What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Round 25 V Knights

Saint_JimmyG

First Grade
Messages
5,067
My use of stats is to get people to consider whether the evidence confirms or contradicts their assertions. Or if they are using ‘poetic licence’ Claiming Lafai doesn’t make line breaks regularly is false. On average he’s equal with a Qld origin centre, a NZ rep centre, and an acknowledged gun like Manu. All of whom have quality halves feeding them.
And if Lafai has been shit for a long long time, then that means he must have been absolutely stellar for the first half of the year to have his average still be so high. Everything is relative OT, players can only fairly be judged compared to other players, not some imaginary standard.

I can’t understand the dislike for Lafai either. Sure, he hasn’t been setting the side alight in attack (who has?), but his defence has been effective over recent weeks.

He’s also learnt to restrict the miracle pass out of his game too.
 

rednwhites

Juniors
Messages
1,303
The beltings by Melbourne and Parramatta bit deeply too.
Haven't forgotten the Parra game but it was the context surrounding the game against the Dogs that just showed how heartless they are. Today was more spirited but does little to win back a fan's confidence after serving that up for Thommo in particular.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
16,939
My use of stats is to get people to consider whether the evidence confirms or contradicts their assertions. Or if they are using ‘poetic licence’ Claiming Lafai doesn’t make line breaks regularly is false. On average he’s equal with a Qld origin centre, a NZ rep centre, and an acknowledged gun like Manu. All of whom have quality halves feeding them.
And if Lafai has been shit for a long long time, then that means he must have been absolutely stellar for the first half of the year to have his average still be so high. Everything is relative OT, players can only fairly be judged compared to other players, not some imaginary standard.
You constantly make comparisons based on stats and then form the opinion that if he is near the uppermost part of the stats he must therefore be doing well.
Do you ever consider that perhaps those stats are altogether low and that other centres may in fact be doing poorly as well in that aspect of the game?
It’s a bit like getting 45% in an exam where the top mark is 50% and saying you are doing well where in fact the teacher might be a complete f**kwhit and the kids all well uff the pace that they should be at
I look at Lafai in a game and then watch other centres such as you have named and your stats indicate they are playing similarly in reality they are chalk & cheese.
Find a game for me where Lafai was the point of difference and constructed a win or in fact turned the game on its head for the team on the back of his individual effort?
 

The Damo

Juniors
Messages
1,991
You constantly make comparisons based on stats and then form the opinion that if he is near the uppermost part of the stats he must therefore be doing well.
Do you ever consider that perhaps those stats are altogether low and that other centres may in fact be doing poorly as well in that aspect of the game?
It’s a bit like getting 45% in an exam where the top mark is 50% and saying you are doing well where in fact the teacher might be a complete f**kwhit and the kids all well uff the pace that they should be at
I look at Lafai in a game and then watch other centres such as you have named and your stats indicate they are playing similarly in reality they are chalk & cheese.
Find a game for me where Lafai was the point of difference and constructed a win or in fact turned the game on its head for the team on the back of his individual effort?
I actually form my opinions watching, then check the stats, then make comparisons to give context.
With your exam example, if getting 45% puts you near the top of everyone who took the exam then Yes, comparatively you have done well. The only meaningful comparison for NRL centres is other NRL centres, I genuinely don’t understand why that’s not obvious.
I’m not sure how to make this clearer, but whether you see it it or don’t see it - per possession this year Lafai is unequivocally as dangerous in attack as Gagai. He has less possessions but has the same line breaks and similar try involvements and assists. Gagai gets the ball on average 5.5 times more per game than Lafai, his total try involvements per game is 0.6, and Lafai’s is 0.5. They both average 0.3 line breaks per game, but Gagai touches the ball 25% more than Lafai. You saying you haven’t noticed it, doesn’t actually change it.
And one example is tonight - his hard run and offload that set up the nene try, and his defensive pressure forcing the error for JP try to seal it.
 

Wittenberg

Juniors
Messages
1,140
I know we keep talking about Herbert but I think he is still not signed beyond this year? A few clubs are after him. He may well be lost to us.
 

