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Round 23 - Panthers vs Rabbitohs: Friday 20th August 8:05pm @Suncorp Stadium

Stubby

Juniors
Messages
63
Nicholls doesn't take any part until after the ball is lost so I daresay you're correct. I expect Annesley will have something to say on this one so tune in Monday for official clarification.
Agreed no good beating ourselves up about the loss but the club must now make representations to the league about perceived refereeing bias and that he should not be allowed to control a Penrith game again
 

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
16,090
Nicholls doesn't take any part until after the ball is lost so I daresay you're correct. I expect Annesley will have something to say on this one so tune in Monday for official clarification.
He cant take part until the next play the ball. It's a shitty one to be on the wrong end of though.
 

Rabbits20

Immortal
Messages
40,244
Nicholls doesn't take any part until after the ball is lost so I daresay you're correct. I expect Annesley will have something to say on this one so tune in Monday for official clarification.
2GB are just saying what a ridiculous call it was and that Souths should’ve been on the attack 20 metres out just like the Cook play. Anytime we actually looked like having a chance to attack your line Atkins took it away from us.
 

Rabbits20

Immortal
Messages
40,244
Agreed no good beating ourselves up about the loss but the club must now make representations to the league about perceived refereeing bias and that he should not be allowed to control a Penrith game again
Agree fully. Whenever he refs a Penrith the game they win the penalties and infringements easily.

I hope Solly complains so we do not get him in finals week 1 as if we do there is no point watching.
 

hermidale1

Juniors
Messages
353
Some points I picked up watching the 2nd half.

We’ve certainly been screwed.

Early 2nd half Burton takes Sauce high a metre from the line. No penalty

Next tackle Cody grubbers and host is poleaxed by a Cleary escort.....again no penalty. We had them in the rack

not long after, Cook legitimately gets ball when there’s no dummy half. Capewell moved off the mark. Wrongly penalised

Panthers Forward pass from dummy half in the play where sauce gets penalised for escort which had no effect on the play unlike the Cleary one on us moments earlier....why?

somehow the ref Plucked a high tackle penalty against walker out of his arse when it wasn’t

Questionable penalty against Tom to level the scores. He draped the armver the shoulder. Many others in the game similar not penalised

Luai offside when forcing goal line restart

60% possession to them at the 20 minute mark through no fault of our. We’ve been very good defensively

Downtown penalty with 18 to go was the bunker imposing itself for no reason. When was the last time we saw that penalty given?

Sauce drops the bomb with 16 to go. ouch. He had actually been good until then

14 minutes remaining leota clearly runs a shepherd leading to the try. Often theses are disallowed

12 to go. Luai offside then chases and drops knees into sauces head. Should have been Our penalty

9 to go, walker smashed high by offside Cleary. Restart instead of penalty we should have been down in their 20m

Field goal. Yeo & Crichton downtown blockers but that’s ok?
All your points are spot on. Another thing that stood out was every time Panthers went to kick, Yeo was up with the play the ball, deliberately obstructing the the defender trying to put pressure on Cleary. Yes you can run a block, but he was changing his direction like an escort every time. They are coached to do this.
Ok, a couple of the penalties against South’s were probably 50/50 and others just outright ridiculous. Nothing anyone can do about it.
But it was the flip side where he did nothing about penalising Penrith where there were definite infringements.
A very bias referee only watching one side, not 2.
Another prime example of referees deciding the fate of the game.
 

The_Frog

First Grade
Messages
6,390
Agree fully. Whenever he refs a Penrith the game they win the penalties and infringements easily.
You should be thankful it was only an exhibition match with no premiership bearing whatsoever. By the way, your coach isn't blaming the refs, although he's bemused by the downtown ruling. He fully acknowledges his side's poor discipline. And I'm sure he also realises that Souths have only lost the penalties once in the previous 10 games, all of which they won comfortably. So he has a problem to fix, discipline under pressure, and he's got 3 weeks to do it. There's also the slight problem of being completely unable to make ground in possession against an efficient defence as the match went on, which I suspect is the biggest problem he faces.
 

callmack1

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
10,050
After watching the replay, here's my full report,

Not going to go into anymore of the bullshit reffing as it's been fully covered by other posters, this is purely player performance reviews.

