Rumoured and Confirmed signings - Part 4

[franklin2323]

It’s fairly normal for a new coach. Brisbane already let go a rep centre, rep halfback this season. Daresay there will be more from brizzy looking for new clubs after this season. Madge doing the same at the tigers.

Yeah I expected it. Better now and getting an Ivan built roster than wasting more years

 

[martielang]

It’s fairly normal for a new coach. Brisbane already let go a rep centre, rep halfback this season. Daresay there will be more from brizzy looking for new clubs after this season. Madge doing the same at the tigers.

Different situations though. Cleary was brought in to win us a comp, not re-build the player roster again.

Hook was sacked because we apparently underperformed the last few years, which would mean our squad was fine given we were a bees dick from making the final 4 each of the years.

So either we weren’t underperforming & Hook did a great job, or it’s an obvious knee jerk reaction from a coach looking for more time.

 

[TheFrog]

We haven't had much size in our backline for yrs and we are trying to offload our fastest and biggest back in blake its crazy.

Not comfortable on the bus it seems. Ivan has his fair share of this wherever he goes.

So either we weren’t underperforming & Hook did a great job

This season has clear parallels with 2017, results the same almost round for round in fact, and IC might yet escape 2019 with his reputation as a coach somewhat intact, but nonetheless, Griffin has to be given credit for the team he sent out for almost three years.

Hook was sacked because he didn't get along with Gus, nothing more and nothing less. It weakened Gus to the point that he was next through the big revolving door.

 

[betcats]

Different situations though. Cleary was brought in to win us a comp, not re-build the player roster again.

Hook was sacked because we apparently underperformed the last few years, which would mean our squad was fine given we were a bees dick from making the final 4 each of the years.

So either we weren’t underperforming & Hook did a great job, or it’s an obvious knee jerk reaction from a coach looking for more time.

The broncos were in a grand final a couple years ago, started the season as top 2 or 3 premiership favourites so I think it’s similar to us. They certainly aren’t rebuilding and didn’t hire Seibold for that reason.

We aren’t actually a high turnover club. 4 or 5 players isn’t a rebuild. It’s not 1990, I think some of you need to get realistic about this player movement because it’s part of the game now and driven by players as much as clubs.

 

[chrisD]

Griffin didn't just underperform with a premiership window team he inherited, he f**king mangled it through his inability to manage players to the point where it is no longer a premiership capable roster and needs to be rebuilt.

 

[franklin2323]

Different situations though. Cleary was brought in to win us a comp, not re-build the player roster again.

Hook was sacked because we apparently underperformed the last few years, which would mean our squad was fine given we were a bees dick from making the final 4 each of the years.

So either we weren’t underperforming & Hook did a great job, or it’s an obvious knee jerk reaction from a coach looking for more time.

I rate Hook over Ivan but no way this was a top 4 roster given the holes in it... Gus may of thought that but he was too close to it.

We overachieved massively under hook. Look at the spine player turnover for example. Key positions we needed stability we didn't get

 

[franklin2323]

The broncos were in a grand final a couple years ago, started the season as top 2 or 3 premiership favourites so I think it’s similar to us. They certainly aren’t rebuilding and didn’t hire Seibold for that reason.

We aren’t actually a high turnover club. 4 or 5 players isn’t a rebuild. It’s not 1990, I think some of you need to get realistic about this player movement because it’s part of the game now and driven by players as much as clubs.

Not the amount of players for me but the position they play and how long was left on the deal is poor planning

 

[betcats]

Griffin didn't just underperform with a premiership window team he inherited, he f**king mangled it through his inability to manage players to the point where it is no longer a premiership capable roster and needs to be rebuilt.

Yep he started a season premiership favourites and still turned over 5 or 6 players that season. I mean we are on track to turnover less than griffin did every season he was in charge.

 

[martielang]

The broncos were in a grand final a couple years ago, started the season as top 2 or 3 premiership favourites so I think it’s similar to us. They certainly aren’t rebuilding and didn’t hire Seibold for that reason.

