Round 24 vs Newcastle Discussion & Voting

[Dazzat]

Think I've read the 'this isn't the right time to blood a new player' all damned year.

 

[Snappy]

IOates, Copley, Hunt, Hala and Reed are some off the top of my head who have been brought through to first grade standard by Griffin. .

Copely, Hunt and Hala all debuted in 2009 under Henjak

 

[hooch is crazy]

Copely, Hunt and Hala all debuted in 2009 under Henjak

This is true. Well spotted.

I didn't actually say they debuted under Griffin, though. I said they were brought through to first grade standard by Griffin.

Copley played 4 games in '09 and 2 in '10 so Henjak can hardly be credited for bringing him up to FG standard. Hunt played 2 in '09 and while he played 20 in '10, even he credits Griffin with moulding him into the player he is today.

Hala made 1 appearance in '09 and was obviously injured in '10 but Griffin has consistently picked him when he has been fit and his form warranted selection.

All of this illustrates my point that he does allow young talent to have a shot, just not as often as he probably should.

 

[Mr Saab]

Knights playing $3 plus.....crazy money. Knights have the backline to beat us.

 

[XXXX Cap]

Granville hasn't played there in years and was far from what you'd call a traditional fullback.

Wynnum fans could better explain it but it was one of those deals that would only work in the ISC. He was very hands on from memory.

Jake played fullback for the last half of 2011 culminating in the Grand Final win. It was done basically because Wynnum had no other options at the time.

Even then, he went to dummy half coming out of his own half. He was fullback in defence and when Wynnum were in an attacking position.

Don't know about "one of those deals that would only work in the ISC" - NRL coaches just don't seem to try something different often enough to find out. The Walker brothers at Ipswich continually are creative with how the team plays and have had great success. It's always safety first in the NRL>

 

[Big Pete]

It's easier to experiment in reserve grade than it is in one of the top flight competitions.

I rate Granville but I don't think it's the type of move we should be making or should have made earlier.

 

[XXXX Cap]

It's not Reserve Grade. The Intrust Supr Cup is "one of the top flight competitions", arguably the third best in the world. Plus better to watch than the NRL because it isn't as robotic.

 

[Snappy]

This is true. Well spotted.

I didn't actually say they debuted under Griffin, though. I said they were brought through to first grade standard by Griffin.

Copley played 4 games in '09 and 2 in '10 so Henjak can hardly be credited for bringing him up to FG standard. Hunt played 2 in '09 and while he played 20 in '10, even he credits Griffin with moulding him into the player he is today.

Hala made 1 appearance in '09 and was obviously injured in '10 but Griffin has consistently picked him when he has been fit and his form warranted selection.

All of this illustrates my point that he does allow young talent to have a shot, just not as often as he probably should.

Much of a muchness bringing them 'up to standard'. We were discussing blooding new players. How many players have debuted under Griffin ? No many. Somethings you dont know if players are 'up to standard' unless you give them a shot at the big time.

 

[hellteam]

Jake played fullback for the last half of 2011 culminating in the Grand Final win. It was done basically because Wynnum had no other options at the time.

Even then, he went to dummy half coming out of his own half. He was fullback in defence and when Wynnum were in an attacking position.

Don't know about "one of those deals that would only work in the ISC" - NRL coaches just don't seem to try something different often enough to find out. The Walker brothers at Ipswich continually are creative with how the team plays and have had great success. It's always safety first in the NRL>

I actually wished when we signed Bennett that we chucked the Walker brothers in as Broncs coach for the rest of the year, just to see what happened.

For those who haven't seen them, Ipswich usually start with two massive wingers, who after about 30 minutes or so move to the second row. They then bring on 2 or 3 small wingers/halves (including Marmin Barba), who basically hover around the ruck, not really playing any specific position. Not sure how that would go in the NRL but it's really great to watch.

 

[Big Pete]

It's not Reserve Grade. The Intrust Supr Cup is "one of the top flight competitions", arguably the third best in the world. Plus better to watch than the NRL because it isn't as robotic.

No disrespect, but the point I was making is that it's a lesser standard to the NRL. More entertaining? Depends. Different strokes for different folks, really.

