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Round 2 v Bulldogs

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
What are Mansours many flaws? He had issues with his defensive reads and rushing in and his hands both of which have improved, his defence has been a strength of his so far this year he took the opposition winger or centre over the sideline 3 times on sunday. He isn't strong in the air but he certainly holds his own and doesn't get out jumped defensively, its not a weakness of his. In his current form his strengths more then make up for his weaknesses by a long way. He is a great finisher now and with the metres and tackle busts he provides he impacts the game more then any winger besides Semi. Every player in this game has some flaws, Josh's strengths more than cover his though.
 
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betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
I think Hiku has been our best back over the first 5 rounds. Followed closely by Mansour.

I agree with Billy, stats can be tailored to suit any argument.

Blake had one acceptable performance in twenty-two outings and zero outstanding games :)

Those stats haven't been tailored at all it is the raw data. Stats can be tailored but Mx hasn't cherry picked anything, its a smallish sample size but it is the whole season so far you cant just write them off because you don't like what they show, that is ridiculous.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,334
Yep look at the attacking stats and Hiku has a great strike rate for tries. Solid ball carries and that's it. But really our halves haven't gotten our centres clean ball.

Moylan will fix that. Tmm when Soward isn't pushing him out the way should also create space for them. It's pretty funny that Soward pretends to be a team player and will step aside if it helps TMM and the club. Yet he seems to actively go out of his way to minimize the opportunities the kid gets.

Stop cutting him out and Soward onto TMM onto Moylan will open up space for our centres and wingers. A long cutout ball to a marked player will not. Its an intercept waiting to happen.

I think Soward hates that TMM got the glory and wraps aftee that Broncos game and wants to be the one coming up with those plays.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
Hiku is doing well he just needs to stick his tackles because he was very poor defensively on sunday. Our centres haven't had much chance to show what they can do but Hiku has still bagged four tries which is pretty good imo.
 

Exsilium

Coach
Messages
10,348
Those stats haven't been tailored at all it is the raw data. Stats can be tailored but Mx hasn't cherry picked anything, its a smallish sample size but it is the whole season so far you cant just write them off because you don't like what they show, that is ridiculous.

Were you meant to quote billy?I was just highlighting that arguing a point with sample data can suit a particular argument over another. As for my Blake comment I was being cheeky but shit, now that I think about it has he had any stand out games?

The only way this is ever going to be resolved is if Blake becomes a superstar, Hiku continues to be shit and our juniors set the world on fire.

Here's hoping.
 

Pomoz

Bench
Messages
2,994
It wouldn't surprise me if Moylan ends up at 5/8th, DZW at fullback, Hiku on the wing and Blake and Whare in the centres. For this to happen we need Whare fit, Moylan properly fit and in his groove (even though half fit he is still pretty damn good) and DZW over his injuries. DZW is getting better each week and was running hard again. I would love to see him running off short balls from Moylan and TMM, I think he would bust the line repeatedly with his powerful runs.

Just on Blake, I think people forget he is still a young kid who has played less than 1 season of first grade. His debut year was in a misfiring team, out of position and recovering from a serious injury. Some of the hate he gets on this forum is completely unwarranted. He is going great for his second season. Sure, he drops the ball sometimes but he is in good company (Mansour, DZW I'm looking at you). He is starting to show some real starch in defence. He now needs to come looking for the ball more and show people what his running game can be. Moylan in the team will be a big help to him, he will see the ball more.
 

TheFrog

Coach
Messages
14,300
Sounds like you want to drop Soward. While I think this is clearly his last year in the NRL, his kicking game is critical to our team at the present time. And without him, we would not have won at the weekend.

The Moylan to half move can wait until next year or at least much later this season.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,334
Blake has disappointed in attack after the form he had in the 9s and trials this year. He was our best player through both, now he has gone back into his shell. But he has fixed his biggest issue from last year. He hasn't been making a heap of mistakes and trying miraculous offloads in every run.

He's also doing much better defensively than anyone would have expected. But he's a long way from the player he is capable of being. Largely due to Soward wanting to overplay his hand now. That is holding our entire 1-6 back IMO.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
Were you meant to quote billy?I was just highlighting that arguing a point with sample data can suit a particular argument over another. As for my Blake comment I was being cheeky but shit, now that I think about it has he had any stand out games?

The only way this is ever going to be resolved is if Blake becomes a superstar, Hiku continues to be shit and our juniors set the world on fire.

Here's hoping.

I wasn't really getting into the Blake/Hiku thing. I was saying that just because stats can be manipulated or tailored to suit an argument doesn't mean they always are. They don't tell the whole story but they certainly shouldn't just be ignored.

MX hasn't cherry picked stats from a certain time frame as was claimed he has provided all major statistical categories for this season, its a fair indication of how Mansour is going this year.
 
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betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
Anyway despite his supposed 'many flaws' Mansour is probably the form winger in the comp over the opening 5 rounds. Been very strong both defensively and offensively. He is an elite winger for sure.
 

Exsilium

Coach
Messages
10,348
Did anyone watch the final word before Sunday's game?!

It basically highlights the coaches thoughts on Blake. That being that he is getting better week to week and was still "learning the game". He seems happy with his progress and mentioned that we just have to live with his errors. Fair points but he also didn't mince words on ET.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Did anyone watch the final word before Sunday's game?!

It basically highlights the coaches thoughts on Blake. That being that he is getting better week to week and was still "learning the game". He seems happy with his progress and mentioned that we just have to live with his errors. Fair points but he also didn't mince words on ET.