We aren’t actually a high turnover club. 4 or 5 players isn’t a rebuild. It’s not 1990, I think some of you need to get realistic about this player movement because it’s part of the game now and driven by players as much as clubs.

I think they did hire Seibold to install a brand new attitude in the club & take the club in another direction. So you're right, probably not a re-build but i think it's a different situation to ours.

4 or 5 players under long term contracts, that's a re-build or at least a major renovation. If we include Grant, Katoa, Fui, Sele etc., the out of contract players (turnover of these players are the norm) then we'll be closer to 10 at the end of the season.

 

[betcats]

I think they did hire Seibold to install a brand new attitude in the club & take the club in another direction. So you're right, probably not a re-build but i think it's a different situation to ours.

4 or 5 players under long term contracts, that's a re-build or at least a major renovation. If we include Grant, Katoa, Fui, Sele etc., the out of contract players (turnover of these players are the norm) then we'll be closer to 10 at the end of the season.

That kind of turnover is stock standard across the league. We have moved on Dallin so far, that's it. A couple of others might go, Grant retired and some off contract players likely wont be re-signed. I don't see that as rebuilding, its the usual tweaking of a squad that happens at every club every year almost.

 

[martielang]

Griffin didn't just underperform with a premiership window team he inherited, he f**king mangled it through his inability to manage players to the point where it is no longer a premiership capable roster and needs to be rebuilt.

What do TAB odds have to do with anything?

If he managed the players as badly as you've said, why aren't all these players performing better at other clubs/coaches or performing better under Cleary? Simple fact is, the best most of them have played was under Griffin despite what they may have thought about him.

 

[betcats]

What do TAB odds have to do with anything?

If he managed the players as badly as you've said, why aren't all these players performing better at other clubs or performing better under Cleary? Simple fact is, the best most of them have played was under Griffin despite what they may have thought about him.

So far this is true, a bit premature to call it settled though it could easily change.

 

[martielang]

That kind of turnover is stock standard across the league. We have moved on Dallin so far, that's it. A couple of others might go, Grant retired and some off contract players likely wont be re-signed. I don't see that as rebuilding, its the usual tweaking of a squad that happens at every club every year almost.

I agree, that's why I said it's the norm.

I'm more talking about the 4 or 5 players being shopped around. Each with a couple of years left on their contract & staple members of the side that apparently underperformed.

 

[betcats]

I agree, that's why I said it's the norm.

I'm more talking about the 4 or 5 players being shopped around. Each with a couple of years left on their contract & staple members of the side that apparently underperformed.

Maloney, Waqa. Jack, RCG have been rumoured, Who else? Which of those players have been in good form this season and are on good value deals for the club? We will probably find takers for two of them at best anyway. I mean it seems like some of you are basing criticisms on things that haven't actually happened or fallacies like we turn over more players than other clubs.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Well that's your opinion. Gus has won two premierships at two different clubs and built a dynasty at the Roosters. I will back his view on how to run a successful club over most other people. You say changing players is not a recipe for success but many successful coaches advocate turnover to keep the team vital and dynamic. Alex Ferguson, the most successful coach in the history of the EPL was an advocate of changing the roster.

I say changing players at the *rate* & *experience* we are is not a recipe for success, not just changing players full stop.

As for experience, I agree you need experience, but you don't hold onto mediocrity, no matter how much experience they have. The trouble is we then run into the age old problem at the Panthers. Nobody wants to sign for us because of where we are, our status, our lack of glamour, history and a world class coach. It will be even more so now we have Dave's mate and Dave doing the negotiating to attract players. There is no way Merrin, Soward or Tamou come to the Panthers without Gus. We will be lucky to get the Bulldogs cast offs at the moment and they are stone, motherless last. It's juniors or bust for us.

Mediocre experienced players can be valuable to a team, not everyone out there can be a superstar. But I’d also say we’re not just letting go of mediocre players, we’ve let go on some good players too.


