Round 23 V Souths

[mxlegend99]

JAC is several orders of magnitude better than Staines though, so he's got that going for him.

Definitely. But apparently he wouldn't miss a one on one tackle to save a try like Staines did.

When realistically every winger is going to miss that tackle 90% of the time and when the tackle is made everyone will be talking about how the winger bombed the try. Fox actually started pretty poorly. But he warmed into the game and Storm know how to get him the ball with space. 4 linebreaks off 9 runs. Get the ball to him with a half gap and he's away.

 

[Girds89]

Daniel Tupou is a 196cm 105kg beast and has been in the game for years and has been one of the best finishers for years.

I suggest you rewatch his try if you think it was such an easy position to make a tackle.

Paul Momirovski is not sliding as the ball spreads and Charlie Staines has about 20 metres of open field with Daniel Tupou in front of him. He can't commit to Daniel Tupou until it's too late. (Like Fox with his winger) He starts coming in to help his centre (like Fox) which is when the ball is passed, he then turns to head sideways toward the sideline (similar to fox, different angle) and Tupou has already gotten past him on the field. When Staines makes contact with Tupou he has no weight in the tackle and only gets his hand to slightly wrap around his thigh.

Josh Addo-Carr would have likely made the same defensive decisions and like Staines he wouldn't have been able to get good contact on a much bigger winger to stop him one on one. A slower winger wouldn't have even been able to make contact in these situations most likely. Good players and good teams score from those plays because when you set them up properly they are impossible to defend.

It's absolutely ridiculous to expect a winger to be able to cover so much ground in one on one tackles when they can't commit to the bloke they need to tackle until it's basically impossible to stop him.

Youve lost me completley. Watched both replays back to back a few times.

Absolutley 100% different tackles and situations.

Your dreaming if you think otherwise.

For startes JAC runs 30m backwards.....

Charlies sliding sideways.

JAC had to go high as titans winger who is 178cm and 105kg brick was at close to top speed 2m from line when JAC made contact.

Charlie went low, got his right shoulder in and arms around. Just couldnt chop him down. Good defenders do when they make contact like that..

Charlie did well in his situation. Showed him the sideline and left enough time to get there and execute and good tackle into touch or just stop him, but he couldnt.

There is actual zero similaraties at all between those two tackles types, the set play, the way each defence was moving etc.

 

[BxTom]

Youve lost me completley. Watched both replays back to back a few times.

Absolutley 100% different tackles and situations.

Your dreaming if you think otherwise.

For startes JAC runs 30m backwards.....

Charlies sliding sideways.

JAC had to go high as titans winger who is 178cm and 105kg brick was at close to top speed 2m from line when JAC made contact.

Charlie went low, got his right shoulder in and arms around. Just couldnt chop him down. Good defenders do when they make contact like that..

Charlie did well in his situation. Showed him the sideline and left enough time to get there and execute and good tackle into touch or just stop him, but he couldnt.

There is actual zero similaraties at all between those two tackles types, the set play, the way each defence was moving etc.

Specsavers...

 

[Girds89]

JAC is several orders of magnitude better than Staines though, so he's got that going for him.

Its exactly that. I could cop the missed tackle the other week if he did something to make up for it.

Same as all his mistakes. If he made up fpr his errors through big effort plays, no dramas.

Regardless to ones thoughts on JACs miss tonight...

He made 139m, 2 tries 4 line breaks, two try assists and 7 tackle breaks. No errors and the one tackle he missed was an impossible stop.

Even if i think it was a extremley difficult stop... he made up for it!!!

 

[Girds89]

Specsavers...

Another one eyed panther fan hey Bx?

His been dropped bx...

His offensive output hadnt really changed?

Is it just a coincidence he was dropped after that game where he missed imo a tackle a winger should make?

Ivan cleary nows more than all us and his not in the side. So that says something imo. Sure its probably not down to one part of his game. But overall he obviosly feels his not our best option moving forward this year..

What else do we know about ivan? He likes strong reliable defenders!! Naden getting dropped for tmay last year is clear evidence of that.

So charlie gets droped after that miss... and he puts critta there who has been one of our best defenders all year... coincidence??

Ivan obviously hadnt seen enough from him and was concerned about parts of his game. Hence not being selected.

 

[BxTom]

Another one eyed panther fan hey Bx?

His been dropped bx...

His offensive output hadnt really changed?

Is it just a coincidence he was dropped after that game where he missed imo a tackle a winger should make?

Ivan cleary nows more than all us and his not in the side. So that says something imo. Sure its probably not down to one part of his game. But overall he obviosly feels his not our best option moving forward this year..

