RIP Western Force- Pirates?

[ReddFelon]

Not really, with the return of the jets there arent too many old clubs gone and new clubs have come in. We’ve probably got as many jnr clubs now as at any time and wider geographical spread than ever. The growth in jnr. Clubs in SW is impressive.

Tbh I just wanted to shout out the warriors, good memories playing their through school. It is a tad annoying that for such a large population centre the closest club is Kalamunda.

 

[Perth Red]

Yeh it’s pretty much same distance to three jnr clubs, around 30kms. Def needs a jnr club in Armadale

 

[ReddFelon]

It was about 2004 when they pushed us to change our name to Rabbitohs that we suddenly had a mass dropoff in players. Many people hated that the club was abandoning the identity, rumours abound that there was a political push because having a Native American chief on the club logo was offending people, obviously around that same time with the emergence of a professional union pathway the Arks club down the road became a much more attractive option for a lot of parents, particularly first gen Kiwi migrants.

What really broke it was the Armadale Demons AFL team pushing for more junior clubs in the Kelmscott/Roleystone area and the local government supporting their bid for our training ground. Perfect shit storm; fewer players, loss of identity and then loss of a club facility.

 

[Perth Red]

Western Forces first game back v Fiji has sold out! Not bad for a friendly. Glad NRL jumped in quickly to capitalise on the ill-feeling of onion fans to ARU lol.

 

[King hit]

Western Forces first game back v Fiji has sold out! Not bad for a friendly. Glad NRL jumped in quickly to capitalise on the ill-feeling of onion fans to ARU lol.

They got 38,000 for the double header and are setting up junior development pathways in Western Australia. Stop whinging

 

[Perth Red]

They got 38,000 for the double header and are setting up junior development pathways in Western Australia. Stop whinging

Yeh we only have to wait another year at least to see another game. We should be so grateful!

 

[adamkungl]

Yeh we only have to wait another year at least to see another game. We should be so grateful!

Enjoy your scraps! Victorian! etc

 

[ReddFelon]

Western Forces first game back v Fiji has sold out! Not bad for a friendly. Glad NRL jumped in quickly to capitalise on the ill-feeling of onion fans to ARU lol.

Let's add to this they also wrangled a live broadcast deal with Fox Sports for all seven games and are announcing something tonight that is either a free to air offering or an online streaming partnership. The ease at which they've done this basically proces the NRLs wait and see policy is bullshit.

 

[Perth Red]

Let's add to this they also wrangled a live broadcast deal with Fox Sports for all seven games and are announcing something tonight that is either a free to air offering or an online streaming partnership. The ease at which they've done this basically proces the NRLs wait and see policy is bullshit.

Yeh amazing one guy with a bit of money has been able to set all this up in 6 months whilst the NRL has effectively had 9 years and is still no nearer!

 

[ReddFelon]

Just gonna confirm this because so many people shit talk those of us critical of the NRLs total lack of direction when it comes to Perth and Bris #2.

Forrest had a dead club in August 2017. Today he confirms he's got a sold out first game at nib stadium, a tv deal with Fox Sports, all games live on free to air on Channel 7Two in WA and time delay on 7mate in all other states and territories. Time delayed streaming for overseas viewers and approval from the World Rugby Board to run a full fledged professional comp next year.


This bloke basically did ten times what you'd need to set up the Pirates/Reds in half a year. No one can deny that wealthy businessmen in Perth who've been pushing WA expansion of the NRL for a decade could've done this by now. We are losing the window to pull this off.

 

[taipan]

Yeh we only have to wait another year at least to see another game. We should be so grateful!

Perhaps with less whingeing you may get more.
BTW the ARU is not contributing one cent to the Force.

 

[RoosTah]

Western Forces first game back v Fiji has sold out! Not bad for a friendly. Glad NRL jumped in quickly to capitalise on the ill-feeling of onion fans to ARU lol.

Like I said, they’ll get an early boost with the feel good factor, but it’s not a model that will sustain itself. I assume we can agree on that given you never even attempted to address all the obvious issues with it I detailed earlier.

Just gonna confirm this because so many people shit talk those of us critical of the NRLs total lack of direction when it comes to Perth and Bris #2.

Forrest had a dead club in August 2017. Today he confirms he's got a sold out first game at nib stadium, a tv deal with Fox Sports, all games live on free to air on Channel 7Two in WA and time delay on 7mate in all other states and territories. Time delayed streaming for overseas viewers and approval from the World Rugby Board to run a full fledged professional comp next year.