boardlumps62

Juniors
Messages
1,481
McInness played much better today. Hunt also seemed to gain confidence in the second half. They are two positives while our defence was one minute excellent, the next soft. Nene! Bloody hell, scores a great try, misses a tackle that should have been made on his winger that leads to a try, then wanders in field when not needed which allowed Pearce to put a kick across to open territory for another Newcastle try. Then that pass from the 25 tap restart?????
Hot then bloody cold but having a dig
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
16,939
I actually form my opinions watching, then check the stats, then make comparisons to give context.
With your exam example, if getting 45% puts you near the top of everyone who took the exam then Yes, comparatively you have done well. The only meaningful comparison for NRL centres is other NRL centres, I genuinely don’t understand why that’s not obvious.
I’m not sure how to make this clearer, but whether you see it it or don’t see it - per possession this year Lafai is unequivocally as dangerous in attack as Gagai. He has less possessions but has the same line breaks and similar try involvements and assists. Gagai gets the ball on average 5.5 times more per game than Lafai, his total try involvements per game is 0.6, and Lafai’s is 0.5. They both average 0.3 line breaks per game, but Gagai touches the ball 25% more than Lafai. You saying you haven’t noticed it, doesn’t actually change it.
And one example is tonight - his hard run and offload that set up the nene try, and his defensive pressure forcing the error for JP try to seal it.
FMD when the offload today against a side that was overall shit is the basis of your defence of a player best you get some other examples
You love making the comparison to Gagai well his team is where on the ladder and where are we which was part of my initial post.
We have been held scoreless several times and had lots of low score games as well of which Lafai having played all games could have excelled but nothing overly comes to mind.
We bought this bloke as a strike centre well he is anything but that IMHO
 

boardlumps62

Juniors
Messages
1,481
I am glad to read your comment, Carlton. Thought I must have been dreaming! On the video it looks like the ball was in Sio's possession as he scraped the corner post. But I was at the ground with a perfect and close view of the sideline, the corner post and Sio. I was sitting in that corner at the base of the hill. The ball bounced off the corner post into Sio's hands. He would not have caught it had it not hit the corner post. But this is not what the video shows! Could not believe it when I saw it. What gives with this technology? The lying video camera! It's tough enough dealing with touchies who don't call the forward passes and refs who send our blokes to the sinbin and give us few of the 50-50s without having to cop a biased camera!
Im gunna watch a replay didnt get why they mentioned the corner post just thought it was a try.
 

The Damo

Juniors
Messages
1,991
FMD when the offload today against a side that was overall shit is the basis of your defence of a player best you get some other examples
You love making the comparison to Gagai well his team is where on the ladder and where are we which was part of my initial post.
We have been held scoreless several times and had lots of low score games as well of which Lafai having played all games could have excelled but nothing overly comes to mind.
We bought this bloke as a strike centre well he is anything but that IMHO
Other examples like his record of attacking output over the season? The record that is comparable to centres you do consider strike centres? I know I’m never gonna convince you OT, and we’re all entitled to our opinions. But the evidence remains. And I’ll keep mentioning it when appropriate.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
16,939
Other examples like his record of attacking output over the season? The record that is comparable to centres you do consider strike centres? I know I’m never gonna convince you OT, and we’re all entitled to our opinions. But the evidence remains. And I’ll keep mentioning it when appropriate.
Ok you’re the king of stats so maybe you can help me out with a few.
How many runs over 50m with ball in hand?
How many runs over 40m with ball in hand?
Even bold enough to say how many over 30m?
How many line beaks by our players from within our half has he been the support player that streaked away to score?
How many opposition attacking players has he run down from behind after giving chase?
 

dragonreddy

Juniors
Messages
1,216
FMD when the offload today against a side that was overall shit is the basis of your defence of a player best you get some other examples
You love making the comparison to Gagai well his team is where on the ladder and where are we which was part of my initial post.
We have been held scoreless several times and had lots of low score games as well of which Lafai having played all games could have excelled but nothing overly comes to mind.
We bought this bloke as a strike centre well he is anything but that IMHO[/QUOTE]
 

dragonreddy

Juniors
Messages
1,216
FMD when the offload today against a side that was overall shit is the basis of your defence of a player best you get some other examples
You love making the comparison to Gagai well his team is where on the ladder and where are we which was part of my initial post.
We have been held scoreless several times and had lots of low score games as well of which Lafai having played all games could have excelled but nothing overly comes to mind.
We bought this bloke as a strike centre well he is anything but that IMHO[/QUOTE]



He's been on strike since he came to the club ,that's only way strike could be included with his name.

You are right he is ordinary at best and a consistent contributor to the rubbish we dish at this time every year.

We have had some planks play for us in the past 6 years and this bloke would be one of the higher paid ones,doubt he would get a start in the top grade at any other top 8 side.
 

getsmarty

Immortal
Messages
33,485
Dragons nail down home final with gritty win over Newcastle
Dragons Den
r0_0_3858_2808_w1200_h678_fmax.jpg

NICE: Dragons players celebrate Jeremy Latimore's try in their win over Newcastle on Saturday. Picture: AAP

Can a single tackle turn a season? It remains to be seen, but Jordan Pereira's bone-rattler on Mitch Barnett in his side's 24-14 win over Newcastle on Saturday could prove that moment.

