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Ref and Bunker Decisions

Rod

Bench
Messages
3,704
5 minutes into the weekend and we already have a terrible obstruction decision. No try all day (at least based on the first half of the season!).
 

gerg

Juniors
Messages
2,476
OK, then he might have said it (apologies) but I didn't.

I mean, essentially this is my point of view. Union refs=professional, but hamstrung by chaotic laws. League refs=dunderheads, but have comparatively easy laws to police. League is an insanely better product, but gee I wish it was better policed.

I think we can all agree it starts with Annesley, who is a pimple on the arse of this game.

There is no 'might' involved here. He 'did' write it. There is a difference between the words, and yes my comprehension is fine.

Happy to put this aside and cut to the issue. What I was trying to emphasise earlier is that if rugby league referees refereed the same way as rugby union referees, the game would very quickly turn to the shit product that rugby union is.

Imagine if the referees started penalising every single player that did not play the ball correctly. Imagine if instead of calling an offside player out of the play, they instead just penalised them. Just these two examples and we would have referees blowing 40+ penalties a game and it would be shit. Instead we have referees that game manage. Everyone complains about it but the complaints would multiply if they just started penalising every single little indiscretion the players commit, to the letter of the law. That is how rugby union referees referee their game and IMO that is just as big a contributing factor as to why their game is shit, as much as the very technical nature of their rules.
 

Someguy

First Grade
Messages
7,119
Odd bunker comments in the Panthers v Storm game. Position of the fullback ruling out possibility of sin bin on what was a professional foul. Confused with penalty try?
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,346
There is no 'might' involved here. He 'did' write it. There is a difference between the words, and yes my comprehension is fine.

Happy to put this aside and cut to the issue. What I was trying to emphasise earlier is that if rugby league referees refereed the same way as rugby union referees, the game would very quickly turn to the shit product that rugby union is.

Imagine if the referees started penalising every single player that did not play the ball correctly. Imagine if instead of calling an offside player out of the play, they instead just penalised them. Just these two examples and we would have referees blowing 40+ penalties a game and it would be shit. Instead we have referees that game manage. Everyone complains about it but the complaints would multiply if they just started penalising every single little indiscretion the players commit, to the letter of the law. That is how rugby union referees referee their game and IMO that is just as big a contributing factor as to why their game is shit, as much as the very technical nature of their rules.
Incidentally, we've done this in the past. Our game has quite often taken a relatively minor issue - playing the ball with the foot, being one of the past - and obsessively focused on it for weeks and months.

You probably have a point on the union refs and their pedantry, but as I've said over and over, I see refs who, in general, get calls right. They look on replay, and they get things right. They don't overreact when they're tired and maybe emotional. Our refs do.

If you call it game management, I call it blindly guessing, being far too influenced by big personalities and home crowds, and just flat out making dumb, obviously wrong calls.
 

Big Marn

Bench
Messages
2,910
. Imagine if instead of calling an offside player out of the play, they instead just penalised them.
That aged well.
Thats exactly what that muppet Ashley Klein + Bunker buddy did last night. Straight after Panthers kick the ball dead, instead of tapping the restart, Pappy goes for the touch finder.
Anderson is on the other side of the field slightly offside, but miles from the play when Pappy kicked to the opposite side of the field and gets penalised for offside.
Normally, they would ask them to kick or retap again, but not Klein ( + Bunker buddy), who is the NRL's BEST referee chosen to ref the game of the round.
The thing that rugby union has over the nrl in spades is that their refs have common sense and the ability to overrule the bunker. It seems in the NRL that the bunkers word is final which seems inflexible as f**k.
 

Pjf04b

Juniors
Messages
498
Because it was a Captain’s Challenge they had to follow the rules, not just give the ball back. Just shows how the refs make things up as they go along.
 

Fangs

Coach
Messages
13,364
Yesterday was just refereeing masterclass wasn't it?

Imagine if they do that in the finals.
 

gerg

Juniors
Messages
2,476
We have a very popular game because it is fast and the players are amazing. The rules or game management are developed or have evolved to showcase the players. The players are the focus. In rugby union they marvel at the referee. " Oh the referee had a wonderful game tonight. He blew 58 marvellous penalties. He really nailed that one where the hooker failed to hold onto his tight head prop's jersey correctly after the scrum was reset 16 times in the 32nd to 38th minute. "

We, as supporters along with the journos and talking heads have an unhealthy fixation on the referees. It doesn't matter which team is favoured people f***ing whinge like they've been wronged. Exhibit A is a post or two above mine. Somebody is complaining about the bunker getting a decision correct. Anderson in front of the kick on the restart. The decision is correct. Yet a fan of the game is complaining about a correct decision being made.

What I think is a genuine gripe is the administration of the game making regular rule changes that make things much more difficult for the referees. A 40/20 ... okay let's make a 20/40 as well. No stripping of the ball... hang on, what about if tackler 2 and 3 let go and in a split second tackler 1 is allowed to strip the ball. Let's make up a rule that instead of penalising teams we'll give them 6 more tackles ... yeah, yeah good idea. A year later. OK let's make it a penalty if it's done in this section of the field but outside of that it's a 6 again. Oh and let's add further indiscretions to the mix.

The administration is the problem. Changing the rules constantly to, sure make the game a better spectacle but it just makes it more difficult for the referee. You have Annesley blindly supporting the bunkers f**kups. Last week Panthers won a game off the back of a potential obstruction/block runner taking out a Parra player. Annesley comes out and says its fine. Then last night Cleary is taken out in a similar fashion. Bunker let's it go because possibly (?) Annesley said the decision last week was correct. In a few weeks a team is going to get totally screwed over on an obstruction call - very possible it will be a finals game too. We have Annesley telling players not to 'milk' penalties but if they don't .... it's play on. The players and coaches aren't stupid, so they milk it. Everyone complains about the officials but nobody puts any blame on the coaches for manipulating the rules to win a game. Bellamy is a prime example. Great coach but the wrestling shit was incredible. As soon as one wrestling move/hold was outlawed he's creating new ones. That's unreal to me. We had this incredible spike in pec injuries because of all that wrestling shit.