This bloke basically did ten times what you'd need to set up the Pirates/Reds in half a year. No one can deny that wealthy businessmen in Perth who've been pushing WA expansion of the NRL for a decade could've done this by now. We are losing the window to pull this off.

It's true that Forrest has pulled out all the stops to try and save this sinking ship, but it's still a sinking ship... the live games on Fox were basically given away (great economic strategy) and putting games on secondary channels or delay is a recipe for them to be ignored.

As I pointed out earlier, Super Rugby has actually bounced back in its ratings etc in all the jurisdictions that count, and while it's still going this frankenstein thing Twiggy has pulled together will slowly atrophy and die.

At the end of the day Rugby in the Southern Hemisphere isn't going to be centred on what works best for WA, and this thing will struggle to field sustained interest.

I get that people see this sugar hit stupidity and think the NRL are losing a window of opportunity, but the reality is the opposite; all this desperation and cash being thrown at a fundamentally flawed product that is doomed to fall apart is actually more a warning to the NRL of what NOT to do.

As I've written before, the NRL is increasing its engagement with the west already and it's pretty clear that expansion is on the cars for the next TV deal. However, they're not gonna make Unions many many mistakes

 

[ReddFelon]

Like I said, they’ll get an early boost with the feel good factor, but it’s not a model that will sustain itself. I assume we can agree on that given you never even attempted to address all the obvious issues with it I detailed earlier.



It's true that Forrest has pulled out all the stops to try and save this sinking ship, but it's still a sinking ship... the live games on Fox were basically given away (great economic strategy) and putting games on secondary channels or delay is a recipe for them to be ignored.

As I pointed out earlier, Super Rugby has actually bounced back in its ratings etc in all the jurisdictions that count, and while it's still going this frankenstein thing Twiggy has pulled together will slowly atrophy and die.

At the end of the day Rugby in the Southern Hemisphere isn't going to be centred on what works best for WA, and this thing will struggle to field sustained interest.

I get that people see this sugar hit stupidity and think the NRL are losing a window of opportunity, but the reality is the opposite; all this desperation and cash being thrown at a fundamentally flawed product that is doomed to fall apart is actually more a warning to the NRL of what NOT to do.

As I've written before, the NRL is increasing its engagement with the west already and it's pretty clear that expansion is on the cars for the next TV deal. However, they're not gonna make Unions many many mistakes

Recovery = a top of the table game being outdone by a repeat of Peppa Pig.

 

[RoosTah]

Are you implying that your understanding of “all the jurisdictions that count” meant I was referring to the ratings in Australia? Because I wasn’t... super rugby survives on TV money provided by a South Africa and Europe, and South Africa and Europe don’t give a stuff about what Forrest is doing

 

[ReddFelon]

Are you implying that your understanding of “all the jurisdictions that count” meant I was referring to the ratings in Australia? Because I wasn’t... super rugby survives on TV money provided by a South Africa and Europe, and South Africa and Europe don’t give a stuff about what Forrest is doing

Mate even the south africans and kiwis aren't coming to the games. You can talk Europe all you want but the message coming loud and clear is it's a dead competition that stays afloat because people want to watch NZ. I'd also question your claim that Foxtel paid nothing for the broadcast because you haven't provided a source. Not to mention SuperSport, Foxtel and SkySport are all struggling with SuperSport suffering from the ever declining Saffa economy, Foxtel having blown a billion on third world baseball (cricket) and Sky Sport having the poor luck of being a media company in a tiny country with a middling economy as well.

I'm not saying I agree that Forrest's idea will work, I'm saying his ability to get it off the ground and somehow attract bigger sponsors than the other union teams (Bankwest, Qantas, Toyota) is something I respect from a business point of view. I'm also saying Super Rugby is a dud comp that even has the NZ media questioning why they don't just turn their provincial comp fully professional and sell the tv rights direct overseas seeing as they're the attraction to viewers.

Face facts; in Australia union is run by a fat goth chick who screwed the Bulldogs and some bloke who got fired from NAB after pushing a policy to collect debts from dead people. Pretend all you want that it's going well, their crowds make Sea Eagles crowds look good, and our crowds are shit.

 

[RoosTah]

Face facts; in Australia union is run by a fat goth chick who screwed the Bulldogs and some bloke who got fired from NAB after pushing a policy to collect debts from dead people. Pretend all you want that it's going well, their crowds make Sea Eagles crowds look good, and our crowds are shit.