Mitchell: A poor game from Trell over all. very poor in fact. Started really well, looked dominant in fact and his try was brilliant as he was in the perfect position at the perfect time to take the pass and score. He also looked pretty dangerous out the back of shape. However, the next 50 minutes were almost the worst he's played all year. Apart from a few good runs and kick returns, he barely got involved. He got lazy. Poor positioning for Cleary's kicks too and while he didn't actually drop any, his positioning and communication with Sauce didn't help. I love Latrell, he's one of my favs but that was simply not good enough last night. We need more from our star Fullback in a big game like that.

Johnston: Not a bad return. Didn't get many opportunities because of the lopsided possession but he still had a decent game. Was pretty safe under kicks and his postioning was really good, covered basically everything that came his way. Some good runs and kick returns and he made plenty of meters off the back of our good shifts when he found a bit of space. Defensively, he was pretty good too as he constantly came in to shut plays down. I know there was those two tries off kicks scored down there but they were pretty unlucky, AJ did his job on both.

Gagai: Solid without being spectacular. Had a really good start to the game along with the rest of the side as he looked really imposing and fired up early. His try was awesome, a great show of strength to wrestle and get that ball down. The rest of the game though was a grind for him, barely got a genuine opportunity and his impact was mainly limited to tough runs out of our end. Credit where credit is due though, Gags was brilliant in this area. Got through plenty of the shit work and made some good carries. Is never afraid to get down and dirty and he just keeps trying. 173 meters when you're constantly coming out of your own end is a huge effort!! Happy with his defence too.

Graham: Kind of similar to Gags actually in that he started really strongly but then barely got an opportunity because of the way the game was reffed. Loved his tough carries all game, quality runs. I know we conceded one try down that right edge (all be it from an obstruction that was not picked up) and Campbell maybe didn't need to come in there but apart from that, I thought he was superb defensively. Penrith threw a lot at us down that side but he chopped down everything that came his way. A lot of centres haven't been able to do that against Burton.

Mansour: A very mixed night. Sadly for Sauce, I think the bad outweighed the good. His running game was great, really strong carries, 15 for 132 meters, and he was potentially robbed of a try when he was called off (unfairly in my opinion) in that second half. Up until about the 50th minute, he was very safe and confident under the high ball too but then the panthers seemed to get in his head and it all came undone for him. The two he let bounce we inexcuseable, that shouldn't happen in first grade, you've gotta at least try. The second one he left especially annoyed me. He also dropped another one which is not good enough. All three of those moments cost us dearly. I don't think we'll be seeing him in first grade next week.

Walker: A pretty poor showing overall. Great play to open the game, that pass for Gagai's try was sublime for yet another try assist this year but after that he was extremely quiet. I completely agree with the arguement that because of the way the game was reffed, our forwards weren't getting much go forward so Cody couldn't do much, I completely agree with that so we can't be too harsh on him. However, Cody was clearly frustrated and let it get to him. Thus, grubby stuff like the high tackle and the facial came out. That's not good enough from a senior player. Also, as a senior playmaker and the star that he is, it's partially up to him to try and spark something to turn the tide but he was unable to do that. Been out best player this year and I'm sure he'll be better next time.

Reynolds: Basically a copy and paste from my comments about Walker. I'd say the same for Reyno. I will say though, he was controlling things beautifully until Grant Atkins decided to do his stuff. That 40/20 was just amazing!! Perhaps the best I've ever seen, millimeter perfect! Then backed it up with that great face ball to Keaon to help create out second try. Sadly, that's kind of where Reyno's highlights ended.

Nicholls: Went okay. Had a great start to the match as did the rest of the forwards but barely made an impact for the next 50 minutes. Only 8 runs for 48 meters which is pretty disappointing.

Cook: I thought Cookie was good, one of our best actually. From the opening whistle, you could see him testing Penrith. he was testing the markers and keeping them on their toes. Had a great run where he went through and made a line break, that was brilliant work from him! Didn't really get an opportunity for the rest of the match but his service from dummy half was decent and he was just a machine in defence, made 58 tackles which is a massive, massive effort!

Tatola: The ref didn't help but he struggled to make an impact in this one so I don't have too much to say. he wasn't bad, just not his normal impact. He gave his all and made 93 meters which isn't great but it's still better than some of the other guys I guess.

Koloamatangi: Well down on his usual form. Only 7 runs for 65 meters which is just crazy bad for Keaon. Made an error too. He was good in defence though, made a really good try saver on Leota in that second half.

