Round 24 vs Newcastle Discussion & Voting

[Big Pete]

Blooding new players is "overrated"?

What happens to any club that doesn't do this?

Oh ... that would be oblivion.

Missing the point.

One thing to hand out spots in the first grade team like their prizes at the Ekka.

Another to genuinely develop talent.

As stated, there's rarely been that opportunity this season and nobody is banging the door down like say Corey Oates last season.

I can see where Big Pete is coming from but in all fairness you will never get to see if an up and coming player is good enough unless he gets a run in first grade.

The point I'm making is that as a coach you'll have a fair idea of where they're at and would be able to draw up a cost benefit analysis on using the player at that time.

Normally when a player is given a go, it's out of necessity rather than opportunity. I've made this point and I'll keep making it but the Broncos have been somewhat blessed to have a fairly manageable run with injuries so that occasion has rarely been there.

I have never said this ... and don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth as Pete often does.

Speaking of delicate little flowers.

I'll put another word in there, hypocritical.

As I've said before, facts have never gotten in the way of a Daz rant.

 

[hooch is crazy]

I have never said this ... and don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth as Pete often does.

And no, I don't have to name any players. I am talking about the culture that Griffin has instilled in the place. I'll turn that around and ask you to tell me why you can't name a player who's ready to debut.

The fact that there ARE NO players coming through IS the problem. In a healthy club, MANY young players are always coming through. You are spoilt for choice (as we have been in the past). You may have to ask the question "which of these three young fullbacks should I choose?"

With all of the Broncos wealth and resources this should CERTAINLY be the case. One has to work very hard at dysfunction to get the club to where it is now.

And please explain to me why taking a CALCULATED risk on a player is worse than the alternative. Are these young players such delicate little flowers, and the support structure at the club so non-existent that they'll be scared for life? Please. Give me a break.

I didn't put anything into your mouth. I was simply pointing out the futility of a hit-and-hope approach, because that could be the only tactic available if nobody is demanding selection with their form.

I can't name anyone because I don't watch the NYC or ISC very often. If you don't either, you don't have any business saying some of them should be getting a shot OR ranting that there aren't any worthy of being given a shot. If you do watch those comps, surely you would have examples.

The named side is good enough. Lachlan Maranta is not the reason Brisbane can't win games they should be winning.

Don't forget that up until a few weeks ago, they were 2 points outside the top four.

The reason for the recent slide has nothing to do with a lack of quality young players being given opportunities. Do you really believe they'd be better placed on the ladder right now if some rookies had been given a shot at some point in the recent past? Darren Lockyer 2.0 is not waiting in the wings being denied an opportunity.

I have a lot of problems with what has been happening with the Broncos under Griffin but this squad is good enough to win 13+ games a year. There a lots of reason why they haven't been able to but the lack of rookies in the first grade side recently is not one of them.

 

[Dazzat]

Missing the point.

One thing to hand out spots in the first grade team like their prizes at the Ekka.

Another to genuinely develop talent.

As stated, there's rarely been that opportunity this season and nobody is banging the door down like say Corey Oates last season.

The point I'm making is that as a coach you'll have a fair idea of where they're at and would be able to draw up a cost benefit analysis on using the player at that time.

Normally when a player is given a go, it's out of necessity rather than opportunity. I've made this point and I'll keep making it but the Broncos have been somewhat blessed to have a fairly manageable run with injuries so that occasion has rarely been there.



Speaking of delicate little flowers.

I'll put another word in there, hypocritical.

As I've said before, facts have never gotten in the way of a Daz rant.

Go your hardest Pete. Where have I ever said ANYTHING about throwing around first grade spots with abandon? Never!

Here is a simple fact: The biggest most influential, most cashed up club in the land is currently incapable of developing new players into first grade material.

Here's another fact: The biggest most influential, most cashed up club in the land can't attract established players to the club.

Here's another fact: The only established players that come to the club do so because of their family, not because they want to play at the club.

Here's another fact: Most new players that come into the squad struggle to fit in and find form.

Oh and here's another fact: Players are retained in the first grade squad regardless of form shown on the field.

Now if you want to defend the administration and the coach, go your hardest. Me, I can't wait for next year when hopefully some sanity will return.

 

[Big Pete]

Go your hardest Pete. Where have I ever said ANYTHING about throwing around first grade spots with abandon? Never!

You need to stop and think for a second that not every point I make is about you.

My point was directed at Snappy who made a point of distinguishing between blooding and developing. You then decided to have a go like you do so I explained my point again and now you want me to play a game of tag.

Not enough hours in the day for that.

Rant away. When you're done throwing your toys around the cot maybe you can add something productive and answer hooch's question with something other than a question.

