Round 25 v Sharks

[Dragon David]

My take on yesterday's disaster is that we were exposed-ruthlessly- by a much superior team probably with another 20% improvement in them when Hynes, Talakai and their two starting wingers return.

Conversely, the players we were missing yesterday- Flanagan,Sele, RFM, BMM, Suli- I doubt would have given us much of what we really needed.

At the most basic level, this team lacks three essential ingredients- in the right places. Firstly size- the media talk us up as a big physical side but we lack big, fit, high impact props. Royce Hunt, Hamlin-Uele, Rudolph and Hazelton killed us yesterday and made metres at will.

Secondly speed and footwork- the size we do have -in the outside backs- slows us down. Tui, Lomax and the Feagai brothers I doubt we'll be seeing in any sprint final on GF day. The footwork that Ramien and Iro put on Max and Matt yesterday resulted in tries. We over rely on Sloan for speed but of course he is lacking in other areas. The recruitment of Holmes next year will help but not enough imo.

Speed is also lacking in our non-prop middles and backrow. Sua is the exception but yesterday Nikora was just about motm and McInnes and Williams were far more mobile than Tom E, Luch (who still looks like he's swallowed a sheep) and the Couchmen.

Finally, footie intelligence- hate to say it but Fitz outcoached Flanno- we only started to think about off loading consistently when we were playing catchup in the second half. No signs of any planned moves like the outside inside pass that resulted in Sloans' try against the Dogs. Head down bum up, one out, easy to defend stuff that the Sharks could see coming a mile away.

The depressing truth is that we are no closer to a comp winning team than we were 5 years ago under Mary- bargain basement recruiting, poor talent scouting and poor coaching has led us here. As I understand it, the Sharks scouting system uncovered a lot of yesterday's team from outside their relatively small junior set up. (Hunt, I think, was discovered in WA).

More evidence of systemic probs? the Sharks are fielding an NRLW team for the first time this year and they are leading the comp. Thumped us- who've been in the comp for some time- 28-4. Again, better recruitment and coaching.

Exactly what I have been saying redandwhite4evr. Our club just has poor coaching, poor recruitment and poor leadership on top of poor administration and a real lack of workable winning systems to be followed and updated and improved on a regular basis to ensure their viablity and success for years to come. Success at a club is not just making the semis and then reverting back to near wooden spooners. It is making finals footy every year and that is what the Dragons should always be aiming for.

You cannot have a powerful club if you have powerless people running it. We are just running on the one spot each year and us fans wonder what sort of year we will have and if we make the finals that is success. Well if we do make the finals, then make it again and again....

The Panthers have now reached a lets try for a premiership winning fourpeat, while we have yet to taste a finals repeat.

I know this isn't the right thread for these posts but in a way it is seeing that it involves the Sharks and they have been consistently been in the finals since 2015 except for 2021 when they came 9th and that is because they have devised winning ways by following the successful clubs - better coaching, better recruitment, better leadership, better administration and systems.

Boy I crap on don't I. Hahaha!

 

[since77]

If improvements are not sustained then why call them improvements aren’t they just an occasional blip on the radar?

Seriously. So every second week this season we've had a "blip on the radar" huh? So which is it? Every win we apparently haven't improved by your rationale and every loss apparently just confirms what you're saying? Geez.
If we'd had just ONE more of your "blips on the radar" we'd be safely in the top 8. Just one extra blip dude.

p.s. yesterday's loss was just as discouraging and depressing for me to watch as I'm sure it was for you. But you're blaming the wrong things.

It's. The. Roster. A roster which SF inherited and had to add a few quick "beggars can't be choosers" fixes to be somewhat ready for '24. Fix this and we're instantly better. But I bet you will still whinge when we are.

 

[Old Timer]

Seriously. So every second week this season we've had a "blip on the radar" huh? So which is it? Every win we apparently haven't improved by your rationale and every loss apparently just confirms what you're saying? Geez.
If we'd had just ONE more of your "blips on the radar" we'd be safely in the top 8. Just one extra blip dude.

p.s. yesterday's loss was just as discouraging and depressing for me to watch as I'm sure it was for you. But you're blaming the wrong things.

It's. The. Roster. A roster which SF inherited and had to add a few quick "beggars can't be choosers" fixes to be somewhat ready for '24. Fix this and we're instantly better. But I bet you will still whinge when we are.

I agree the roster is a huge issue so why did S F say the things I quoted in the previous post that you responded to?

I am merely holding him responsible for his own statements.

Results this year similar to 2022 and fair to say this roster is marginally better than the 2022 team so where is the improvement I would love for people to set it out in simple point form.