Arrow: Jai wasn't bad. Went about his work with little fuss but still struggled to really make a dent. Was probably one of the better forwards with 89 meters though.

Murray: Our best player last night for sure! In a game where our pack wasn't allowed to be in the game and make meters, he tried his absolute hardest. Some of his runs early on were so sharp, great meters. Defence was the strongest part of the game though. 55 tackles made for him which is momumental in one game, cleaned up so much for us. Could have had the play of the game with that strip on Crichton in the second half but the Bunker decided they couldn't give Souths a chance to win and he was robbed. Massive effort from Cam though.

Marshall: No impact what so ever when he came on sadly, we didn't get his role right. I'm not really sure what his role is in the team going forward in the big games.

Host: Nothing to say here really either, 3 runs for 36 meters is shocking!

Burgess: Terrible, just a terrible game from Tom. he topped the meters in the forwards, yes, but he wasn't very good. His dropped ball in that first half when we were on the attack changed everything. While I don't blame him for the result, I do wonder what would have happened if he holds that ball.

Sele: Also struggled to make an impact with the ball but was awesome on defence, came up with some good shots and driving tackles. It's a shame he made a bad read on Kroisau right at the end and let him through but I put that down to fatigue.

Now, those comments about our forwards kind of need to be taken with a grain of salt. They all struggled but I don't think that's because we were poor or because Penrith were so superior. It is because of the way the game was reffed. The pack was on fire to start, way on top, but then Atkins decided to get the whistle out and we were never in it from there. Of course you're not going to go forward when you're only allowed eight minutes of possession in the second half. Any pack in the NRL would get swamped if their opposition were being given leg ups like Penrith last night.

I'm actually pretty proud of the boys for that one. Frustrated and disappointed with the result but proud of their efforts. If anything, this fires me up even more. I want to play Penrith again tomorrow!! We'll see what happens then.
 

handyman2190

Bench
Messages
3,003
The call was not even technically correct at all. The downtown rule places someone out of play if they are in front of the play the ball. Nicholls was not in front of the play the ball. Both Nicholls and Murray were in front of the kicker and stayed beyond 10 metres of kick receiver. Both back onside when Naden plays at the ball at the ball with his foot. Murray makes the legal tackle with legal one on one strip, and Nicholls behind Murray legally picks the ball up.
The ref was correctly going to let play continue until overruled by an incorrect bunker call. If we must have a bunker, at least put people in there that know the rules.
This is an excellent post,you should get the job u obviously know the rules, who was in the bunker last night? Were,how, do we complain? We got pasted by that ref, they were offside jumping quikely we didnt get 1 repeat 6 again, we played the perfect team, we were given no chance and no penaltys, and if i ever see lui in the street ill whipe that lear off his face,what a arrogant dog
 

handyman2190

Bench
Messages
3,003
You should be thankful it was only an exhibition match with no premiership bearing whatsoever. By the way, your coach isn't blaming the refs, although he's bemused by the downtown ruling. He fully acknowledges his side's poor discipline. And I'm sure he also realises that Souths have only lost the penalties once in the previous 10 games, all of which they won comfortably. So he has a problem to fix, discipline under pressure, and he's got 3 weeks to do it. There's also the slight problem of being completely unable to make ground in possession against an efficient defence as the match went on, which I suspect is the biggest problem he faces.
The biggest problem is finding a ref that knows the rules and polices them fairly, stopping the offside play, bennet knows its no use opening his mouth,nothing can be changed anyway.
 

Botany Rabbit

Juniors
Messages
39
Too much blaming shit going on. Focus needs to be on the things that the boys can control.

Was the reffing a bit dubious? Perhaps. But games aren't won or lost by the ref.

The back 3 need to sort their shit out. It was obvious Latrell was losing confidence in Mansour under the high ball. Ill-discipline and mistakes from middles hurt too.

I don't mind the loss. It won't hurt psychologically as it's clear the boys can match it with Penrith. Cleary once again is the stand out when it mattered. Last thing I wanted was to go into the finals on a 12 or 13-game winning run - most of them against average teams - and thinking that their shit doesn't stink.

