Rugby League in NZ schools

[Bombay Devils RLFC]

Guys - saw this article and thought I would share it.

Shows why RL has struggled in NZ to some extent.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/7182786/A-bit-of-encouragement-doesn-t-hurt

 

[Sam_the_man]

Just you wait till Kia Kaha discovers this filthy lie of an article.

Absolutely accurute article. Principles and teachers have been keeping league out of schools for over 100 years. Those barricades still exist to this day.

 

[Te Kaha]

Just you wait till Kia Kaha discovers this filthy lie of an article.

Absolutely accurute article. Principles and teachers have been keeping league out of schools for over 100 years. Those barricades still exist to this day.

The only lie is your claim the NZRU was responsible for it... or have you now changed that claim?

 

[Sam_the_man]

The only lie is your claim the NZRU was responsible for it... or have you now changed that claim?

At least you're admitting to it this time around and yes the NZRU is responcible for it.

 

[Te Kaha]

At least you're admitting to it this time around and yes the NZRU is responcible for it.

Still maintaining that lie... The NZRU did not instruct any school principle to ban League played from NZ schools. It simply stated that any funds the NZRU gave to the schools could not be used for League only Rugby. If that schoold did so they would lose the NZRU funding.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

And I suppose they didn't ban kids who played RL on the weekend from playing schools RU too?

 

[Te Kaha]

And I suppose they didn't ban kids who played RL on the weekend from playing schools RU too?

No they didnt... Plenty of kids have played Rugby on Saturday and League on Sunday for their club.. I did it.. my boys did it.
The NZRU has never had ANY power over what a school can dictate.

Its unbelieveable what some muppets on here think the NZRU can or cant do.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Why did RL players feel the need to play under fake names in RL so that they weren't banned from RU? To suggest the NZRU had nothing to do with it and even that their hands hands were tied on the matter is laughable.

Vichy scum denying any involvement in their scum activities as usual.

 

[Te Kaha]

Another stupid claim... hardly surprising given its source.

How about some evidence to back it up..

Here is what the independent review of the NZRL concluded was the REAL reason .
http://www.sportnz.org.nz/Documents/media%20releases/NZRL-Independent-Review.pdf

Participation in Rugby League secondary schools competitions is low and there is no plan in place to
address this. Youth player numbers at Clubs are also low. The future involvement in Rugby League
for schools that are currently participating in the secondary schools competitions in Auckland and
Christchurch was found to be entirely dependent upon the teachers who support these teams- if
the teachers leave, the school is unlikely to continue playing Rugby League unless another teacher
puts their hand up to take this on. While some suggested competitive Rugby League within schools​

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was not possible as it competes with Rugby Union, others identified solutions including working
with Principals, supporting teachers, providing coaches and referees, determining the appropriate
window of time/days most suitable to play matches, and demonstrating professionalism in the way
the sport interacts with school personnel. Rugby League needs to find a solution to the pathway for
players through their secondary school years (either through schools or Clubs).
Many reported that development and support programmes for different age groups of players have
come and gone over the years. Programs which were promised have not been rolled out. There is a
strong need for team manager, referee and coach development, with a differential between what​

is required for juniors (e.g. parents as coaches) versus senior competitive games.

 

[miguel de cervantes]

While some suggested competitive Rugby League within schools was not possible as it competes with Rugby Union​

Very suss statement, seems to insuate what others are referring to. Was competitive "insert other sport here" also not possible because it competes with Rugby Union? Why is league singled out here?
​

 

[Usain Bolt]

schoolboy league is a joke in nz, St Paul's are the only rugby league school hence why they won all their finals lastnight

 

[Te Kaha]

Very suss statement, seems to insuate what others are referring to. Was competitive "insert other sport here" also not possible because it competes with Rugby Union? Why is league singled out here?​

Or it could simply mean they both are after the same kids e.g not those who would play soccer or hockey or volleyball...
This was an independant report commisioned by an independent govt agency... IF kids were banned from playing League it WOULD have been mentioned.. despite what others on here claim the NZRU doesnt control the NZ govt.

 

[taipan]

Another stupid claim... hardly surprising given its source.

How about some evidence to back it up..