Easy to say improvement against 2023 but that is the wrong measure to use IMO as the coach was already dead in the water and in 2022 people wanted his head

The attack is still hopeless

The defence is worse.

The game plan still abysmal.

Brain farts, mental weakness and the ability to implode still there.

4 measures that would be decent indicators of improvement and I would like to know which ones are better?

 

[hook hook]

I agree the roster is a huge issue so why did S F say the things I quoted in the previous post that you responded to?

I am merely holding him responsible for his own statements.

Results this year similar to 2022 and fair to say this roster is marginally better than the 2022 team so where is the improvement I would love for people to set it out in simple point form.

Easy to say improvement against 2023 but that is the wrong measure to use IMO as the coach was already dead in the water and in 2022 people wanted his head

The attack is still hopeless

The defence is worse.

The game plan still abysmal.

Brain farts, mental weakness and the ability to implode still there.

4 measures that would be decent indicators of improvement and I would like to know which ones are better?

If you’re going to talk about fair measurable indicators, then you should judge next season against 2022. That would be the second year in charge for both coaches and 2 seasons for players to adapt to attacking and defensive structures

 

[Russell Crowe's Band]

More evidence of systemic probs? the Sharks are fielding an NRLW team for the first time this year and they are leading the comp. Thumped us- who've been in the comp for some time- 28-4. Again, better recruitment and coaching.

nah 2nd season for the sharks. going well tho

 

[Old Timer]

If you’re going to talk about fair measurable indicators, then you should judge next season against 2022. That would be the second year in charge for both coaches and 2 seasons for players to adapt to attacking and defensive structures

So no need to hold him accountable to his own KPI’s?

 

[56to66]

I agree the roster is a huge issue so why did S F say the things I quoted in the previous post that you responded to?

I am merely holding him responsible for his own statements.

Results this year similar to 2022 and fair to say this roster is marginally better than the 2022 team so where is the improvement I would love for people to set it out in simple point form.

Easy to say improvement against 2023 but that is the wrong measure to use IMO as the coach was already dead in the water and in 2022 people wanted his head

The attack is still hopeless

The defence is worse.

The game plan still abysmal.

Brain farts, mental weakness and the ability to implode still there.

4 measures that would be decent indicators of improvement and I would like to know which ones are better?

Anthony Griffiths first year 2021 season they finished 11th on 18points, under Shane Flanagan will be 5 wins ahead by end of season, in the NRL 5 wins is not a small margin.
Even the Master coach Wayne Bennett is on par with Shane, this is WB 2nd year with the phins, next year you can Sharpen your knives.

 

[Gomarchin]

We have a bottom 4 roster and we get to see that in action every two weeks when the team plays like they did yesterday.

Flano has done an excellent job to get them where they are but we're still 4-5 first grade players short of being a consistent top 8 team.

 

[hook hook]

So no need to hold him accountable to his own KPI’s?

I didn’t say that, i said if you want to be fair judge both coaches second seasons. You just twist everyones comments to suit your narrative

 

[BLM01]

We have a bottom 4 roster and we get to see that in action every two weeks when the team plays like they did yesterday.

Flano has done an excellent job to get them where they are but we're still 4-5 first grade players short of being a consistent top 8 team.

Yep as I said yesterday I was more worried bench v bench
Molo is our best snd the only main hopper we have but did not really dent the line as much as they did
Pure and simply
We don’t have the depth in the forwards… yet

 

[since77]

I agree the roster is a huge issue so why did S F say the things I quoted in the previous post that you responded to?

I am merely holding him responsible for his own statements.

Results this year similar to 2022 and fair to say this roster is marginally better than the 2022 team so where is the improvement I would love for people to set it out in simple point form.

Easy to say improvement against 2023 but that is the wrong measure to use IMO as the coach was already dead in the water and in 2022 people wanted his head

The attack is still hopeless

The defence is worse.

The game plan still abysmal.

Brain farts, mental weakness and the ability to implode still there.

4 measures that would be decent indicators of improvement and I would like to know which ones are better?

I will agree with you that our defence has been disappointing to say the least. The root of your problem seems to lie with what SF said pre-season.

He said we'd be fitter. He has delivered on that, with the exception of Lawrie, who is one of the worst players I've ever seen stain the red V.

He said we wouldn't beat ourselves (if I'm remembering right). He clearly underestimated the rot that had infected this squad during the McGregor / Griffin years. And yes I completely agree we are a braindead team. So yes failed on that. My opinion is that only wholesale roster turnover will fix that particular problem. It's just too ingrained. Canterbury has rooted out every single player from their losing culture from previous coaches. I think we needed the same even if it meant going backwards this year and releasing Hunt, who has been captain for all of this dreadful period.

