Round 8 v Canberra

[Panther_Daz]

Are we really producing quality juniors?

We are producing solid footballers with a good work ethic who want to be at the club. Unfortunately there is not many superstars and game breakers being produced.

 

[Das Hassler]

Ivan is happy he has 80% of the squad who have come up through the club's system together....that's good for marketing but you also end up with a playing group who could either cover for or are well and trully sick of each other by the time they get to first grade ...the notion that guys who have come up through the ranks play harder for eachother is a bit of a myth in this megabucks age...the growing up good times often also come with jealousies. ..rivalries...wags issues ....it's kind of team sport inbreeding...a culture made up of a mix of the RIGHT people from wherever is a much better idea than players of any personality and character type just because they're local juniors....too much familiarity often breeds ( group) contempt for those trying to coach them....think back for some examples

 

[herbert henry1908]

We are producing solid footballers with a good work ethic who want to be at the club. Unfortunately there is not many superstars and game breakers being produced.

Yep. That’s what I’m driving at, we’re producing decent talent, enough to be a mid level team. But if we want to take the next step we need to be active in the player market.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Towards the bottom.

Hopefully it means we keep the pathways but will go to market if needed. Ivan and Brandy should get who they want in these discussions

That’s not a quote, that’s the journalists take on it.

 

[Das Hassler]

And by the time juniors come good they demand the same money as they could get anywhere else anyway ...they all have the same managers as everyone else out there and the managers use the local junior angle better for themselves than the clubs do...the "the club not needing to go out into the marketplace" makes no sense at all from a talent or $'s standpoint.

 

[Panther_Daz]

Yep. That’s what I’m driving at, we’re producing decent talent, enough to be a mid level team. But if we want to take the next step we need to be active in the player market.

We are literally spending millions of dollars on junior developments, academies etc to produce NRL players from Blacktown to Bathurst, Dharruk to Dubbo.

However at the end of the day our most devastating player and geniune game breaker was developed on cow paddocks in the remote Fiji jungle with no clean drinking water available to him.

 

[Pomoz]

Broncos are perfect example of what not too do. Recruited and paid overs for Milford and Bird. Left with forwards who are barely old enough to drink. Need a good mix out there and developing guys is slow so at times need to recruit to fill holes

A bad recruitment decision in relation to two players doesn't dismiss the legacy of Renouf, Langer, Lazarus, Webke, Waters et al.You need to take a more asian approach in your analysis. Look at 30 years not 30 months. Every club makes bad recruitment decisions. Look at the trends not at single instances.

 

[Pomoz]

Are we really producing quality juniors?

Look at the side right now, only four outside recruits, we’re mostly juniors and we’re struggling to compete.

I’ve felt for a long time the club and it’s fans overestimate the juniors. We produce some good players to be sure, but how many actually go on to be genuine stars?


As mentioned above, as we’ve moved to more juniors, the team has actually gotten worse. Now that could be just a short term aberration, but it’s notable that the best team under Gould’s watch was heavy with recruits.

Not successful? We just made the semi finals four out of five years, I think Gus may have done something right. I can't believe how we forget what has happened in the last five years and focus on a bad start to the season.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Not successful? We just made the semi finals four out of five years, I think Gus may have done something right. I can't believe how we forget what has happened in the last five years and focus on a bad start to the season.

And the best result was from a team with 60% imports.

The juniors coming through as just ok, there’s no real standouts there.

I’m not talking about the bad start to the season, I’m talking about the teams lack of improvement. We’ve stood still for several years now, and guess what that correlated with? More juniors in the team



And of course Gus has done something right, I’m not criticising his whole tenure, I’m criticising his wish to move to 80% juniors.

Nuance

 

[franklin2323]

A bad recruitment decision in relation to two players doesn't dismiss the legacy of Renouf, Anger, Lazarus, Webke, Waters et al.You need to take a more asian approach in your analysis. Look at 30 years not 30 months. Every club makes bad recruitment decisions. Look at the trends not at single instances.

of those guys you mentioned. Lazurus and Walters were developed elsewhere. Even Langer had played Origin before Broncos. 2015 GF team had Milford and Blair developed elsewhere.

So you need a mix

 

[herbert henry1908]

A bad recruitment decision in relation to two players doesn't dismiss the legacy of Renouf, Anger, Lazarus, Webke, Waters et al.You need to take a more asian approach in your analysis. Look at 30 years not 30 months. Every club makes bad recruitment decisions. Look at the trends not at single instances.

Dude, you’re living in the past. Those decisions were over 20 years ago. The broncos strategy hasn’t worked that well this century.

The trend for the broncos has been bad for over a decade now.

 

[Pomoz]

We are literally spending millions of dollars on junior developments, academies etc to produce NRL players from Blacktown to Bathurst, Dharruk to Dubbo.

However at the end of the day our most devastating player and geniune game breaker was developed on cow paddocks in the remote Fiji jungle with no clean drinking water available to him.

But this in itself shows that we are looking outside the Panthers region and into the country areas. The only difference is we are recruiting when they are young. I think there is far too a literal interpretation of what 80% means, making Gus seem like he is stupid. Look at what he did, not the catch phrase of 80%. Particularly since he said "local juniors or debuted with us". That last part is crucial. I don't know where people get the idea that we only develop from the Penrith region. We have signed many players from QLD, NZ and other areas into our junior teams.