Here is what the independent review of the NZRL concluded was the REAL reason .
http://www.sportnz.org.nz/Documents/media releases/NZRL-Independent-Review.pdf

Participation in Rugby League secondary schools competitions is low and there is no plan in place to
address this. Youth player numbers at Clubs are also low. The future involvement in Rugby League
for schools that are currently participating in the secondary schools competitions in Auckland and
Christchurch was found to be entirely dependent upon the teachers who support these teams- if
the teachers leave, the school is unlikely to continue playing Rugby League unless another teacher
puts their hand up to take this on. While some suggested competitive Rugby League within schools​

was not possible as it competes with Rugby Union, others identified solutions including working
with Principals, supporting teachers, providing coaches and referees, determining the appropriate
window of time/days most suitable to play matches, and demonstrating professionalism in the way
the sport interacts with school personnel. Rugby League needs to find a solution to the pathway for
players through their secondary school years (either through schools or Clubs).
Many reported that development and support programmes for different age groups of players have
come and gone over the years. Programs which were promised have not been rolled out. There is a
strong need for team manager, referee and coach development, with a differential between what​

is required for juniors (e.g. parents as coaches) versus senior competitive games.

The date of that revue 2009 ??? About as up to date a brick phone.

 

[Te Kaha]

The date of that revue 2009 ??? About as up to date a brick phone.

A three year old "revue" is out of date in a discussion on the supposed historic injustices that the NZRU was to have perpetrated on League in NZ???? are you kidding????

 

[miguel de cervantes]

Or it could simply mean they both are after the same kids e.g not those who would play soccer or hockey or volleyball...
This was an independant report commisioned by an independent govt agency... IF kids were banned from playing League it WOULD have been mentioned.. despite what others on here claim the NZRU doesnt control the NZ govt.

So what? If a bunch of kids are built for league, are good at league and want to play league they can't because, well, rugby union needs them and the fact a league team exists at the school may just attract other kids that would have played union. I'm sorry, but a school, a public school especially, should cater to its students' wishes, not those of the indoctrinated PE teacher. To me the statement is clear - league was not often welcome at the school. I seriously, seriously doubt other sports suffer from the same prejudices.

I don't claim that the NZRU controls the NZ govt. They would certainly have an influence over schools though, espcially private schools. NZRU - "The school wants to start a league team, OK, no more funding from us then". As simple as that. Influence exerted. It is not illegal, but doesn't conform very well with the fairplay ideals union loves to spout on about.

 

[Te Kaha]

So what? If a bunch of kids are built for league, are good at league and want to play league they can't because, well, rugby union needs them and the fact a league team exists at the school may just attract other kids that would have played union.

Thats an assumption with no evidence to support it. Its all well and good for a kid or bunch of kids to want to play League. What if no teacher or parent knows the rules, can coach or even referee??? should it be up to the school to sort this out or the controlling sport body.
The NZRU provides coaching material, coaching supprt AND referees to the schol. The NZRL has not. is this the schools fault?

I'm sorry, but a school, a public school especially, should cater to its students' wishes, not those of the indoctrinated PE teacher. To me the statement is clear - league was not often welcome at the school. I seriously, seriously doubt other sports suffer from the same prejudices.

You are making an assumption. A school SHOULD cater to its students wishes if it can. Should a school spend money on setting up a League program if only 5 or 6 want to play it? or should it say to those kids they should join the loacal club?

I don't claim that the NZRU controls the NZ govt. They would certainly have an influence over schools though, espcially private schools. NZRU - "The school wants to start a league team, OK, no more funding from us then". As simple as that. Influence exerted.

SO the NZRU doesnt want the money it gives to schools used for League?? so what?? would you expect the NRL to be happy if it gave sydney schools millions which were used on AFL programs??

 

[miguel de cervantes]

Thats an assumption with no evidence to support it. Its all well and good for a kid or bunch of kids to want to play League. What if no teacher or parent knows the rules, can coach or even referee??? should it be up to the school to sort this out or the controlling sport body.
The NZRU provides coaching material, coaching supprt AND referees to the schol. The NZRL has not. is this the schools fault?


You are making an assumption. A school SHOULD cater to its students wishes if it can. Should a school spend money on setting up a League program if only 5 or 6 want to play it? or should it say to those kids they should join the loacal club?

SO the NZRU doesnt want the money it gives to schools used for League?? so what?? would you expect the NRL to be happy if it gave sydney schools millions which were used on AFL programs??

I'm not doubting in some cases the support from NZRL was not there, but in the survey teachers specifically cited competition with union rendering league teams impossible. I state again I doubt any other sports, say badminton and tennis, lacrosse and hockey etc. ever came up against this sort of problem. Does girls basketball face prejudice in NZ schools because of netball?

Nowhere did I say the NZRU would give money to schools who would then spend it on league. It doesn't even come into the equation. The NZRU would only need to threaten to cut off funding to the school union team or bar them from competing and this would be enough to prevent the formation of a league team.

