Round 20 vs Lewis & Friends

[billypilgrimnz]

Manu dropped and Docker is kept? What the hell does Cleary have against blokes with a bit of size? Yeo, Cartright and Docker all on at once would leave us to get absolutely slaughtered.

Sharks are going to love playing against that forward pack.

I don't know why Docker keeps getting picked. It's weird. At least Taylor is lock, and there's a chance Docker be left off the bench.

 

[Big Mick]

I'm surprised that Cleary had the stones to basically name Manu outside the 17 along with keeping DWZ/Naiqama over Simmons because Mansour may be ready by game time.

But most surprising is the backrow. I like it. Hope that is what runs out.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

Agree 100%.

.... but according to a few on here, no matter how good you are at everything else, if you don't run 100m in 11 seconds, you're a reserve grader winger at best.

And that's why we remain a stodgy side in the main; other successful teams have zero problems putting in young guys on the wing, yet here we are with fans scared to be missing David Simmons.

 

[Big Mick]

Yeah Kev has looked good, is Simmons definitely due back?

Anyway good to see Wallace back, will be interesting to see how the backrow and bench look come kick off..

Simmons been named in NSW Cup

1. Kieran MOSS, 2. Eto NABULI, 3. Waqa BLAKE, 4. Wes NAIQAMA, 5. David SIMMONS, 6. Will SMITH, 7. Tom HUMBLE, 8. Sam ANDERSON 9. Kevin KINGSTON, 10. Tim GRANT, 11. Ben MURDOCH-MASILA, 12. Matt ROBINSON, 13. Ryan SIMPKINS

INTERCHANGE: 14. Reagan CAMPBELL-GILLARD, 15. Luke CAPEWELL, 16. Vaipuna TIA-KILIFI, 17. Nathan SMITH, 22. Anthony CHERRINGTON

 

[mxlegend99]

Are Yeo and Cartwright that small? Manu isn't huge himself, he's just overweight.

Could we see Idris and Yeo swapping positions? Not that there is a huge difference between each, but maybe this will give Idris a bit more freedom.

Sika Manu - 110kg
Sam McKendry - 110kh
Jeremy Latimore - 109kg
Brent Kite - 105kg
Bryce Cartwright - 106kg (wow, thought he looked around 100kg)
Nigel Plum - 104kg
Elijah Taylor - 102kg
Isaah Yeo - 100kg
Lewis Brown - 98kg
Tyrone Peachey - 95kg
Adam Docker - 91kg

Backs that have more weight to throw around then Docker:
Jamal Idris - 120kg
Dean Whare - 96kg
Josh Mansour - 96kg
Jamie Soward - 93kg
Kevin Naiqama - 93kg
David Simmons - 93kg
Dallin Watene-Zelezniak - 92kg


The only players in our side that are lighter then Adam Docker are Matt Moylan at 90kg, Peter Wallace at 83kg and James Segeyaro at 84kg.

We do have more size in Yeo then Cartwright then I would have guessed by looking at them. But Docker is simply too small for a forward pack that lacks size in the second row as it is. When you have a second rower that is lighter then most of your backline and is about as effective as you would expect a bloke of his size to be, you don't drop your only monster second rower.

Docker needs to add some size and change his technique. Going for big hits in every tackle is just not effective and while it looks great when he stops a 20kg heavier player in his tracks, it's not so great when he bounces off a tackle or misses altogether and allows an offload.

 

[Doomednow]

I do love seeing Docker snap dudes though.

Just sayin'

 

[Big Mick]

The backrow is fine for size.

Your weight chart just emphasizes why I want to see Idris in 2nd row sooner rather than later

 

[umina panther]

Agree 100%.

.... but according to a few on here, no matter how good you are at everything else, if you don't run 100m in 11 seconds, you're a reserve grader winger at best.

The reason people want players other then Limmo on the wing is. DWZ, Blake and both the Jennings need experience. Can't have a back line of full of the younger guys next year where none of them have any experience.

I'm a Simmons fan but his time is over unless it's finals time

 

[billypilgrimnz]

The backrow is fine for size.

Your weight chart just emphasizes why I want to see Idris in 2nd row sooner rather than later

That plus I don't think he is a very good centre. Idris-Cartwright-Taylor, with Blake or Peachey or Naiqama in the centres.

 

[chrisD]

Well Cleary is trying something which is good. Not really sure his mindset here, I definitely don't see front rowers like he does, Plum would be the one I'd be dropping not promoting. Happy with Taylor starting in the middle, very happy with that. Happy Cleary is not set on the team yet and is trying things even if I don't get where he's coming from.

Hope Bryce plays left where Peachey mostly did. Right side is the Moylan Whare backline side and doesn't need Bryce overplaying things.

