Rugby World Cup - Most Overrated Event in World Sport?

[Thomas]

But teams don't have to beat NZ to win the RWC. The winning teams in 1999, 2003 and 2007 didn't have to play the All Blacks. Previous form has nothing to do with it. To say it isn't competitive is being spiteful. Argentina were generally pretty shit but in the last world cup they beat France twice and ended up coming third.

Fiji even made the finals and only just got beaten by South Africa.

 

[Parra]

Their is a great culture and interest for rugby in Ireland, Wales and Scotland (and to a lesser extent Argentina, Samoa and Fiji)


!

You should go to Fiji. Only two sports are discussed there. 15's & 7's. This includes the front page of the paper, the back pages and a lot of what is between them. Signposts to villages include mention of players from the village who have made the national team.

 

[Tommy Smith]

I understand that.

My apologies, allow to me rephrase that part. There is a great culture and interest for Rugby in Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Samoa and Fiji. However, its fair to say that the Pacific Island nations (save for Samoa's stunning upset of Australia) are still a long, long way behind even the UK nations in terms of professionalism and performance.

They add alot of excitement to the tournament with their flair play and hard hitting, but in terms of performance they have proven to be little more than cannon fodder.

I think it's fair to say that in terms of carnival atmosphere, the Rugby World Cup is a clear second (albeit a distant second) behind Football as far as world team sporting events go. But in terms of competitiveness, it's only marginally ahead of the Rugby League World Cup and even behind the Cricket World Cup.

 

[Parra]

The Pacific Islands have been stuck in an economic time warp for over 20 years. Things were built in the 80's, but those same things have only decayed since. It is a terrible shame. Fijian rugby sides were more competitive. Now they compete in 7's, but professionalism of the main game has left them behind. They have not lost ground due to a lack of enthusiasm or effort - it is the professional era that has created this gap. With the economic malaise in the country this sort of gap was inevitable anyway. Rugby is not alone in this respect - increasing professionalism at the top has seen grass roots sports either neglected or treated with disdain.

The RWC redresses some of these issues, with match ups made based on a sporting tournament format, and not just TV ratings.

 

[Parra]

Samoa's upset win over Australia counts.

 

[Mint Condition]

I think you make some fair points, but think of this. The lowest ranked team in the tournament is either Russia or Namibia (can't be bothered looking it up). Both would have some chance of beating a team like Fiji or Tonga. Both Fiji and Tonga would have a fair chance of beating a team like Wales or Ireland, who would in turn have some chance of beating Australia or New Zealand. So the level of competitiveness is only a few steps removed from best to worst. I think there's probably 4 tiers with teams in every tier capable of upsetting a team in the tier above. And only Russia and Namibia are clearly in the 4th...in 2003 there were probably 5 or 6 in that 4th tier.

The All Blacks do have an exceptional record, almost unmatched in world sport really. They have lost to Wales though...not for ages but they have. They've also drawn against Argentina. It's quite incredible that they've never lost to a number of pretty decent teams though. I agree that teams like Wales, Italy, Argentina, Samoa etc would have next to no chance against New Zealand at the moment - they just don't seem to slip up against inferior teams...but I think they would have a chance against Australia or France or South Africa etc if everything went right for them and any of those teams can beat New Zealand. The draw can influence so much in a tournament. In a knock out tournament 2nd tier teams do have some small chance if they get the right match ups and the teams they can't beat get taken out by teams they can.

It's pretty rare though...I mean it never happens in the soccer world cup either. Only 8 teams have won out of 19 tournaments. Rugby world cup has 4 different winners over 6 tournaments so far...so a better ratio.

 

[IanG]

The Pacific Islands have been stuck in an economic time warp for over 20 years. Things were built in the 80's, but those same things have only decayed since. It is a terrible shame. Fijian rugby sides were more competitive. Now they compete in 7's, but professionalism of the main game has left them behind. They have not lost ground due to a lack of enthusiasm or effort - it is the professional era that has created this gap. With the economic malaise in the country this sort of gap was inevitable anyway. Rugby is not alone in this respect - increasing professionalism at the top has seen grass roots sports either neglected or treated with disdain.

The RWC redresses some of these issues, with match ups made based on a sporting tournament format, and not just TV ratings.

Not to mention that New Zealand keep poaching any talented players from that part of the world

 

[Thomas]

Not to mention that New Zealand keep poaching any talented players from that part of the world

There aren't any poached Islanders in the All Blacks. In fact, Australia is kind of leading in this area.

Plenty of Islanders play in professional comps though. I think every player in the Samoan team that beat Australia has been playing in either the Super 15 or in Europe. The talent is there. The issue is, they don't get a chance to play together as a unit apart from comps like this due to clubs putting pressure on them etc. Still, if you were a talented Islander what would you rather do? Play park footy in Suva or play for a huge Euro team?