What else do we know about ivan? He likes strong reliable defenders!! Naden getting dropped for tmay last year is clear evidence of that.

So charlie gets droped after that miss... and he puts critta there who has been one of our best defenders all year... coincidence??

Ivan obviously hadnt seen enough from him and was concerned about parts of his game. Hence not being selected.

You must be right and everyone else is wrong...

 

[maple_69]

So do we take things easy tomorrow in order to keep some tactics/plays in reserve for when we inevitably play these guys in the first week of the finals at the risk of losing and giving them confidence, or do we treat it like an actual final and try to break their spirit?

I hope it is the latter. There does not seem to be much use in playing silly buggers. Play your hardest, and fix up the things that didn't work before the next time we meet.

Go hard out. Blow off as much rust as possible. Get some confidence in our middle defence up. I don’t think our game has too many secrets, teams just can’t defend relentless line speed, go forward and Cleary. Bunnies are running hot on confidence but falling at the first real challenge and knowing we didn’t even have the two most impactful metre makers in the game would be tough to swallow.

 

[Girds89]

You must be right and everyone else is wrong...

Or ivan is right hahah? You literally arent adding anything? You wrote specsavers... and havent tried to write anything to suggest different to what i posted you....

Staines tackle below at exact point contact is made. After he slid sideways 8m to make tackle.



JAC tackle at exact point contact was made after running 30m backwards and being off balance.



Yeah BX they look identical to me haha..

Like i said JAC was off balance and was almost at full flight going backwards trying to stop 105kg winger.

Staines did well to get into position to get topou who is also 105kg. Hit him with shoulder and got his arms around but couldnt bring him down.

Not sure how you think those plays or tackles are similar at all? And if you actually had something useful to say maybe youd offer more than specsavers... and id be happy to read!

 

[mxlegend99]

Or ivan is right hahah? You literally arent adding anything? You wrote specsavers... and havent tried to write anything to suggest different to what i posted you....

Staines tackle below at exact point contact is made. After he slid sideways 8m to make tackle.

View attachment 52570

JAC tackle at exact point contact was made after running 30m backwards and being off balance.

View attachment 52571

Yeah BX they look identical to me haha..

Like i said JAC was off balance and was almost at full flight going backwards trying to stop 105kg winger.

Staines did well to get into position to get topou who is also 105kg. Hit him with shoulder and got his arms around but couldnt bring him down.

Not sure how you think those plays or tackles are similar at all? And if you actually had something useful to say maybe youd offer more than specsavers... and id be happy to read!

Staines gets a hand to a bloke who's 105kg and already progressed beyond him on the field. A f**king hand. You say he gets his shoulder into him and at best his shoulder might brush Tupou as the hand he gets a grip with causes his body to swing around Tupou.

He only got as close as he did because of pace. Most other wingers are not even close enough to fall off that tackle.

Hit him with his shoulder and got his arms around him? You're deadset blind if that's what you're seeing.

Fox at least was deadset infront of his bloke at one point. Staines never was to ever have any weight in his tackle. But both were basically impossible situations because everyone inside them was beaten leaving them one on one with big wingers with pace and space to have all the advantage in those situations.

 

[WestyLife]

The Toupu try gets scored 99% of the time just due to physics. The momentum was all in favour of the attacker. Even guys like Morris would've struggled in the exact tackle under the same conditions.

 

[mxlegend99]

The Toupu try gets scored 99% of the time just due to physics. The momentum was all in favour of the attacker. Even guys like Morris would've struggled in the exact tackle under the same conditions.

Exactly. Sometimes there's nothing a player can realistically do and it's praying the other guy fumbles the ball or stumbles while running.

Fullbacks and wingers are frequently left with tough decisions to make and needing to hope the other guy makes a mistake.

Charlie generally shuts down the opportunities early though. Which is why that edge has the best defensive record of any right edge. But no one can make the perfect decision everytime and sometimes there's no decision that stops a try.

 

[Vicpanther]

Imagine arguing about a veteran winger who has played at every level and a kid that's just started his career.
Give the kid a chance to prove himself before writing him off.

 

[Smug Panther]

Imagine arguing about a veteran winger who has played at every level and a kid that's just started his career.
Give the kid a chance to prove himself before writing him off.

Proven to me he's a first grader. Excellent defence and a good finisher

 

[mxlegend99]

Proven to me he's a first grader. Excellent defence and a good finisher

Yep. His body needs to fill out and build strength so he can offer more for yardage.

But having a young rookie winger that rarely concedes a try and scores more than most is nice. His deficiencies can be improved with hard work.

His speed and instincts can't be coached. He'd have a few more tries too if he had Critter at right centre all season.

