Round 11 vs. Tigers Discussion + Voting

[GoTheBroncs]

It will take the recovery of Jordan Kahu who is still struggling to run freely after his spat of injuries. Naturally, his condition will improve over time and I believe he'll come into the side in the coming weeks.

I reckon it's pretty silly waiting around for Kahu as he is not a natural half either...

 

[Big Pete]

Kodi isn't first grade standard and he isn't the type of player who would suit the first grade side.

The rest of our young halves either don't qualify for first grade this year (Jayden Nikorima) or are just returning from serious injury (Ash Taylor) and are still developing. The question must be asked why Duncan Paia'Aua isn't being considered given he's arguably the most qualified and would be the type of player who would compliment the first grade side and it makes me think that he may be the odd man out and may not be considered a long term option. That or like Kahu they're concerned about whether he can physically handle the rigors of first grade...the guy is a bit of a Matai if you know what I mean.

 

[Big Pete]

I reckon it's pretty silly waiting around for Kahu as he is not a natural half either...

The Broncos aren't exactly playing just for 2014.

They're waiting for a much more talented player from the nation's capital. It's funny, I seem to be having trouble remembering his name...

 

[Dazzat]

Because, in Griffin's mind, you only give a young player a go when he's got some experience. Simple really.

 

[GoTheBroncs]

The Broncos aren't exactly playing just for 2014.

They're waiting for a much more talented player from the nation's capital. It's funny, I seem to be having trouble remembering his name...

Even more reason to try someone new. Worst that can happen is that we work out a couple of guys aren't NRL standard (no worse than what we have now with Hoffman at 5/8). Best that can happen is that we have a good back-up for 2015 (like the Cowboys have with Lui this year), and we could actually make something out of 2014.

 

[Big Pete]

Too simple and wrong.

 

[GoTheBroncs]

Too simple and wrong.

 

[Big Pete]

Even more reason to try someone new. Worst that can happen is that we work out a couple of guys aren't NRL standard (no worse than what we have now with Hoffman at 5/8). Best that can happen is that we have a good back-up for 2015 (like the Cowboys have with Lui this year), and we could actually make something out of 2014.

Rugby League is a team sport, not exactly fair to expect the rest of the team to carry players who aren't physically or mentally ready to play at that level. Nor is it the best idea to cycle through these players before they're ready and basing decisions on them off of that.

Just look at Ben Hunt when he was 19. He was killing it at NYC level but he was exposed big time when he was called up to debut and didn't quite make it until the back end of 2010 really...

My earlier post was directed at Daz which was wrong since Hook has handed players their debut in the past.

 

[GoTheBroncs]

Rugby League is a team sport, not exactly fair to expect the rest of the team to carry players who aren't physically or mentally ready to play at that level. Nor is it the best idea to cycle through these players before they're ready and basing decisions on them off of that.

You might say that the Broncos are already carrying Hoffman... Maybe we should ask Barba, our wide second rowers and our centres what they think about Hoffman at 5/8?

I think our back-ups would like to be given an opportunity now as in 2015 it is going to be much harder to get a look in with Hunt/Milford in the halves.

I'm not interested too much in arguing about it. You have a valid point as we don't really have an obvious replacement.

But I can also sympathise with other posters who want someone other than Hoffman at 5/8.

 

[Big Pete]

The difference is Hoffman is a first grade standard player and can get through the bare minimum required of him and isn't a liability. I agree that the experiment is over but don't believe cycling through juniors and trying to find out which one is ready when the answer is none of them really are at this stage is right.

That's why I was so adamant about signing a player outside of the club at the start of the season because I knew the stocks just weren't were they needed to be.

 

[Kiwi]

Kiwi I have a lot of admiration for you as a poster



...but this right here doesn't belong on any Broncos board and can f**k off.

You may wish for a different coach but actively supporting your side is a scum move as far as I'm concerned.

Isn't the side I would pick but given how largely unaffected the Broncos are, I wasn't expecting too many changes.

yeah you're right, that part of the post was out of pure frustration and shouldn't have said. I know I'll listen to the game Saturday night cheering and hoping for the win and will get even more frustrated if we lose, so I do apologize for the comment and will remove it.

 

[Big Pete]

Props Kiwi and I understand completely.

Hopefully the boys turn it on this weekend.

 

[Dazzat]

Rugby League is a team sport, not exactly fair to expect the rest of the team to carry players who aren't physically or mentally ready to play at that level. Nor is it the best idea to cycle through these players before they're ready and basing decisions on them off of that.

Just look at Ben Hunt when he was 19. He was killing it at NYC level but he was exposed big time when he was called up to debut and didn't quite make it until the back end of 2010 really...

My earlier post was directed at Daz which was wrong since Hook has handed players their debut in the past.

Pete ... you are taking my view to an extreme and misrepresented my me. As I have often suggested on this forum, I believe Griffin should give players a crack at the top level strategically.

Griffin has shown no sign, whatsoever, that he has a development plan for our young players. You have mentioned Oates in the past. Wow. One player. In the same time frame, other clubs in the NRL have developed at least a half-a-dozen players.

There are two parts to developing a player at the top level. First you must actually give them a go. Secondly, and more important, is the support that player receives behind the scenes as they mature.

If the second part is in place, the first part should take care of itself.

If a player is given a go, and fails - BIG DEAL! It happens all the time, and if the support is there, the player will ONLY GET BETTER FROM THE EXPERIENCE! If the support is not there (as it appears at the Broncos) then the experience will be marked "failure" rather than "learning".

One last point. No one knows for sure how a player will "step-up-to-the-mark". If you continue to treat young players as "not ready" when they are showing promise or borderline, guess what, you will have a whole club of "not ready", young players. And that is what we have now due to the culture the coach has built.