We were discussing blooding new players.

To be honest, this whole 'blooding' debate is rubbish.

Absolutely rubbish.

If debuting a bunch of players made you a great coach, then why were clubs like the Sharks in 2003 so dismal? They blooded 15 players that year and achieved next to nothing over the course of 12 seasons.

Furthermore, if Molo goes onto become anything over the next year or two, are we going to give Hook all the credit because he happened to give him 10 minutes against a woeful Wests outfit on a random Saturday night in May?

Of course not, at least I hope not.

I look at the next batch of 20s coming through and see plenty of exciting young talent who can make a difference.

But none of them were ready this year.

Of course Hook could have always handed these players a 10 minute cameo stint and what would it have really mattered at the end of the day?

The roster isn't the Broncos biggest problem in 2014. The problem is all the technical problems that have been apparent for sometime yet haven't been fixed and it's preventing the club from taking the next step.

That's why Hook won't be here next year.

That's hopefully why Kearney won't be with here either.

 

[DeeJ]

Bennett is bringing all his own staff so I very much doubt Kearney will be there.

 

[Dazzat]

No disrespect, but the point I was making is that it's a lesser standard to the NRL. More entertaining? Depends. Different strokes for different folks, really.

To be honest, this whole 'blooding' debate is rubbish.

Absolutely rubbish.

If debuting a bunch of players made you a great coach, then why were clubs like the Sharks in 2003 so dismal? They blooded 15 players that year and achieved next to nothing over the course of 12 seasons.

Furthermore, if Molo goes onto become anything over the next year or two, are we going to give Hook all the credit because he happened to give him 10 minutes against a woeful Wests outfit on a random Saturday night in May?

Of course not, at least I hope not.

I look at the next batch of 20s coming through and see plenty of exciting young talent who can make a difference.

But none of them were ready this year.

Of course Hook could have always handed these players a 10 minute cameo stint and what would it have really mattered at the end of the day?

The roster isn't the Broncos biggest problem in 2014. The problem is all the technical problems that have been apparent for sometime yet haven't been fixed and it's preventing the club from taking the next step.

That's why Hook won't be here next year.

That's hopefully why Kearney won't be with here either.

I am not just talking about "blooding new players" ... look at my post. I am talking about strategic player development - transitioning players from one level to the next. Having a multi-faceted plan.

This continual reference to our lower grade players that "none of them ready" which has been going on for two years now, is indicative of one or two or three things (or all) - either the club is not developing players, we recruit badly, or they are refusing to put trust in their juniors because the risk to the first grade side is deemed too great.

How long are we going to argue - "they aren't ready"?

How long is the club going to refuse to take a risk on a young player?

On current performance and the culture I am witnessing at the club I can tell you.

When all is lost and its too damned late.

Thank God Wayne Bennett is coming, because he is always ready to take a risk, and always ready to believe in the enthusiasm of youth.

 

[hooch is crazy]

Who would you boot from this week's side and who would you replace them with?

 

[Snappy]

Ok everyone. Pete said it's rubbish so that's that.

The point is that Griffin has basically refused to give new players a shot when the opportunity has been there due to injury. That's when other clubs give young guys a shot, but instead riffin would rather play some hack out of position. Thank f**k he got sacked. We used to have a production line of talent and now we're missing the finals two years in a row. Not good enough for a flagship club.

 

[Big Pete]

I am not just talking about "blooding new players" ... look at my post. I am talking about strategic player development - transitioning players from one level to the next. Having a multi-faceted plan.

With all due respect, I wasn't responding to your post. What I was responding to was this perceived value of 'blooding' players which I believe is overrated for the reasons I described.

One thing to give these new kids a go, another to bring them through when they're actually ready.

The point is that Griffin has basically refused to give new players a shot when the opportunity has been there due to injury. That's when other clubs give young guys a shot, but instead riffin would rather play some hack out of position. Thank f**k he got sacked. We used to have a production line of talent and now we're missing the finals two years in a row. Not good enough for a flagship club.

Maybe that's been true in the past but the Broncos have actually had a fairly good run with injuries this year and there's rarely been that opportunity.