 

[Vicpanther]

Yep. His body needs to fill out and build strength so he can offer more for yardage.

But having a young rookie winger that rarely concedes a try and scores more than most is nice. His deficiencies can be improved with hard work.

His speed and instincts can't be coached. He'd have a few more tries too if he had Critter at right centre all season.

Having a winger that isn't a liability under a high ball is a bonus too.

 

[Girds89]

Staines gets a hand to a bloke who's 105kg and already progressed beyond him on the field. A f**king hand. You say he gets his shoulder into him and at best his shoulder might brush Tupou as the hand he gets a grip with causes his body to swing around Tupou.

He only got as close as he did because of pace. Most other wingers are not even close enough to fall off that tackle.

Hit him with his shoulder and got his arms around him? You're deadset blind if that's what you're seeing.

Fox at least was deadset infront of his bloke at one point. Staines never was to ever have any weight in his tackle. But both were basically impossible situations because everyone inside them was beaten leaving them one on one with big wingers with pace and space to have all the advantage in those situations.

Haha you tried to say they were very similar tackles.

Ill ive pointed out is they werent!! And this post you highlight that yourself hahah.

As ive said this whole time. Two very different tackles and situations.

I still believe the better defensive wingers in the comp stop topou but thats just an opinion.. none of us will ever know either way now..

Like i said before also.. we know ivan loves strong defensive players! Staines attack and work rate has been the same all year... yet he got dropped after chooks game where he had a miss which led to a try and he moved critta to wing whose a much better defender. Coincidence?

Literally exactly the same happened this time last year with naden.

Ive said all along this year Charlies a fb or nothing. From what weve seen this year that really is basically what it comes down to.

 

[mxlegend99]

Haha you tried to say they were very similar tackles.

Ill ive pointed out is they werent!! And this post you highlight that yourself hahah.

As ive said this whole time. Two very different tackles and situations.

I still believe the better defensive wingers in the comp stop topou but thats just an opinion.. none of us will ever know either way now..

Like i said before also.. we know ivan loves strong defensive players! Staines attack and work rate has been the same all year... yet he got dropped after chooks game where he had a miss which led to a try and he moved critta to wing whose a much better defender. Coincidence?

Literally exactly the same happened this time last year with naden.

Ive said all along this year Charlies a fb or nothing. From what weve seen this year that really is basically what it comes down to.

They were similar situations. Fox had the easier of the two and i highlighted the fact you were dribbling shit saying other wingers in that situation make the tackle. They don't. Fox proved last night in a similar situation there's just nothing much a winger can do.

If Ivan dropped him for defence after 1 missed tackle he would be an idiot. Especially if he's fitting in Naden who drops off tackles and makes poor defensive reads.

But that missed tackle had nothing to do with it. We know that because Staines was going to be dropped before he even missed that tackle. We had confirmation here that he wasn't meant to play against Roosters and only made the cut because Naden was ruled out. It was his 15m gained verse the Storm that got him axed. Not his defensive output which has been consistently good all season.

 

[The_Frog]

i watched freddy and the eighth today. Joey had has us behind souths and manly in beating the storm this year. honestly don't see how they think souths are so great they have played no one. This weeks game will show how there travelling and honestly i can see us putting 50 on them again (i can also see them putting 50 on us but that's because we seem to be in cruise mode until finals)

They've been putting 50 on shit teams and we haven't. To an addled mind, that represents better, no consideration of why that might be so.

 

[The_Frog]

I think this week is a good week for the Fish to miss. After last week’s Harvey Norman Women in League round, this week will be the Shoulder Charge crackdown weekend, brought to you by Drummond Golf. And as the team most responsible for last weeks negative headlines, I will bet my house* on at least one Panther being penalised and charged for a shoulder charge (that isn’t a claim the league is biased against Penrith, it’s just how rugby league works).

* Gamble responsibly.

I know Graham Annesley isn't exactly edge of the seat viewing, but he did this week put together a collage of 10 or so shoulder tackles this season that lacked force and were not charged, along with an explanation of exactly what the MRC is looking for. Of course none of them were high profile players and so they all slipped under the radar. Those with the big mouths need to grit their teeth and watch this, it comes out every Monday. You might even say it is essential research if you want to write media articles or talk on TV shows about who should and should not have been charged.

 

[martielang]

You could 100% guarantee if this was 12 months ago and the defensive winger was Mansour the very same people saying it was an impossible tackle would be arguing it was a NSW Cup standard attempt and he should be dropped for the remainder of the season...

Not that it's the end of the world but it was a poor miss. Not sure how it can be argued otherwise.