He said we'd be resilient. Sometimes we are (Melbourne, 2nd half Gold Coast). Sometimes we're woeful. (Roosters, yesterday). You blame the coach for this one. I blame the roster.

What's a new coach supposed to say in his first preseason? Man!! My roster sucks and we're going to be wildly inconsistent and occasionally get thumped? Or is he going to try to instil some belief and positivity? Of course he's going to try to talk thing up. I honestly think he underestimated how broken mentally this squad was.

So maybe in your eyes he has failed to deliver on what he promised. I think you're not seeing the forest for the trees though with that kind of thinking. Knowing what I knew about the shockingly poor state of our roster in the preseason I would have unhesitatingly signed off on the concept of sitting in 8th spot (even unconvincingly) with 2 rounds to play. Frankly I think we've overachieved based on where we started. And I think in cold hard terms you can measure, we have improved - even if its just that pesky empirical data that has us on substantially more wins than last season.....

 

[since77]

We have a bottom 4 roster and we get to see that in action every two weeks when the team plays like they did yesterday.

Flano has done an excellent job to get them where they are but we're still 4-5 first grade players short of being a consistent top 8 team.

This!!!

 

[BLM01]

I agree the roster is a huge issue so why did S F say the things I quoted in the previous post that you responded to?

I am merely holding him responsible for his own statements.

Results this year similar to 2022 and fair to say this roster is marginally better than the 2022 team so where is the improvement I would love for people to set it out in simple point form.

Easy to say improvement against 2023 but that is the wrong measure to use IMO as the coach was already dead in the water and in 2022 people wanted his head

The attack is still hopeless

The defence is worse.

The game plan still abysmal.

Brain farts, mental weakness and the ability to implode still there.

4 measures that would be decent indicators of improvement and I would like to know which ones are better?

You make us sound like the way we are going this year as coming last and no improvement with the team the coach inherited which is not true
Who cares what happened before thus year because different years different variables need to be considered
If we get in the 8 SF has exceeded all expectations including his own narrative
That’s all that should be measured

 

[56to66]

How would this squad go against this 2008 squad
(1. Ben Hornby, 2. Josh Morris, 3. Mark Gasnier, 4. Matt Cooper, 5. Brett Morris, 6. Rangi Chase 7. Jamie Soward, 8. Jason Ryles, 9. Simon Woolford, 10. Justin Poore, 11. Beau Scott, 12. Ben Creagh 13. Dean Young RES: 14. Ricky Thorby, 15. Dan Hunt, 16. Kirk Reynoldson, 17. Chase Stanley)
that finished 7th?
I thinks that if Flanno get the squad into the Top 8 , he deserves a gold medal.

 

[Lovemedragons]

Boy that is messing up things. Luch at 5/8 does it for me. Nu Brown should be the utility otherwise why did Flanagan bring him here from the SL. Has barely been spotted. Nick Quinn,20, could be promoted to play 5/ 8 or utility which he has been doing in Flegg. This kid had five years in the Pathways before joining Flegg. Failing this, the coach already has a play maker under his nose, Tyrell Sloan. Has 10 try assists to his name and probably just as many near misses.

could try JDB again

 

[Illusion]

Looking at our players , just my opinion ........ All the players that have been around for the past 5 years or so should all be released due to being mentally scared ........

 

[Dragon David]

Looking at our players , just my opinion ........ All the players that have been around for the past 5 years or so should all be released due to being mentally scared ........

Do you mean mentally scared as being afraid or mentally scarred as in suffering emotional trauma or both?

 

[Illusion]

Do you mean mentally scared as being afraid or mentally scarred as in suffering emotional trauma or both?

Mentally scared by Mary and Hook's coaching ........ They are all in a rut

 

[Tiger Shark]

Everyone is so negative. Yes we lost a crucial game, but zoom out, did you even think we’d be in this position in the first place? We played a top 4 team and lost. Wow what a shock after battling for the spoon last year

I think you’ve nailed it.

no offence but you were never beating us yesterday, I did think it’d be closer but you’ve probably done better than most expected.

You’ve recruited Ok and should show more improvement next year. Few more key signings over the next 18 months and the Derby’s will be very different

 

[TheRev]

You cant ignore the roster (and the other 16 teams rosters) when comparing coaches.. the closest comparison would be 2023 Griffin with 2024 Flanagan, which is basically the same roster.. and very very very different results.

I dont even understand what the point of comparing them is though.... the question should be... are we finally moving forward now?... by all metrics thats a yes, and ive heard that internally the existing staff at the club finally feel part of a professional organisation now.. something they never did under previous coaches.