In terms of Soward, Merrin, Tamou not coming here without Gould, that may be true. But it’s not just about signing superstars from other clubs. Some of Gus’ best signings weren’t actually the stars, they were guys like Whare, Mansour, Kikau, Peachey, Seg,

We actually have signed guys like that in the past - Girdler, Whatuira, Kingston, Roberts, Sattler, Galuvao, Simmons.

These are the type of signings I’m talking about, I never expect us to be a player in the market for superstars. Hell not many stars even change teams at all.

 

[herbert henry1908]

And so what? We have made the semis four out of five years. We have won a number of titles in the lower grades. We have turnover and.....

I never said everything Gould did was bad, there’s plenty of good things he’s done. Much more positive than bad. But those positive things he did were the changes he put in place early. The way he went about building a first grade squad with constant player turnover, 5 year deals etc is not conducive to success. I’m defining success as competing for a title, beating top 4 teams, not limping into the top 8.

The turnover is an issue because inexperienced teams don’t win titles. Constantly going back to square one.

 

[herbert henry1908]

There was an article written on nrl.con in feb that said we are mid range for squad turn over since 2016.

https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/02/03/stat-attack-your-clubs-player-turnover-since-2016/

It’s not just the rate we change players, it’s that the players we ship out are often the most experienced in the squad. So we’re constantly going back to youth.

Merrin
Peachey
DWZ
Segeyaro
Moylan

Now possibly Blake

All these guys have moved on for different reasons, but we need to find a way to convert 80 game players into 200 game players.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I agree, that's why I said it's the norm.

I'm more talking about the 4 or 5 players being shopped around. Each with a couple of years left on their contract & staple members of the side that apparently underperformed.

I’d love to see the stats on teams with players that don’t complete their deals, I suspect we’d be high on that list.

 

[Pomoz]

I say changing players at the *rate* we are is not a recipe for success, not changing players full stop.

Well I did say "it is a question of degree", so we are in agreement with that. So far, besides Moylan, we have not missed one single player we have let go in the alleged "high turnover" to a significant degree. Api, TMM, Segeyaro are all good players, but not great players and certainly not worth losing any sleep over.

But you ignore my comments about the starting position. You can't be stable if you are starting with a poor spine. The Roosters will be on their third halfback in 4 years next year. Coupled with a new fullback and a new five eighth the Roosters have turned over most of their spine in four years. Because of their status, they are able to sign proven performers like Tedesco and Keary whereas we get old stagers like Soward and Wallace and have also tried a few juniors. Meanwhile, we have at least been competitive as we have looked for a quality spine to take the club forward.

You can't reduce turnover until you get something worth holding onto. Our red zone attacking stats over the last four years highlight this in dayglo orange. Whether Cleary is worth holding on to is open to debate. I think if we complement him with the right players he can succeed, albeit not as a star $1m halfback.

 

[OldPanther]

Well I did say "it is a question of degree", so we are in agreement with that. So far, besides Moylan, we have not missed one single player we have let go in the alleged "high turnover" a significant degree. Api, TMM, Segeyaro are all good players, but not great players and certainly not worth losing any sleep over.

But you ignore my comments about the starting position. You can't be stable if you are starting with a poor spine. The Roosters will be on their third halfback in 4 years next year. Coupled with a new fullback and a new five eight the Roosters have turned over most of their spine in four years. Because of their status, they are able to sign proven performers like Tedesco and Keary whereas we get old stagers like Soward and Wallace and have also tried a few juniors. Meanwhile, we have at least been competitive as we have looked for a quality spine to take the club forward.

You can't reduce turnover until you get something worth holding onto. Our red zone attacking stats over the last four years highlight this in dayglo orange. Whether Cleary is worth holding on to is open to debate. I think if we complement him with the right players he can succeed, albeit not as a star $1m halfback.

That's why it HAS to be juniors for us. The ones we want are more likely to stay. Just a matter of finding the right ones in the right positions.