts has played first grade since 2008. Have we actually produced a home grown top quality forward since 2008? If not, then that is abysmal. Apart from the above mentioned two, our pack is australian bred or kiwi youngsters learning their craft. Some quality forwards from warriors have emerged since they split to Oz clubs of course.

Not expecting top players to come off the local assembly line every year, but you would expect two or three in 8 years surely.

It's a bit tough though...all the guys who have gone to Australia have done so because they wouldn't have been able to crack our squad. Since 2008 we've had the likes of Price, Wiki, Mannering, Hoffman, Matulino, Lillyman...even Packer was looking good for a few years. Before Vete and Lisone, we've not really given any of our young guys an extended run long enough to develop them really, so they all end up going overseas.

Would love it if in 4 years we had Vete, Bunty, Sipley and Lisone and maybe Matulino if he's still around.

 

[vvvrulz]

Injury finished Sammy Raps unfortunately, there's the Lousi's who were meh

Yeah point stands

 

[TheDMC]

I we've not really given any of our young guys an extended run long enough to develop them really, so they all end up going overseas.

Would love it if in 4 years we had Vete, Bunty, Sipley and Lisone and maybe Matulino if he's still around.

this is true and probably to the detriment of the club over a long period.

 

[Fufu Andronez]

Annoying thing is, we could potentially have a soloution to the forward problem EXCEPT for some reason Sipley can't get more than 15 minutes a month in the top grade.

We have a potential gem sitting there, not being given enough time IMO

 

[jaseg]

Annoying thing is, we could potentially have a soloution to the forward problem EXCEPT for some reason Sipley can't get more than 15 minutes a month in the top grade.

We have a potential gem sitting there, not being given enough time IMO

Should've got a go this week to be honest.

Lisone has given away 4 errors and 5 penalties in his last 4 games (132 minutes on the field). He should have been dropped.

I started from, f**k Merrin's a good player... which he is, I know he's played Origin etc, but I wonder if he's just about the most underrated middle forward in the game - I know Taumololo is destructive, but Merrin does a huge amount in the #13

But yeah, it's a worry - as we've noted part of it is to do with the genius of having wings play as props, but it also means we're seldom dominating the middle of the field - and I have no doubt Matulino, Lillyman and Vete are up to it

Yep, I like Merrin a lot... though Taumalolo is #1 for me. The kid is just freakish... nobody even gets close to doing what he does - and he (comparatively) just doesn't make errors. Fantastic. No weak spots anywhere in his game, really..

Lillyman has been solid, Matulino down on form for sure (I wonder why?).. Vete could be anything if he could sort out his tackling. Same for Lisone and his brain explosions.

 

[Big Marn]

Should've got a go this week to be honest.

Lisone has given away 4 errors and 5 penalties in his last 4 games (132 minutes on the field). He should have been dropped.




Yep, I like Merrin a lot... though Taumalolo is #1 for me. The kid is just freakish... nobody even gets close to doing what he does - and he (comparatively) just doesn't make errors. Fantastic. No weak spots anywhere in his game, really..

Lillyman has been solid, Matulino down on form for sure (I wonder why?).. Vete could be anything if he could sort out his tackling. Same for Lisone and his brain explosions.

I rated Lisone above Vete after that stellar season in the U20s. Thought he was going to develop in to something reasonable in a prop rotation, like Packer did. But as we've seen, the boys comp is too many levels below NRL to get a line on their ability properly. And even though he looked sizeable against other U20s he just doesnt seem to have bulked up at all and looks too small to have any real impact long term as a Prop (without going into all the stupid shit in his game) Would love a Merrin in the team. How come we cant find another Ali on the local scene?

 

[Penrose Warrior]

It's a bit tough though...all the guys who have gone to Australia have done so because they wouldn't have been able to crack our squad. Since 2008 we've had the likes of Price, Wiki, Mannering, Hoffman, Matulino, Lillyman...even Packer was looking good for a few years. Before Vete and Lisone, we've not really given any of our young guys an extended run long enough to develop them really, so they all end up going overseas.

Would love it if in 4 years we had Vete, Bunty, Sipley and Lisone and maybe Matulino if he's still around.

I think the point is that guys like SST, Paasi etc were in our system, and obviously had talent as they've gone elsewhere to become beasts. So we failed with them. It's okay to not identify NZ-based talent but it's not okay to not advance players on your books. Sipley better not be the next. Packer doesn't really count, he was an off-field liability obviously.

I'm glad more people are coming around to thinking Lisone is a waste of space. Ultimate flat track bully. Against big, quality packs he gets monstered, gives away penalties/throws dumb passes under the heat of it all. If he wants to be an NRL player it'll be as a second rower. Not big enough, does have the ball skills.

 

[TheDMC]

Vete could be anything .

Who are you really Jaseg?