 

[hooch is crazy]

Well. That escalated at a medium pace.

The tone didn't really have to go the way it did. Bit of a shame cause talking football with other passionate fans is awesome, regardless of differences in opinion. This thread is all yucky now, though.

Anywho......yeah. Knights are crap. Broncs should do it easy.

Also, Hunt still has time to make a big play for the Boney M.

 

[GoTheBroncs]

I'd have to somewhat agree with Daz here.

When we have had guys like Stagg and Lowrie coming off the bench, why would it hurt to give a rookie a chance? It's not like our chances would drop. Actually there has been times when Lowrie has come on that I just wish he would go off.

If we really don't have anyone knocking down the door, then that is essentially a bigger problem in itself, yes?

 

[GoTheBroncs]

More on this, how many games have be played with 16 players or the 17th player gets 5-10 minutes?

I mean it's like we don't even have 17 players good enough for first grade!

 

[GoTheBroncs]

You need to stop and think for a second that not every point I make is about you.

My point was directed at Snappy who made a point of distinguishing between blooding and developing. You then decided to have a go like you do so I explained my point again and now you want me to play a game of tag.

Sorry BP, I enjoy reading your posts as much as anyone, but you made that statement directly below where you quoted Daz. Not sure how that can be interpreted any other way but directly at Daz.

 

[GoTheBroncs]

Well. That escalated at a medium pace.

The tone didn't really have to go the way it did. Bit of a shame cause talking football with other passionate fans is awesome, regardless of differences in opinion. This thread is all yucky now, though.

Anywho......yeah. Knights are crap. Broncs should do it easy.

Also, Hunt still has time to make a big play for the Boney M.

Thanks for steadying the ship Hooch!

In regards to Hunt on the dally M, as much as I'd like to see him get it, a part of me wants him to miss it as he still has a few deficiencies in his game. To win the Dally M, you really need to be on top of all aspects of your game. This is why I'd like to see Hayne get it is year. There is plenty of time for Hunt if he is good enough.

 

[hooch is crazy]

I'd have to somewhat agree with Daz here.

When we have had guys like Stagg and Lowrie coming off the bench, why would it hurt to give a rookie a chance? It's not like our chances would drop. Actually there has been times when Lowrie has come on that I just wish he would go off.

If we really don't have anyone knocking down the door, then that is essentially a bigger problem in itself, yes?

I think it's actually really hard to argue with any of the problems that are being pointed out.

Lack of development, lack of recruitment, poor skills, poor defense, poor bench management, poor decision making, terrible set plays, team not playing for 80 mins, etcetera, etcetera.

You could also point out examples of where the club/team/coaching staff have gotten tthese things right. Inconsistency is the biggest problem and after 3 years, getting the exact squad he wanted and all the resources he needs; the buck must stop with the head coach.

 

[DeeJ]

Thanks for steadying the ship Hooch!

In regards to Hunt on the dally M, as much as I'd like to see him get it, a part of me wants him to miss it as he still has a few deficiencies in his game. To win the Dally M, you really need to be on top of all aspects of your game. This is why I'd like to see Hayne get it is year. There is plenty of time for Hunt if he is good enough.

Whaaaaat?! The Dally M is incredibly hard to win and Brisbane have only won it once with the great Allan Langer. Even Darren Lockyer never won it. It would be great for Hunt to win it, maybe one of the few positives for this year especially if we miss the finals.

I also don't want another Hayne train media jerk off again and as for being at the top of your game in all aspects, how the hell did Matt Orford win?

 

[Big Pete]

Sorry BP, I enjoy reading your posts as much as anyone, but you made that statement directly below where you quoted Daz. Not sure how that can be interpreted any other way but directly at Daz.

In response to a point Snappy made.

In-fact what I said to Daz was that I wasn't responding to him and then I proceeded to reply to Snappy.

When we have had guys like Stagg and Lowrie coming off the bench, why would it hurt to give a rookie a chance? It's not like our chances would drop. Actually there has been times when Lowrie has come on that I just wish he would go off.

If we really don't have anyone knocking down the door, then that is essentially a bigger problem in itself, yes?

And that's a fair point but at the same time what difference would it really make?

You hand these guys a spot before they really deserve it and what does it matter at the end of the day?

It isn't like it'd improve the situation because the issue isn't Stagg playing two games or Lowrie coming off the bench or any of the issues people get upset over on teamlist Tuesday. The games are rarely decided on paper, it's the technical aspects and that's where the Broncos have been lacking so far in 2014.

Most of the NYC boys are exactly where they should. The only player who should be pressing for more game-time is Molo and his form wasn't where it should have been.