As established by your posts - you believe there is about one player throughout all the Broncos system ready to step up to first grade. I have seen you suggest one - Lee. And this is good?

 

[Dazzat]

Sorry for rant. But here's the crux. I can remember when the club could almost field two first grade sides. Players were knocking on the door of first grade all the time.

Now the depth at the club - with all its resources - is probably amongst the shallowest in the league. No other club has just one half on the books. It didn't get like this overnight.

 

[lockyno1]

Kodi isn't first grade standard and he isn't the type of player who would suit the first grade side.

Hoffman is? I am sorry but what is the WORST that can happen if we try Kodi? Oh we lose...yeah, so what...we lose with Hoffman spudding it up at 6 anyway. You won't know if a bloke 'suits' first grade until he is given a go!

 

[Big Pete]

Pete ... you are taking my view to an extreme and misrepresented my me.

Read over what you've said. You have a habit of writing in absolutes (eg. only if, no sign etc.) and it doesn't make for constructive discussion.

Not to mention you have distorted a number of points I have made not only in the past but also in that post. Oates isn't the only player I have mentioned, he is just the worst example to hold against Hook since Hook has basically got it 100% right with him so far. Also, I have mentioned more players than Lee.

It isn't just the individual who suffers from being blooded with little thought or preparation - it's the entire team, ESPECIALLY for a spine position.

Hoffman is? I am sorry but what is the WORST that can happen if we try Kodi? Oh we lose...yeah, so what...we lose with Hoffman spudding it up at 6 anyway. You won't know if a bloke 'suits' first grade until he is given a go!

Hoffman is most certainly a first grade standard player. There is a level of skill, mental stability and athleticism required to make it in the top grade and Nikorima hasn't demonstrated any of these attributes in the lower grades where he struggles with some of the basic fundamentals of the game.

I don't believe Hoffman should be at five eighth but two wrongs don't make a right and Kodi doesn't belong there either.

 

[Dazzat]

Read over what you've said. You have a habit of writing in absolutes (eg. only if, no sign etc.) and it doesn't make for constructive discussion.

Not to mention you have distorted a number of points I have made not only in the past but also in that post. Oates isn't the only player I have mentioned, he is just the worst example to hold against Hook since Hook has basically got it 100% right with him so far. Also, I have mentioned more players than Lee.

It isn't just the individual who suffers from being blooded with little thought or preparation - it's the entire team, ESPECIALLY for a spine position.



Hoffman is most certainly a first grade standard player. There is a level of skill, mental stability and athleticism required to make it in the top grade and Nikorima hasn't demonstrated any of these attributes in the lower grades where he struggles with some of the basic fundamentals of the game.

I don't believe Hoffman should be at five eighth but two wrongs don't make a right and Kodi doesn't belong there either.

Yes, I would agree with this point. Griffin HAS given little preparation and thought to blooding new players. How can I say that? The proof is in the pudding as they say.

Brisbane would have close to the worst spine in the competition right now in my opinion - and definitely the worst when you consider depth.

Yes, the whole team is suffering NOW because of Griffin has given little thought to preparing new players. I could list multiple examples in the way Griffin has handled such players as Jarrod Wallace, Ben Hunt, Corey Norman, Jake Glanville.

As mentioned, this weekend would have been a perfect opportunity for just one player to be given an opportunity. No pressure because without the superstars a loss will be excusable.

In fact, we'll be playing a team with a spine that has combined first grade experience of around 20 games between them. What an opportunity! Yeah!

No. Not for Griffin.

 

[Big Pete]

See, you think we can afford a loss.

I don't and think we should do everything to secure a win.

Yes, Hook could possibly have his cake and eat it as well by throwing a NYC forward onto the bench but there was something to those demotions last week and not all of it was to do with form on the field...

 

[Dazzat]

What I am suggesting is creating a balance that all clubs must achieve - that of winning games and encouraging new players - and that needs a deft touch.

It means balancing the immediate with the future.

And after three years of Griffin, what we see today in terms of depth and young players coming through is evidence that he is more inclined to be focused on the immediate - which is understandable when he is coaching for his future and not for the future of players (which I believe is the case).

Yes, there have been injuries. Understand. But there have also been lots of decisions based on the short-term, and very few with an eye on the future.

Any organisation that functions like this will sooner or later run into problems.

 

[Big Pete]

Generally speaking, I don't disagree with what you're suggesting Daz, I'm a big believer in balance and agree that it's something Griffin has struggled to achieve in his tenure.

The issue I have is that fans tend to be too adventurous. Generally speaking, when a side loses fans think that the issues can simply be addressed by a few team selections and don't consider all the ramifications of those changes. More often than not, what I see is a bunch of fringe graders spoken up with little rhyme or reason and it's largely based on hearsay evidence or because they spotted them on the Broncos profile page and thought they couldn't do any worse.

But in my view, they can.

I actually don't think the Broncos are playing that poorly as individuals and the issues within the team are technical issues such as their defensive issues. Their first contact can be pretty soft, line-speed at times non-existent and they have weaknesses out-wide too. For me, that's a definite slight against the coach, but not something that can be fixed by promoting second tier players. That's a coaching issue and a major black mark against Griffin and most certainly Kearney.

Be that as it may, what kind of conversations can we really have on here? Is it really worth repeating the same points over and over again ad-nausea? Mmm...

I think it's worth keeping an eye on the NYC & ISC to watch the progress of these exciting young players as well as keep your eyes glued on the newspaper. There's a lot of moving parts heading into 2015, an exciting times for the Broncos and I believe we're beginning to dig ourselves out of the hole post-Lockyer created.

I don't think that last point can be under-estimated. It's difficult to replace a champion, especially when the heir apparent takes his sherrin and goes down to the Coast and you've got to do it from scratch.