I’ll get back to you with the sources later, but just on this, if you think I’ve been arguing that RA is kicking arse, then you need to learn to read. I’ve said multiple times that the game here is in the crapper. The key point is that however shit Super Rugby is, it has recovered this year when compared to 2017 (I.e not comparing it to the NRL) and it’s not about to be superseded by Forrest’s geniused pacific plan that doesn’t include any actual union markets of significance.

 

[Perth Red]

I guess when you’ve got a billionaire with money to burn anything is possible. I get the sense they will bide their time with this Comp in the expectation that the super whatever’s will collapse in the not too distant future and the aru will come begging to him to create a nz/Aus/Pacific Comp. He offered $70mill to aru for jnr development if they kept force in so don’t underestimate how much cash this bloke has to throw away!

They’re being smart in making these “friendlies” accessible for fans. $10 tickets, 4K free tickets give to waru jnrs, wolfmother providing entertainment etc.

https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2018/05/04/world-series-force-fiji-sampson-prior-reax

He only needs to get a few teams to jump and the superrugby comp is in serious trouble. There are a number of nz clubs in financial strife, two SA clubs having to play in Europe plus Japanese clubs desperate to step up. If the aru doesn’t deliver for the Australian clubs over next couple of years and IF he gets some momentum behind this World Series concept I wouldn’t write him off as quickly as you have RoosTah.

 

[ReddFelon]

Here's my question Roostah; how likely are the European networks to pay as much given the quality of games is arguably just as bad if not worse in terms of competitiveness? I mean realistically if I'm BBC Sport or BT Sport or Sky, do I really want to give more money for a product that is worse than the previous tv deal? I mean their last tv deal was 2015 yeah? They were being sold a product that in that time period had victories by the two big Aussie teams, the Kiwi teams and a Saffa team. Comparatively they're going to be trying to sell competition where you can comfortably predict that the final will be contested by the Crusaders/Hurricanes and the Lions.

 

[RoosTah]

Here's my question Roostah; how likely are the European networks to pay as much given the quality of games is arguably just as bad if not worse in terms of competitiveness?

He only needs to get a few teams to jump and the superrugby comp is in serious trouble. There are a number of nz clubs in financial strife, two SA clubs having to play in Europe plus Japanese clubs desperate to step up. If the aru doesn’t deliver for the Australian clubs over next couple of years and IF he gets some momentum behind this World Series concept I wouldn’t write him off as quickly as you have RoosTah.

Both your responses kinda have similar themes, and both fail to address all the issues I've raised here previously, but briefly:

1. The European and Saffa networks will pay more for a competition than that has kiwis involved and games in their time zone than they will for the trash Forrest has put forward that has neither. Frankly his competition has about the same level of appeal to them as the AFL does.

2. Forrest doesn't need "a few teams to jump ship" - he needs an entire conference, and that conference realistically has to be South Africa from a TV perspective. That's not going to happen. Why? Because of what I posted previously:

Mate, if you can honestly see that then you simply don't understand the politics and driving forces in Rugby. There are 3 key reasons that what you imagine as possible is in reality about as likely as Adelaide becoming a Rugby League power house in the next couple years:

1. The ARU (Now RA) were desperately trying to get the NZRU to join them in a revamped Pacific focused Super comp that was minus SA. NZ told the ARU they were dreaming because they see competition with the SA teams as critical for their development.

2. The SARU provide Super Rugby with games in the European time slot, meaning that they're responsible for the lion's share of Super Rugby's TV deal funding - fun fact: the last deal was a huge improvement for Super Rugby overall, but money from Aussie broadcasters stayed stagnant, all the increase was from Europe and SA.

3. Super Rugby ratings have actually been recovering this year since the rationalisation of the structure and return to a neater 3 conference structure focused on the tradition partners. There's been speculation that the money given to CA in Aus will depress demand for the comp here, but that's not happening in SA and Europe, who are expected to pay more again.

In short, if you think the Kiwis and foundational Aussie teams are suddenly going to dump Super Rugby for this Mickey Mouse BS comp of Twigg's that involves one Aussie team, a couple PI countries, and potentially the powerhouse rugby heartlands of Singapore and Hong Kong, then your reading of what drives the business people that makes these decisions is very different to mine.

I know you blokes just f#cken hate the NRL and want to believe that this bullshit WA union circle-jerk exercise of pissing into a gale force wind is some sort of example of Union genius and League inertia, but it's not. It has the worst fundamentals of any competition I've heard of since Donald Trump tried to launch a league to rival the NFL.

 

[I Bleed Maroon]

The NRL are standing on the docks with snot dripping from their noses waving the ship goodbye.

SURPRISE.

Greenberg is seriously the most inept merkin in Australian sport.