In fact, the one moment that I'm thinking of when there was a clear cut opportunity, the player in question got himself suspended...and now he's out injured for the rest of the year so he's well and truly stuffed.

No doubt there has been issues with the Broncos junior development for one reason or another. I believe in this current batch coming through and believe we'll see quite a few of them in first grade. However, none of them were ready to be anything more than bit players as far as this season goes.

Now I wouldn't be surprised to find out that's due to the way Hook has been developing them and the fundamentals he's taught them.

I also wouldn't be surprised to learn that they're simply young men developing their skills and getting used to the demands of professional sport.

Either way, just because they haven't been handed a free hand-out spot doesn't mean they haven't been improving this year. They have been and I wouldn't be surprised to see a few of them debut next year.

But I will stress that their non-selection hasn't been the issue holding this club back.

 

[Dazzat]

Who would you boot from this week's side and who would you replace them with?

I guess I'm in the wrong thread. It's just not about this week's team.

Because of Griffin's short-sighted team management (and probably Andrew Gee's as well), it will take the club years to recover. Sorry to be a bearer of bad news, but that's what I see.

I have read the biographies of ex-Broncos players like Shane Webke. He told the story how Wayne Bennett gave him so much encouragement behind the scenes way before he every made first grade. He credits Bennett for instilling within him the desire to play first grade when he had given up on himself - the first grade coach talking with fringe reserve grades, encouraging them to dream about first grade!

I'll just leave that thought there.

 

[Dazzat]

With all due respect, I wasn't responding to your post. What I was responding to was this perceived value of 'blooding' players which I believe is overrated for the reasons I described.

One thing to give these new kids a go, another to bring them through when they're actually ready.



Maybe that's been true in the past but the Broncos have actually had a fairly good run with injuries this year and there's rarely been that opportunity.

In fact, the one moment that I'm thinking of when there was a clear cut opportunity, the player in question got himself suspended...and now he's out injured for the rest of the year so he's well and truly stuffed.

No doubt there has been issues with the Broncos junior development for one reason or another. I believe in this current batch coming through and believe we'll see quite a few of them in first grade. However, none of them were ready to be anything more than bit players as far as this season goes.

Now I wouldn't be surprised to find out that's due to the way Hook has been developing them and the fundamentals he's taught them.

I also wouldn't be surprised to learn that they're simply young men developing their skills and getting used to the demands of professional sport.

Either way, just because they haven't been handed a free hand-out spot doesn't mean they haven't been improving this year. They have been and I wouldn't be surprised to see a few of them debut next year.

But I will stress that their non-selection hasn't been the issue holding this club back.

Blooding new players is "overrated"?

What happens to any club that doesn't do this?

Oh ... that would be oblivion.

 

[hooch is crazy]

Which players that are unblooded are demanding selection with their form? It makes no sense for a professional outfit to just give away first grade spots in a hit-and-hope approach. That's even worse than being conservative with debuting rookies.

You have to name the players you believe Griffin is holding back.

 

[Nerd]

I can see where Big Pete is coming from but in all fairness you will never get to see if an up and coming player is good enough unless he gets a run in first grade.

 

[Dazzat]

Which players that are unblooded are demanding selection with their form? It makes no sense for a professional outfit to just give away first grade spots in a hit-and-hope approach. That's even worse than being conservative with debuting rookies.

You have to name the players you believe Griffin is holding back.

I have never said this ... and don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth as Pete often does.

And no, I don't have to name any players. I am talking about the culture that Griffin has instilled in the place. I'll turn that around and ask you to tell me why you can't name a player who's ready to debut.

The fact that there ARE NO players coming through IS the problem. In a healthy club, MANY young players are always coming through. You are spoilt for choice (as we have been in the past). You may have to ask the question "which of these three young fullbacks should I choose?"

With all of the Broncos wealth and resources this should CERTAINLY be the case. One has to work very hard at dysfunction to get the club to where it is now.

And please explain to me why taking a CALCULATED risk on a player is worse than the alternative. Are these young players such delicate little flowers, and the support structure at the club so non-existent that they'll be scared for life? Please. Give me a break.