 

[Te Kaha]

I'm not doubting in some cases the support from NZRL was not there, but in the survey teachers specifically cited competition with union rendering league teams impossible. I state again I doubt any other sports, say badminton and tennis, lacrosse and hockey etc. ever came up against this sort of problem. Does girls basketball face prejudice in NZ schools because of netball?

You are assuming competition wasdue to predjudice. That is not sujested anywhere. it could simply mean that more kids wanted to play Rugby instead of League.. if only a handful of kids out of a class of 30 wanted to play League while the rest Rugby the "competition" from Rugby prevented the formation of the League team... find a direct quote that backs up your point and i will cede the point. there hasnt been one so far.

Nowhere did I say the NZRU would give money to schools who would then spend it on league. It doesn't even come into the equation. The NZRU would only need to threaten to cut off funding to the school union team or bar them from competing and this would be enough to prevent the formation of a league team.

And yet if this scenerio where to have ever happened it would make tabloid news in a heartbeat.. the NZRL would have it in fromt of the govt demanding action... and yet no such reports... unless you think the NZRU can now also silence school principles and teachers as well?

 

[miguel de cervantes]

You are assuming competition wasdue to predjudice. That is not sujested anywhere. it could simply mean that more kids wanted to play Rugby instead of League [sic].. if only a handful of kids out of a class of 30 wanted to play League while the rest Rugby the "competition" from Rugby prevented the formation of the League team... find a direct quote that backs up your point and i will cede the point. there hasnt been one so far.

OK, once again here is the quote.

While some suggested competitive Rugby League within schools was not possible as it competes with Rugby Union

The teachers did not cite that more kids wanted to play union, nor did they cite a lack of motiviation or numbers. The simply said that playing rugby league competes with union thus this precluded rugby league teams. It can't be any clearer.

And yet if this scenerio where to have ever happened it would make tabloid news in a heartbeat.. the NZRL would have it in fromt of the govt demanding action... and yet no such reports... unless you think the NZRU can now also silence school principles and teachers as well?

How about some more quotes from your independant government report:

Rugby League now had its sights firmly set on New Zealand; however the New Zealand Rugby Union’s infiltration into every aspect of New Zealand society, government and business would prove a lot tougher than the unions of Australia or England. The NZRU took it upon themselves to pressure potential converts, officials, sponsors and ground owners into not giving the Rugby League upstarts any room to move.

Rugby League failed to attain dominance in New Zealand because of the strong and powerful opposition by the New Zealand Rugby Union. As a means of undermining Rugby League’s growing popularity and interest, the New Zealand Rugby Union strongly promoted an amateur ethos. It was used to denigrate and stifle the game of Rugby League in New Zealand with Rugby League being purported as ‘veiled professionalism’. Also, as in England, there was a high degree of prejudice in regard to the mainly working class participation in the game of Rugby League in New Zealand.

You only have to look at how the Halberg award judges completely ignored the efforts of the Kiwis in winning the rugby league world cup to understand that predjudices exist in New Zealand against rugby league.

 

[Te Kaha]

OK, once again here is the quote.


The teachers did not cite that more kids wanted to play union, nor did they cite a lack of motiviation or numbers. The simply said that playing rugby league competes with union thus this precluded rugby league teams. It can't be any clearer.

And yet you state this:
"can't because, well, rugby union needs them and the fact a league team exists at the school may just attract other kids that would have played union"
There is no suggestion of anything other than "competition" prevents it. You are aserting that it is unfair competition when nothing such has been suggested.

How about some more quotes from your independant government report:

"Pressure"? I have no doubt some of it was underhanded in the past but i note that certain league authorites in Sydney are putting "pressure" onto a council about about an Historic ground being used for AFL. All organisations apply "pressure" to furthur their goals...

As yet i havent seen any evidence of kids being banned from playing League at school due to this "pressure"... which is being claimed in this thread... There is clear evidence of it happening against adults in the banning of "professional" players but there isnt any to say it happened in schools.. other than assertions on here.

You only have to look at how the Halberg award judges completely ignored the efforts of the Kiwis in winning the rugby league world cup to understand that predjudices exist in New Zealand against rugby league.

That was a travisty.. but how is that Rugby or the NZRUs fault? there are predjudices in Aussie against Rugby , League and AFL, you only have to look at this board for proof of that.. but a sport or organisation cant be held at fault for individuals predjudices, thats where personal responsibilty comes in... it should also be noted that those self same Halberg awards hadnt awarded the Supreme award to the All Blacks for 24 years so its hadly because of Rugby that that predjudice existed at the Halbergs.