What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

RL independence day arrives - NRL Independent Commission announced for November 1

Status
Not open for further replies.

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
They should sign a one year agreement and then work with the IC to get a 2013 -2018 agreement. The danger for clubs is that the IC could impose a min standards expectation on clubs to keep their licenses which they don;t have to now.
That would neatly fix the expansion problem. I can hardly see protesting or a breakaway comp from the clubs if the weakest one was to be dropped
 

_Johnsy

Referee
Messages
28,391
Would it be possible that the IC owns the logo etc and leases them back to the clubs to ensure maximum $$$ from property rights are obtained by the clubs. ???
 

rednblack

Juniors
Messages
275
That would neatly fix the expansion problem. I can hardly see protesting or a breakaway comp from the clubs if the weakest one was to be dropped

I agree.
I think the clubs DESERVE to own their own trademarks, colours and logos. They should also be the ones to profit from said trademarks, not the sport's governing body.
And this solves not only the expansion "problem" of today, but also ensures the strongest competition into the future. I don't see it as a bad thing by any means if clubs are required to reach minimum standards on an on-going basis.
While I never want to see another SL scenario, I don't think that is the primary consideration here for the clubs.
 

Parra

Referee
Messages
24,900
Of course the clubs should own their own IP.

It is commercially and morally wrong to suggest that the clubs and the members should hand these over. If the clubs have a chance to get control over their own property they should take it.
 

1 Eyed TEZZA

Coach
Messages
12,420
I agree.
I think the clubs DESERVE to own their own trademarks, colours and logos. They should also be the ones to profit from said trademarks, not the sport's governing body.
And this solves not only the expansion "problem" of today, but also ensures the strongest competition into the future. I don't see it as a bad thing by any means if clubs are required to reach minimum standards on an on-going basis.
While I never want to see another SL scenario, I don't think that is the primary consideration here for the clubs.

I think thats debatable. Where would clubs be without the competition? Where would the competition be without the clubs? Id be leaning towards the clubs owning their IP rights purely because I think people are fans of clubs first and the game second.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
70,176
Of course the clubs should own their own IP.

It is commercially and morally wrong to suggest that the clubs and the members should hand these over. If the clubs have a chance to get control over their own property they should take it.

Whilst I don't disagree;

1. Current arrangement allows for weaker clubs to benefit from stronger clubs thus keeping the competition as a whole stronger (in terms of merchandise sales and distribution of that income)
2. It does reduce the likelihood of a handful of clubs joining a rival competition and the likelihood of that competition being succesful
3. There are lots of examples in business and academia where if you are paid a grant to do work the payee of the grant maintains IP to the outcome/product/brand.
 

Parra

Referee
Messages
24,900
Whilst I don't disagree;

1. Current arrangement allows for weaker clubs to benefit from stronger clubs thus keeping the competition as a whole stronger (in terms of merchandise sales and distribution of that income)
2. It does reduce the likelihood of a handful of clubs joining a rival competition and the likelihood of that competition being succesful
3. There are lots of examples in business and academia where if you are paid a grant to do work the payee of the grant maintains IP to the outcome/product/brand.


Some if these clubs have had the logo for over 100 years. The commission that wants them does not exist and has done nothing at all. Any director that signs away IP rights this way would be incompetent. These people do have members rights to protect first. Not the intangible good-of-the-rulebook/game.
 
Messages
11,677
Would it be possible that the IC owns the logo etc and leases them back to the clubs to ensure maximum $$$ from property rights are obtained by the clubs. ???

Lease them back to Clubs for $1/year.

The IC stops a breakaway comp, Clubs get full monetary benefits from the IP.

No one loses.
 

Parra

Referee
Messages
24,900
All News Ltd have to do to stop another star league fiasco is sign a piece of paper. And they refuse to do it. It is a deal breaker.

The clubs have a lot more to lose than News Ltd in this comparison. They have to say no.


Why support News Ltd's refusal to guarantee no rival comp and their insistence on crippled media rights, yet require the clubs to give up their IP?
 

rednblack

Juniors
Messages
275
Whilst I don't disagree;

1. Current arrangement allows for weaker clubs to benefit from stronger clubs thus keeping the competition as a whole stronger (in terms of merchandise sales and distribution of that income)
2. It does reduce the likelihood of a handful of clubs joining a rival competition and the likelihood of that competition being succesful
3. There are lots of examples in business and academia where if you are paid a grant to do work the payee of the grant maintains IP to the outcome/product/brand.

If and when consolidation of existing clubs (primarily in Syd metro) sometime down the track, the governing body would then still own the rights to non-existent clubs' IP.

This would mean "dropped" clubs, no longer competing in the elite competition, would still be required to give their potential merch revenue to the owners of the sport (and thus, to the elite clubs). This would be like Norths or Newtown selling merchandise (which they still do) and the proceeds going to the NRL's coffers. If this is deemed acceptable, where do we stop? Do the Windsor Wolves then have to give their IP to the NRL also, since they MIGHT one day make a bid for an NRL license?