Our fellas have an opportunity to learn from that and fix up the discipline and errors that always seems to hurt South Sydney teams at this time of year.
I disagree that in today’s game, they are won and lost, because of momentum.
we had all the momentum and then there was a forward pass missed followed by a dubious crusher. Now facing 2 weeks ffs
Cook got the ball fair and square at marker only to be penalised.
Mansour was a mile on side only to be called offside so he took no part. In hindsight better just to steam through and score. Reynolds would have challenged and then possibly 16-0

the penalty count was 13-2 against as Bennett said. When asked the question. Is there anything you can do to fix the discipline?“You could tell he was pissed” he came back with no not really, we are 1 in least penalties conceded, so there is nothing to fix up.

I wish he had a lash and threw 10k at a scathing rant. We just lay down and take it. It’s not really good enough. Other teams winge then treated more with more leniency in the following weeks.

we need to be dirty like the big 2

funny how the knees to Mansour a head by Luai are let go. Weeks ago when the parra boy had his lung punctured there was a crack down. Obviously not on the darling teams
 

Jim Rockford

Bench
Messages
3,082
They needed Atkins to get past us last night. As long as we get any other ref next time, I saw enough to suggest we'll do them next time. Then it will be a case of "he who smugs last smugs loudest"
 

GongPanther

Referee
Messages
26,557
Pretty much. Wayne will be drilling them hard to stay composed, the question is if Cody and Latrell have it in them. I'd also be surprised if Wayne plays Sauce against us again. His emotions got the better of him last night and it rubbed off on a few others.
We will have the best prop in the game JFH and the game's best winger To'o back. And after a few more weeks of running the Panthers engine back into purrfection, the result in week 1 of the finals is going to be a worse one for the Rabbits.
 

GongPanther

Referee
Messages
26,557
From NRL Laws and Interpretations 2018:

Downtown Chasers
A player is considered downtown when:
A player who is in front of the kicker in general play who intentionally advances beyond the point
of the previous play the ball before the ball has gone past him.


So its not being in front of the play the ball when the ball is played, it is being in front of the point where the ball is played when the ball is kicked and passes the player, while also being in front of the kicker.
It was plain as day when the commentary ran through the explanation. The Souths player in question was in front of the marker and also the bloke who kicked it.
 

GongPanther

Referee
Messages
26,557
They needed Atkins to get past us last night. As long as we get any other ref next time, I saw enough to suggest we'll do them next time. Then it will be a case of "he who smugs last smugs loudest"
Referee Ashley Klein isn't exactly on our Christmas card list. And yes, there is a connection between him and Penrith. His dad, Johnny Klein played halfback in the 1970s. So as you can see, that somewhat blows the local ref theory out of the water.
 

murraymob

First Grade
Messages
9,351
The rule is likely breached every single game, every single week. It's the crackdown of the round. I'll even guarantee it isn't called if Crichton doesn't drop the ball.

There was a crackdown on this a decade or so ago. It seems as though it's back on the ref's radar.
The difference is normally Nicholls runs down field stops by then the other side has run 10 meters .He is onside
 

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
16,090
I disagree that in today’s game, they are won and lost, because of momentum.
we had all the momentum and then there was a forward pass missed followed by a dubious crusher. Now facing 2 weeks ffs
Cook got the ball fair and square at marker only to be penalised.
Mansour was a mile on side only to be called offside so he took no part. In hindsight better just to steam through and score. Reynolds would have challenged and then possibly 16-0

the penalty count was 13-2 against as Bennett said. When asked the question. Is there anything you can do to fix the discipline?“You could tell he was pissed” he came back with no not really, we are 1 in least penalties conceded, so there is nothing to fix up.

I wish he had a lash and threw 10k at a scathing rant. We just lay down and take it. It’s not really good enough. Other teams winge then treated more with more leniency in the following weeks.

we need to be dirty like the big 2

funny how the knees to Mansour a head by Luai are let go. Weeks ago when the parra boy had his lung punctured there was a crack down. Obviously not on the darling teams
Edit.

Thought I was responding to a post in the spoiler thread on the main forum. My comment was out of line given the above is in the Souths section.
 

Jim Rockford

Bench
Messages
3,082
Referee Ashley Klein isn't exactly on our Christmas card list. And yes, there is a connection between him and Penrith. His dad, Johnny Klein played halfback in the 1970s. So as you can see, that somewhat blows the local ref theory out of the water.
So because Klein doesn't manipulate games to get you the win then that is proof that Atkins doesn't either? That's some quality sophistry right there!
 

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