But to provide balance cast your mind back nearly a decade and our game was becoming pretty tough to watch. We had the top teams ... roosters, storm and sharks wrestling the absolute shit out of every team. And because it was successful for the top teams every team was adopting the shit. The game was a struggle to watch. Credit must go to the administration and the referees for coming up with, and implementing the 6again rule. Was/is it perfect? No. But it has gotten rid of the God awful wrestling. The game is good to watch again.

I think as fans we need to step back and have a more balanced opinion and conversations about the state of the game. The Talking heads create this bullshit hysteria to get clicks and we all buy into it too much. As fans we need to stop listening to these dickhead journos who create this noise.
 

Fangs

Coach
Messages
13,364
Well there is a different idiot in the bunker that has a major blunder every week

It's Klein. He creates the problems with his stupid methods.

Remove him and its a quick win. Annesley gets a raise if he fires Klein.

I don't normally engage with ref pile on it is what it is but Klein is just something else.
 
Messages
15,123
That aged well.
Thats exactly what that muppet Ashley Klein + Bunker buddy did last night. Straight after Panthers kick the ball dead, instead of tapping the restart, Pappy goes for the touch finder.
Anderson is on the other side of the field slightly offside, but miles from the play when Pappy kicked to the opposite side of the field and gets penalised for offside.
Normally, they would ask them to kick or retap again, but not Klein ( + Bunker buddy), who is the NRL's BEST referee chosen to ref the game of the round.
The thing that rugby union has over the nrl in spades is that their refs have common sense and the ability to overrule the bunker. It seems in the NRL that the bunkers word is final which seems inflexible as f**k.

Under the rules of the game, there is no "advantage play" if an infringement occurs. Any infringement from a kick-off or 20m optional restart is a mandatory penalty. Its one of the first things drilled into you when you start out as a junior league referee. Heck Edwards could have caught the ball, run the length of the field and scored, but by the rules, it would have come back for a penalty to Penrith for Anderson being offside. Klein nor the bunker would have any option.

For reference from the current rugby league rule book, section 8 to be precise (Source: https://www.playrugbyleague.com/media/14513/nrl-international-rules-book-2023_web-version-1.pdf) -

1723772617013.png
 

Maximus

Coach
Messages
13,176
I think as fans we need to step back and have a more balanced opinion and conversations about the state of the game. The Talking heads create this bullshit hysteria to get clicks and we all buy into it too much. As fans we need to stop listening to these dickhead journos who create this noise.

You may be influenced by them, but most of us watch and form our own opinions about how bad the refs are.
 

Vee

First Grade
Messages
5,569
That aged well.
Thats exactly what that muppet Ashley Klein + Bunker buddy did last night. Straight after Panthers kick the ball dead, instead of tapping the restart, Pappy goes for the touch finder.
Anderson is on the other side of the field slightly offside, but miles from the play when Pappy kicked to the opposite side of the field and gets penalised for offside.
Normally, they would ask them to kick or retap again, but not Klein ( + Bunker buddy), who is the NRL's BEST referee chosen to ref the game of the round.
The thing that rugby union has over the nrl in spades is that their refs have common sense and the ability to overrule the bunker. It seems in the NRL that the bunkers word is final which seems inflexible as f**k.
Put the blame where it lies. It was dumb footy.
 

Mr. Shaman

First Grade
Messages
8,216
Because it was a Captain’s Challenge they had to follow the rules, not just give the ball back. Just shows how the refs make things up as they go along.
So it doesn’t matter that some Penrith players were also offside?

Genuine question.
 

Pezz70

Juniors
Messages
1,977
Under the rules of the game, there is no "advantage play" if an infringement occurs. Any infringement from a kick-off or 20m optional restart is a mandatory penalty. Its one of the first things drilled into you when you start out as a junior league referee. Heck Edwards could have caught the ball, run the length of the field and scored, but by the rules, it would have come back for a penalty to Penrith for Anderson being offside. Klein nor the bunker would have any option.

For reference from the current rugby league rule book, section 8 to be precise (Source: https://www.playrugbyleague.com/media/14513/nrl-international-rules-book-2023_web-version-1.pdf) -

View attachment 92538
The fact that the re-start was not taken in the prescribed manner, ie; at the centre mark on the 20m line comes under 6(d) anyway
 

Mr. Shaman

First Grade
Messages
8,216
Under the rules of the game, there is no "advantage play" if an infringement occurs. Any infringement from a kick-off or 20m optional restart is a mandatory penalty. Its one of the first things drilled into you when you start out as a junior league referee. Heck Edwards could have caught the ball, run the length of the field and scored, but by the rules, it would have come back for a penalty to Penrith for Anderson being offside. Klein nor the bunker would have any option.

For reference from the current rugby league rule book, section 8 to be precise (Source: https://www.playrugbyleague.com/media/14513/nrl-international-rules-book-2023_web-version-1.pdf) -

View attachment 92538
B was broken by Storm, whilst C was also broken by Penrith. Both teams offended, what should the result have been?
 

Pezz70

Juniors
Messages
1,977
I’m at the point where I think the bunker should only be used for captains challenges and grounding the ball in the in-goal. It’s pervasive now and blokes are staying on the ground for reviews of rubbish that they often get a penalty for
 

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