If a club is so "poor" that they rely on the proceeds of others' sales, then why should they be propped up? The sale of a club's merchandise, and their capitalization on the strength of their own brands, should be rewarded by directly going back to that club. Whilst I agree that the clubs would be nothing without the competition, why should they be required to give up the proceeds of all their hard brand-building work (in most cases, decades of work, and in some cases a century).
 

Quidgybo

Bench
Messages
3,054
This would mean "dropped" clubs, no longer competing in the elite competition, would still be required to give their potential merch revenue to the owners of the sport (and thus, to the elite clubs). This would be like Norths or Newtown selling merchandise (which they still do) and the proceeds going to the NRL's coffers. If this is deemed acceptable, where do we stop? Do the Windsor Wolves then have to give their IP to the NRL also, since they MIGHT one day make a bid for an NRL license?
This is a bit of a straw man argument. Common sense would suggest that at the time you're dropped from the NRL or otherwise leave with the NRL's blessing, you would be re-assigned the IP to take with you (with the NRL retaining some residual rights for re-use in future historical materials). Likewise handing over the IP to the NRL would only be a requirement at the time you actually get a license to enter. This isn't some ridiculously hard situation to work out where the lines should be.

Leigh.
 
Last edited:

rednblack

Juniors
Messages
275
This is a bit of a straw man argument. Common sense would suggest that at the time you're dropped from the NRL or otherwise leave with the NRL's blessing, you would be re-assigned the IP to take with you (with the NRL retaining some residual rights for re-use in future historical materials). Likewise handing over the IP to the NRL would only be a requirement at the time you actually get a license to enter. This isn't some ridiculously hard situation to work out where the lines should be.

Leigh.

Hypothetically then, what if the club itself didn't own their IP to begin with? For instance, what if an individual decided to launch a bid for a new NRL license. Let's call them, for argument's sake, the bombers. That individual invests personally into capitalizing the bid, and in turn, personally owns the IP for that bid. He receives all profits from the use of that IP, and, since he's such a philanthropist, donates those profits to the board which runs his club.

Can the NRL then dictate that the individual MUST hand over the rights to that IP? What if he sells those rights to a third party at some stage? What happens when his club is dropped, but in a similar fashion to how souths fought their way back in to the NRL, or the bears are currently attempting a launch from the CC, they lobby for re-inclusion themselves. Do they then get ALL their profits whilst they are out, which increases their wealth, only to be stripped of them again once re-admitted?

In the example of the bears, whilst North Sydney supports the Central Coast bid, they are a seperate entity entirely. So, should NSDRLC lose all their merchandise income, since they share colours and a logo? If so, would that mean they get their share of the NRL's merchandise pie, since they're contributing?

And what of any future merger? If another St George - Illawarra eventuate down the track, again for argument's sake, say between Souths and the Roosters, those two clubs would no longer exist in their own right, so would re-inherit their respective IP under your solution, correct?. They would form a new legal entity of some description, which would own the rights to the IP of the newly-formed franchise. Yet, both those clubs could continue to sell their "heritage" merchandise, but would not be obliged to share those proceeds with the NRL?

Common sense if well and good, but there is much more to this than just the current NRL climate might suggest. As an owner of intellectual property of any kind, I'd be fighting tooth and nail to maintain my right to do with it as I pleased. Sure the NRL might agree to lease the rights back to clubs for a token amount, but what if they change their mind? What if we find ourselves cashless one day in the future, with no major sponsor and a minimal income from broadcast rights? In 40 years time if this happened, the NRL ( or whatever it'll be called by then) might just say "nope, we're keeping all your IP now, 'cos we need the revenue".

Nope, the clubs have done all the legwork, they built their brands (in the most part) off the back of mountains of hard graft. They deserve the income generated by their IP, and the sport's governing body has no business DEMANDING that those rights be signed over. Clubs should all retain their own IP.
 
Last edited:

BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
15,595
The clubs should own and retain their IP, however there should be by laws in the NRL agreement with the clubs that they would be prevented by taking that IP to another competition...

I believe this is what they do in the NFL...
 

rednblack

Juniors
Messages
275
The clubs should own and retain their IP, however there should be by laws in the NRL agreement with the clubs that they would be prevented by taking that IP to another competition...

I believe this is what they do in the NFL...

I see the merit in this.

However...

If a club is removed from the premier competition, they should retain the right to play in another competition, such as Qld or NSW cups. Now hypothetically, whilst highly unlikely, especially today, what is to stop someone like a TV network or foxtel or even a new subscription or IPTV provider, from approaching the NSWRL and giving them $1bn for the rights to broadcast their NSW cup competition? Not likely, but it could happen one day down the track, and it would put any former NRL clubs in breach of contract if they participated.

There'd be no such issue if they owned their own intellectual property outright, caveat-free.
 

Brutus

Referee
Messages
26,355
I really hope the IC do not get intimidated by Gallop.

"Oh Dave, you've been here for 10 years, you know best".
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top