Bringing in ISC players like Frei could have been an option but I'm unsure what the logistics of such a move would have involved and whether it'd be worth it.

 

[GoTheBroncs]

Whaaaaat?! The Dally M is incredibly hard to win and Brisbane have only won it once with the great Allan Langer. Even Darren Lockyer never won it. It would be great for Hunt to win it, maybe one of the few positives for this year especially if we miss the finals.

I also don't want another Hayne train media jerk off again and as for being at the top of your game in all aspects, how the hell did Matt Orford win?

Don't get me wrong, would love to see Hunt get it. I just think Hayne deserves it more this year.

 

[Dazzat]

Continually giving Lachlan Maranta a Broncos jersey is akin to throwing first grade spots around like show bags at the Ekka.

 

[some11]

how the hell did Matt Orford win?

Slater's antics against the Dragons that year.

 

[Dazzat]

You need to stop and think for a second that not every point I make is about you.

My point was directed at Snappy who made a point of distinguishing between blooding and developing. You then decided to have a go like you do so I explained my point again and now you want me to play a game of tag.

Not enough hours in the day for that.

Rant away. When you're done throwing your toys around the cot maybe you can add something productive and answer hooch's question with something other than a question.

Denying a problem exists is something that really frustrates me. I'm not talking about dwelling on problems, because that is unproductive. What I am talking about is pretending everything is peachy, while everything is so obviously not.

When I watch a post-match presser with Griffin, that is what makes me angry - not so much the poor performances. He says things like "we're not far off" - when we are obviously not.

This link is proof positive of what I have been saying here. Two players in four years:

http://rugbyleagueweek.com.au/rlws-2014-rookie-team/

 

[hooch is crazy]

Pretty sure we're all on the same page regarding the amount of rookies getting a shot. No one was saying giving more kids their debut is a bad idea.

You have to remember that a lot of these players were still barely first graders when Griffin took over. Glenn, Macca, Hunt, Reed, Gillett, Copley, Hoffman, McGuire, Wallace, Dodds, Lui...they were all pretty much rookies at the time Griffin took over. I don't mean completely green rookies but for a couple of years there, it was one of, if not THE youngest side in the comp.

He had a clear vision to use only these guys and a couple of others for a couple of years and it failed pretty badly. He definitely tried to use only players developed by Brisbane and the lack of results, which has way more to do with other aspects of his coaching than blooding players, saw them aggressively look at the market.

Yes, Barba wanted to come home more than he wanted to be a Bronco, but his reasons do not change the amount of cap room he takes up. That leaves little room to chase other players because it always costs more to poach them from the club that developed them than it would cost that club to keep them.

I believe Griffin had a plan to build a side out of the players they already had in the system. They got bundled out of one finals series easily and missed the next so the mob screamed for Brisbane to look outside and become players in the meat market. They did that and they still can't win 13+ games.

The point is that it isn't the development, recruitment and retention that is probably going to see them finish tenth for the second season in a row. The side was good enough on paper to make the finals last year and this year. It's a dozen or more other aspects of the game that Griffin cannot seem to coach that is causing this side to underperform.

 

[Dazzat]

Don't take my word for it:

Kimmorley believes Brisbane’s “recruitment and development was probably off for a couple of years” and, as a result, players such as Hunt have been starved of finals footy since 2011. “Ben Hunt is only just starting to show his potential now,” Kimmorley says.

Also, Glenn Lazarus has come out and used the "M" word in referring to the side, almost echoing my comments (although I said them first - ha ha). He said the club now accepts mediocrity - my thoughts exactly.

More here: http://rugbyleagueweek.com.au/broncos-in-finals-fade-out/

We just need to call a spade a spade - the administration and coaching staff have stuffed a once great club big time!

 

[hooch is crazy]

I reckon there would be maybe three or four with a definite spot next year but that's it. The rest of this year and the pre season will determine the fate of the rest of them, I reckon.

Hard to see Thaiday going anywhere. The biggest criticism I have of Griffin is how often he's willing to accept mediocrity.

The only point of yours I'm disagreeing with is that the roster is to blame for the shit results recently. Look at the team list for round one and tell me that team shouldn't have gone on to play finals football.

Late mail on NRL site (http://www.nrl.com/friday-late-mail/tabid/10874/newsid/81210/default.aspx) has Hodges starting at fullback. Weird choice to name him at centre, if it's true.

I don't really understand the games coaches play with the lineup sometimes. I get that they're probably not ready to finalise the side by Tuesday arvo but what's the benefit of naming Maranta at fullback then switching it up?

 

[Bretto]

The coach only has to name the players on Tuesday. From there, they try a few different combinations at training and whichever works the best, is the positions they go with on game day.