 

[Parra]

Fiji beat Wales in the 2007 RWC and were considered unlucky against the eventual winners South Africa.

Wales tested the eventual winners England in the QF in 2003.

The idea that these matches don't count or that the tournament is not important is ridiculous.

 

[Usain Bolt]

Not to mention that New Zealand keep poaching any talented players from that part of the world

Epic fail mate, NZ is the biggest exporter of players

http://www.rugby365.com/tournaments/rwc/news/2780664.htm

Players born in other countries
Argentina: All born in Argentina


Australia: Dan Vickerman (Cape Town, South Africa), Radike Samo (Nadi, Fiji), Will Genia (Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea), Stephen Moore (Khamis, Saudi Arabia), David Pocock (Messina, South Africa), Quade Cooper (Auckland, New Zealand), Digby Ioane (Wellington, New Zealand)


Canada: Nanyak Dala (Jos, Nigeria), DTH (Daniel Tailliferre Hauman) van der Merwe (Worcester, South Africa), Jeremy Kyne (Wellington, New Zealand), Jamie Mackenzie (Troon, Scotland), James Pritchard (Parkes, Australia)


England: Joe Simpson (Sydney, Australia), Delon Armitage (San Fernando, Trinidad & Tobago), Alex Corbisiero (New York, USA), Matt Stevens (Durban, South Africa), Dylan Hartley (Rotorua, New Zealand), Simon Shaw (Nairobi, Kenya), Shontayne Hape (Auckland, New Zealand), Manu Tuilagi (Moto'otua, Samoa)


Fiji: Nicky Little (Tokoroa, New Zealand), Campese Ma'afu (Sydney, Australia), Deacon Manu (New Plymouth, New Zealand), Vitori Tomu Buatava (Melbourne, Australia), Michael Tagicakibau (Auckland, New Zealand)


France: Thierry Dusautoir (Abidjan, Côte d'Ivoire), Fulgence Ouedraogo (Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso)


Georgia: All Georgian-born.


Ireland: Ronan O'Gara (San Diego, USA), Isaac Boss (Tokoroa, New Zealand), Jamie Heaslip (Tiberias, Israel), Tom Court (Brisbane, Australia)


Italy: Carlo Del Fava (Umtata, South Africa), Corniel van Zyl (Nelspruit, South Africa), Quintin Geldenhuys (Klerksdorp, South Africa), Martin Castrogiovanni (Paraná, Argentina), Pablo Canavosio (Córdoba, Argentina), Luciano Orquera (Córdoba, Argentina), Gonzalo Garcia (Mendoza, Argentina), Robert Barbieri (Toronto, Canada), Sergio Parisse (Mar del Plata, Argentina), Gonzalo Canale (Córdoba, Argentina), Luke McLean (Townsville, Australia)
Japan: Luke Thompson (Christchurch, New Zealand), Michael Leitch (Burwood, New Zealand), Ryukoliniasi Holani (Nuku'alofa, Tonga), Shaun Webb (Blenheim, New Zealand), Justin Ives (Mosgiel, New Zealand), Sione Talikavili Vatuvei (Nuku'alofa, Tonga), James Arlidge (Hamilton, New Zealand), Murray Williams (Lower Hutt, New Zealand), Ryan Nicholas (Broken Hill, Australia), Alisi Tupuailai (Manunu, Samoa)


Namibia: Jacques Nieuwenhuis (Brakpan, South Africa), Piet van Zyl (Worcester, South Africa), Danie Dames (Pretoria, South Africa), Chrysander Botha (Walvis Bay, South Africa), Conrad Marais (Walvis Bay, South Africa)
NB At the time of their birth Walvis Bay was South African territory.


New Zealand: Mils Muliaina (Salelesi, Samoa), Ben Franks (Frankston, Australia), Jerome Kaino (Tutuila, Samoa), Isaia Toeava (Moto'otua, Samoa)


Romania: All Romania born.


Russia: Adam Byrnes (Sydney, Australia), Vyacheslav Grachev (Tashkent, Uzbekistan)


Samoa: Census Johnston (Auckland, New Zealand), Anthony Perenise (Wellington, New Zealand), Olé Avei (Wellington, New Zealand), Daniel Leo (Palmerston North, New Zealand), Kane Thompson (Paraparaumu, New Zealand), Kahn Fotuali'i (Auckland, New Zealand), Jeremy Sua (Wellington, New Zealand), Tusi Pisi (Auckland, New Zealand), Sailosi Tagicakibau (Auckland, New Zealand), James So'oialo (Wellington, New Zealand), Ti'i Paulo (Christchurch, New Zealand), Filipo Lavea Levi (Hamilton, New Zealand), Junior Poluleuligaga (Auckland, New Zealand), Tasesa Lavea (Taihape, New Zealand), Paul Williams (Auckland, New Zealand)