Kikau is a perfect example of this, yet you use it to question the policy. He wasn't an established first grader when we signed him. Gus himself stated that if the Penrith region isn't producing players they will recruit elsewhere, the only difference being that he is recruiting at a younger age. Read what he wrote about the Roosters and how they identify young talent and nurture it and their recent success were delivered by majority local juniors. Gus set up the Roosters system, they are doing what we need to do. Albeit they have fewer juniors so must spread the net wider and they find it easier to sign a superstar. In principle though, they are doing what we want to do.

This is not what we have done in the past. If our junior cachment didn't produce the right type of player, we signed a first grader, usually a mediocre journeyman since we can't attract top talent. Roarty, a fading Gilmeister, Purtell, psycho Burns an endless list of mediocrity. I know we did get some good ones too, but 2 in 40 and lengthy stretches without finals football tell you this doesn't work. This is what many people want to go back to. "It'll be different this time because now good players want to sign for us". Eh? When did that happen?

 

[Das Hassler]

We are literally spending millions of dollars on junior developments, academies etc to produce NRL players from Blacktown to Bathurst, Dharruk to Dubbo.

However at the end of the day our most devastating player and geniune game breaker was developed on cow paddocks in the remote Fiji jungle with no clean drinking water available to him.

In some way the NRL should be subsiding. ..or perhaps better said REWARDING the clubs that actively develop the juniors that are the wellpool for the whole game where they don't lose out letting them go ..through much of the last decade all my mob the Tigers got out of warm and fuzzy junior development was having a perpetual knife to the throat by ruthless and cynical managers and a too long and too chumie player clique who thought they ran the club by virtue of coming up through the ranks as juniors...a young guy with an over inflated sense of entitlement usually happens where he's been told how great and important he is every day since he left school...adding to the gene pool of a new club where you need to learn to fit in and EARN your accolades is a good thing....bad things can grow in still water

 

[Pomoz]

Dude, you’re living in the past. Those decisions were over 20 years ago. The broncos strategy hasn’t worked that well this century.

The trend for the broncos has been bad for over a decade now.

They have continued to produce rep players of high quality and made the semi finals 90% of the time. They are a failure are they? I wish we could have some of that.

 

[Pomoz]

of those guys you mentioned. Lazurus and Walters were developed elsewhere. Even Langer had played Origin before Broncos. 2015 GF team had Milford and Blair developed elsewhere.

So you need a mix

That was exactly why I listed a mix. Because that is how the Broncos were successful, topping up juniors with high quality imports.

 

[herbert henry1908]

They have continued to produce rep players of high quality and made the semi finals 90% of the time. They are a failure are they? I wish we could have some of that.

You continue to misrepresent my argument.

I didn't say they've been a failure, I said their trend line has been bad, and it has. As a club they've gone backwards over the last decade.

You were the one that said to look at trends.

 

[herbert henry1908]

That was exactly why I listed a mix. Because that is how the Broncos were successful, topping up juniors with high quality imports.

The Broncos had the whole of the SEQ market to themselves, of course that strategy worked.

But it doesn't work anymore (in terms of winning titles)

 

[herbert henry1908]

But this in itself shows that we are looking outside the Panthers region and into the country areas. The only difference is we are recruiting when they are young. I think there is far too a literal interpretation of what 80% means, making Gus seem like he is stupid. Look at what he did, not the catch phrase of 80%. Particularly since he said "local juniors or debuted with us". That last part is crucial. I don't know where people get the idea that we only develop from the Penrith region. We have signed many players from QLD, NZ and other areas into our junior teams.

Kikau is a perfect example of this, yet you use it to question the policy. He wasn't an established first grader when we signed him. Gus himself stated that if the Penrith region isn't producing players they will recruit elsewhere, the only difference being that he is recruiting at a younger age. Read what he wrote about the Roosters and how they identify young talent and nurture it and their recent success were delivered by majority local juniors. Gus set up the Roosters system, they are doing what we need to do. Albeit they have fewer juniors so must spread the net wider and they find it easier to sign a superstar. In principle though, they are doing what we want to do.

This is not what we have done in the past. If our junior cachment didn't produce the right type of player, we signed a first grader, usually a mediocre journeyman since we can't attract top talent. Roarty, a fading Gilmeister, Purtell, psycho Burns an endless list of mediocrity. I know we did get some good ones too, but 2 in 40 and lengthy stretches without finals football tell you this doesn't work. This is what many people want to go back to. "It'll be different this time because now good players want to sign for us". Eh? When did that happen?

This is a really important point.

We're not recruiting enough experience, instead when we do recruit its mostly youngsters. And we double down on that by often letting our experienced players go.



I don't want to go back to recruiting mediocre players and ignoring juniors, I want to take the excellent work Gus did with the juniors and build upon that by recruiting the right players.

 

[BxTom]

Dude, you’re living in the past. Those decisions were over 20 years ago. The broncos strategy hasn’t worked that well this century.

The trend for the broncos has been bad for over a decade now.

Are you Phil Rothfield or just his ghost writer?

 

[herbert henry1908]

Are you Phil Rothfield or just his ghost writer?