ET has no place in our top 17 he's best off leaving early. All our young players will only get better from here.
 

Pomoz

Bench
Messages
2,994
Sounds like you want to drop Soward. While I think this is clearly his last year in the NRL, his kicking game is critical to our team at the present time. And without him, we would not have won at the weekend.

The Moylan to half move can wait until next year or at least much later this season.
He is not playing well at the moment. The unknown factor is whether TMM has a good kicking game. I guess, also whether Moylan can develop a kicking game. Can't Cartwright kick?

I guess I'm saying Soward's kicking is good, but are there alternatives?
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
He is not playing well at the moment. The unknown factor is whether TMM has a good kicking game. I guess, also whether Moylan can develop a kicking game. Can't Cartwright kick?

I guess I'm saying Soward's kicking is good, but are there alternatives?

The question is can with live with just a kicking game in the 7 or do we need more?
 

Pomoz

Bench
Messages
2,994
It is always better to have more than one option. Teams can't close you down on tackle 5 if they don't know which side the ball is going. It's why Soward gets bashed a lot. Teams know it will be him.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
It is always better to have more than one option. Teams can't close you down on tackle 5 if they don't know which side the ball is going. It's why Soward gets bashed a lot. Teams know it will be him.

Sowie gets bashed because he only kicks. A dummy and go or something would get the defence hanging off him again
 

kyussian

Juniors
Messages
33
It wouldn't surprise me if Moylan ends up at 5/8th, DZW at fullback, Hiku on the wing and Blake and Whare in the centres.

I dont mind this setup at all.

Watched the replay & made these observations:
* Moylan played & defended in the front line at different times of the game - unsure if it was due to a lack of match fitness & he couldn't get back to fullback or if he was trying to get a better feel of being there - hoping it's the latter. Just having him out there brought a calmness & composure that we've been missing all year. I'm hoping as he works through the rustiness the team will also grow around him - we're looking so much more complete with him there & confident we'll only get better
* re Soward, i dont get the shallow penalty kicks into touch from within our 20 - gaining only 10m at times - why dont you at least get closer to halfway? also with the disallowed try, my understanding is that if he follows through with his bomb (instead of admiring it) he at least runs others onside & that try isnt disallowed - i know these gripes are more annoyances than anything but these 1%'ers can pile up & contribute to winning or losing games
* Wallace has been a revelation at 9 - he just has to pay more attention approaching DH instead of looking at the next receiver - has been caught out a couple of times already missing the PTB or offloads
* Hiku needs to wash the soap off his hands before getting on the field - he seems to be grabbing & slipping, although he did show he has the ability to put on a good shot as seen in the dragons game - i know this was one of his weaknesses at Manly but hoping he'll recognise this & work towards improving it just like Mansour & Blake have
* Latu looks very good in attack - he'll only get better as he gets used to being in grade - his passing looks smooth & he'll definitely be drawing attention from opposition coaches which can only be a good thing for our attacking edges as it spreads doubt across the defence - he deserves more credit for both Cartwright's (1st) & Mansour's tries
* you can see that Blake has the attributes to be something special - i too just want to see him in space or at the very least one on one - with his fend & offload ability he can really attract defenders & create space for others around him - now that he's holding his own defensively & getting used to the demands of playing centre, i dont think we're too far away from seeing his best. He too deserves mighty credit for his leap, catch & offload for our try on the buzzer! hope that contribution gives him more confidence to know that he's an integral part of this team.
* JFH is looking better with each game - i would also persist with him - he brings more menace & aggression which we need - looking forward to see where his game goes - it's been some time since we've had an aggressive type forward (my memory is pretty bad so happy to be corrected if i've missed anyone since MG!)
* errors just seem to be a part of our game - if Hook can work towards introducing more discipline (without compromising our off the cuff style too much) we'll win more games than we lose! i too agree we're nowhere close to reaching our potential - effort & fitness seem to be keeping us in games but we really do have to stop these last minute finishes - such an emotional roller-coaster!
 

Pomoz

Bench
Messages
2,994
I dont mind this setup at all.

* re Soward, i dont get the shallow penalty kicks into touch from within our 20 - gaining only 10m at times - why dont you at least get closer to halfway? also with the disallowed try, my understanding is that if he follows through with his bomb (instead of admiring it) he at least runs others onside & that try isnt disallowed - i know these gripes are more annoyances than anything but these 1%'ers can pile up & contribute to winning or losing games
* Latu looks very good in attack - he'll only get better as he gets used to being in grade - his passing looks smooth & he'll definitely be drawing attention from opposition coaches which can only be a good thing for our attacking edges as it spreads doubt across the defence - he deserves more credit for both Cartwright's (1st) & Mansour's tries
* JFH is looking better with each game - i would also persist with him - he brings more menace & aggression which we need - looking forward to see where his game goes - it's been some time since we've had an aggressive type forward (my memory is pretty bad so happy to be corrected if i've missed anyone since MG!)
Re Soward - I noticed the shallow kicks and the laziness of not following his kicks up too. He is definitely down on his game at the moment. He could help himself a lot by letting TMM have more of the ball and giving himself a mental breather. He looks like he needs too.

JFH - Well Travis Burns was as mean as MG but unfortunately, was only a hobbit in size. God was smart enough not to put his aggression in a body like RCG's or he would have been maiming people every week. JFH looks to have a bit of pace to him and that really helps him hit hard.

Latu really has soft hands doesn't he? A great player to bring on after Sam and RCG have bashed it up the middle and softened them up (although I'm sure Chris D will disagree). He brings a nice balance to the team.
 

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