Smith back into the halves even with Capewell fit, interesting. 20s side looks so pedestrian without Harowira and Smith, it's a very average line up.

 

[franklin2323]

Mx. That's actually a decent game for him. He gained 8m v Warriors he should drop off & learn some line running etc. Hopefully this is the start of Manu off the bench as a prop.

As for Simmons. 8 weeks is too long to be out to just walk into the side. The games we have lost in that time certainly weren't due to our wingers nor should you lose games due to them.

Those conditions were terrible last week yet all were good under the high balls.

 

[Karnivayne]

And that's why we remain a stodgy side in the main; other successful teams have zero problems putting in young guys on the wing, yet here we are with fans scared to be missing David Simmons.

I have been happy with the young guys getting time on the wing but Kev is suspect in defense at times and needs to get that sorted, probably needs experience to get that sorted so bit of a catch 22, Simmons is more consistent so if it was crunch time and a pivotal match and Simmons was fit, yes i would prefer Simmons.

 

[maple_69]

Adam Docker is lighter than Jamie Soward....
Regardless of his size, if he is contributing more than a bigger guy like Manu or BMM or Robinson I'm fine with him in the team. Fact is he hasn't for a long time now. Probably since City Country and his string of concussions. Nor has Manu really.

 

[maple_69]

I have been happy with the young guys getting time on the wing but Kev is suspect in defense at times and needs to get that sorted, probably needs experience to get that sorted so bit of a catch 22, Simmons is more consistent so if it was crunch time and a pivotal match and Simmons was fit, yes i would prefer Simmons.

Kevin did bloody well for Newcastle in their finals run last year. I'd back both of them to handle the pressure.

 

[Pomoz]

So what is it that keeps Docker in the team? Is it making the least metres of any forward in our team? Having the worst tackle rate of any player in our team? His zero tackle breaks, zero offloads and just being pretty much ineffective in every single area.

He CAN hit hard. But it doesn't work out most of the time. He misses more tackles then most our forwards, and some of his hit attempts are also ineffective. Yet he keeps his spot in the team ahead of Manu who was more effective in metres gained, tackles (tackles made vs missed), offloads, tackle breaks and most importantly he has size which our pack is sorely lacking.

MX, you are right this week, but Manu has been awful for most of the season and in my opinion a lot worse than Docker. You can't pick one week of stats and then use that as the basis to drop him. Manu has been awful nearly every week.

 

[Pomoz]

I'm surprised that Cleary had the stones to basically name Manu outside the 17 along with keeping DWZ/Naiqama over Simmons because Mansour may be ready by game time.

But most surprising is the backrow. I like it. Hope that is what runs out.

Love him or hate him, I am amazed that anybody would question Cleary's stones. He has dropped superstars and club favourites. Kingston is in reggies (he would never do that, according to many on here).

I don't agree with him all the time. If it was up to me, Manu would have gone weeks ago, Moylan would have played 5/8th and DZW at fullback, Cartwright in the back row for Manu. But what the hell do I know? In the end its results that count, the details along the way are just noise, although it makes for interesting discussion.

 

[franklin2323]

Manu has the fact he can play anywhere in the pack as an advantage over Docker. IMO McKendry's been the worst forward over the season. Docker has no attack everyone knows that McKendry does just not using it. BMM is a better option just needs to stop the injuries

 

[betcats]

Love him or hate him, I am amazed that anybody would question Cleary's stones. He has dropped superstars and club favourites. Kingston is in reggies (he would never do that, according to many on here).

I don't agree with him all the time. If it was up to me, Manu would have gone weeks ago, Moylan would have played 5/8th and DZW at fullback, Cartwright in the back row for Manu. But what the hell do I know? In the end its results that count, the details along the way are just noise, although it makes for interesting discussion.

He would never pick U20's players either! Cleary does things his way thats for sure. Its good I think, we have a doctor running the asylum rather then the inmates like before.

 

[age.s]

I'm like Simmons but even if he's the better option than Naiqama, NSW cup is the better place for him to work out the cobwebs. Let's see how he comes back from injury before even thinking about kicking a young guy who's been performing pretty well.

 

[Pomoz]

He would never pick U20's players either! Cleary does things his way thats for sure. Its good I think, we have a doctor running the asylum rather then the inmates like before.

Haha. You are right there. It is no surprise that ME left the Warriors and their discipline improves. I think ME was a touchy feely, empowering, "everybody has a say" type of coach. That style can be nice to work with and works well in certain situations, but running a team of blokes in their early twenties is probably not one of them.

If Cleary fails, it won't be because he lacks stones, it will because he made too many bad decisions. So far, he makes more good ones than bad ones.