The shot, ironically on one of the NRL's noted hitmen, came midway through the second half with the Dragons trailing 10-8. His wing partner Nene Macdonald went 70 metres minutes later to take a 14-10 lead.

Pereira ultimately sealed the win with his 78th minute try after Matt Dufty gave his side a four-point buffer with a long range effort against the run of play with 12 minutes left on the clock.

They had to survive a late onslaught, and a bunker intervention to deny Barnett a go-ahead four-pointer five minutes from time, but Paul McGregor's men found enough desperation to see out the 80 minutes and earn a home final in week one of the post-season.

“It was good timing wasn't it?” McGregor said of Pereira's tackle post-match.

“He made the decision to come off the wing on the pass and made the right tackle at a really important time. That's one of the game-changers you have when you're short a couple of numbers and you come up with a play like that which is good for Jordy.

“It gives him good confidence going forward. There's some things in Nene's game that he'd like to have over again but it's a better game than he's had in the last couple of weeks.

“He certainly turned the game with that run so it's good timing going into next week for a few boys.”

It will give the Dragons advantage against either the Warriors or Broncos depending on the result of the latter's clash with Manly on Sunday, with skipper Gareth Widdop set to return from a shoulder injury.

“If we'd won last week he would've played so he'll definitely be playing next week,” McGregor said.

“We'd lost our opportunity to be in the top four so we didn't want to play him today because of the position we would've finished regardless of the win or loss.”

It's unlikely the gritty more than pretty win will fully restore the faith of the fans who booed them of the park last week, but it gives them a sniff of a finals run after finding some part of their best in the final 20 minutes.

"We'll take the win [but] we did it the hard way,” McGregor said.

“We had no possession in the first half, no field position. It was just like the other eight weeks before it but we found a way today which was good.

“They had 46 play-the-balls in our 20, we had eight in theirs, so I thought our goal-line d was exceptional. To man, the effort the energy and the intent across the board which was pleasing.

“We only missed 14 tackles and, with the amount of possession the opposition had, we made 400 tackles. We wanted to really get back to [being] a strong defensive side which we were for the first 15-16 rounds and we haven't been of late. Today was a part of that.

“Errors and penalties [were] not good enough, we need to learn from that. We've got to be better, there's no doubt about that, but next week's a different competition.It's knockout footy so both teams are level.

“We've beaten all teams that are in [the top eight] so why not?”.

McGregor had some early concerns, with Jack de Belin reeling out of collision just two minutes in and requiring running repairs on an injured ankle for most of the first half.

It didn't stop him scoring what looked like the opening try after a badly shanked kick from Ben Hunt deflected into the arms of Cam McInnes only for replays to show both were offside.

It kept the score at 2-0 after Zac Lomax grabbed his first NRL points with a seventh-minute penalty goal. The lead didn't last long with Ken Sio juggling a Cory Denniss flick pass before grounding it in the eastern corner. Nick Meaney's attempted conversion was waved away keeping the score at 4-0 after 12 minutes.

Lomax was in the action again when he produced a miraculous one-handed grab of a bouncing Hunt grubber only to fumble the ball in an attempt to ground it, with the bunker ruling no try.

The rookie had a moment to forget 17 minutes before the break, driving his second penalty goal attempt into the upright after the Dragons elected to take the two in good attacking position.

The teenager's mixed afternoon continued when he spilled a flick pass from Dufty over the try-line five minutes before halftime.

He did the same at his own end in the next set opening the door for Shaun Kenny-Dowall's try off a well-placed kick from Mitchell Pearce, giving the hosts a 10-2 lead at the interval.

Jeremy Latimore took the momentum early in the second stanza, scoring a rare try from close range seven minutes after the resumption to cut the margin back to two with Lomax's conversion.

Pereira produced his match-turning try-saver on Barnett to deny what looked like a certain try with Macdonald streaking away for a crucial four-pointer in the next set..

Lomax converted from the sideline for a 14-10 lead with 20 minutes to play before Hunt swooped on a loose ball and found Dufty for a long-range try to re-take the lead.

Barnett was denied what would have been the match-winning try five minutes from fulltime with replays showing Jack Cogger had fumbled a loose ball after Dufty spilled a spiral bomb from Pearce.

Ken Sio got his side back within four with nine minutes left before Pereira put the match to bed in the dying minutes.

https://www.illawarramercury.com.au...final-with-gritty-win-over-newcastle/?cs=3713
 

Latest posts

Top