Scotland: John Barclay (Hong Kong), Nathan Hines (Wagga Wagga, Australia), Dan Parks (Hornsby, Australia), Jim Hamilton (Swindon, England), Ruaridh Jackson (Northampton, England), Max Evans (Torquay, England), Graeme Morrison( Hong Kong)


South Africa: Tendai Mtawarira (Harare, Zimbabwe)


Tonga: Tukulua Lokotui (Auckland, New Zealand), Kurt Morath (Takapuna, New Zealand), Alipate Fatafehi (Sigatoka, Fiji), Ephraim Taukafa (Auckland, New Zealand), Joseph Tuineau (Suva, Fiji), Thomas Palu (Wellington, New Zealand), Andrew Ma'ilei (Auckland, New Zealand), William Helu (Otahuhu, New Zealand), Siale Piutau (Auckland, New Zealand)


USA: Takudzwa Ngwenya (Harare, Zimbabwe), Iñaki Basauri (Monterre, Mexico), JJ Gagiano (Cape Town, South Africa), Matekitonga Moeakiola (Vaini, Tonga), Valenise Malifa (Pago Pago, American Samoa), Hayden Smith (Penrith, Australia), Tai Enosa (Faga'alu, American Samoa), Andrew Suniula (Pago Pago, American Samoa), James Paterson (Christchurch, New Zealand), Tim Usasz (Brisbane, Australia), Junior Sifa (Faga'alu, American Samoa), Roland Suniula (Pago Pago, American Samoa)


Wales: Luke Charteris (Camborne, England), Danny Lydiate (Salford, England), Toby Faletau (Tofoa, Tonga), Jonathan Davies (Solihull, England), George North (King's Lynn, England)


Importers and Exporters
Importers
15: Samoa (all from New Zealand)
12: USA
11: Italy
10: Japan
9: Tonga
8: England
7: Australia, Scotland
5: Canada, Fiji, Namibia, Wales
4: Ireland, New Zealand
2: France, Russia
1: South Africa
0: Argentina, Georgia, Romania
Exporters
38: New Zealand
13: Australia, South Africa
6: Argentina, England
5: American Samoa, Samoa
4: Tonga
3: Fiji
2: Hong Kong, USA, Zimbabwe
1: Burkina Faso, Canada, Cote d'Ivoire, Israel, Kenya, Mexico, Scotland, Uzbekistan
0: France, Georgia, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Namibia, Romania, Russia, Wales
New Zealand export by far the most. 15 New Zealand-born players play for Samoa. Three Samoan- born players play for New Zealand.

 

[Thomas]

Poaching talent means poaching talented established footballers. It would be interesting to see that list with the players who moved to that country at an early age taken out.

For Australia: Only Dan Vickerman and Radike Samo could be called a poach. The rest moved to Australia when they were very young or in their teens.

 

[abpanther]

So is this whole tournament on free to air?

 

[Usain Bolt]

Poaching talent means poaching talented established footballers. It would be interesting to see that list with the players who moved to that country at an early age taken out.

For Australia: Only Dan Vickerman and Radike Samo could be called a poach. The rest moved to Australia when they were very young or in their teens.

Well then NZ haven't poached anyone in that case, all those players learnt their rugby in NZ and came through the NZ systems.

 

[Butters]

Someone must've forgot to tell Romania it's just a 5 nations tournament. Barely beaten 34-24 by Scotland who were $1.01 favourites.

 

[Knownothing]

So is this whole tournament on free to air?

Not in Australia. The Wallabies games will be shown live in some states.

 

[ceagle]

We actually have a contest here between Japan and France

 

[sheepbender]

Ive been watching games today, and sure the favourites have won, but the minnows have played far better than 4 years ago, or even 8 years ago.. Romania played really well against Scotland, Namibia probably had their best performance, scored a couple of tries against Fiji..And Japan nearly had France, til their fitness got the better of them..
Rugby does a lot of things better than League, and thats promoting an International game, sure these teams tend to get flogged, but the experience helps them improve and come back stronger..
Both Sports have been around nearly just as long, but Leagues a long way behind Rugby in terms of the International game, International League is pointless, State of Origin is the pinnacle of the sport..
And like the person said above me, I love watching lower nations play each other, I also cant wait for USA v Russia, itll be a cracker, all that history..

 

[sheepbender]

Poaching talent means poaching talented established footballers. It would be interesting to see that list with the players who moved to that country at an early age taken out.

For Australia: Only Dan Vickerman and Radike Samo could be called a poach. The rest moved to Australia when they were very young or in their teens.

You could say Quade Coopers a poach, but then again no one else would have him.. So he took his only chance..

 

[Parra]

Japan game was very entertaining. They drew France into a loose, open game and they almost got away with it.

 

[Butters]

France barely ahead of Japan 21-25 with 10 minutes to go. Yeah those minor nations are just making up the numbers... :lol: