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Rumoured Targets 3

Mr_Knightside

Juniors
Messages
2,375
The idea that a team can't function with out a play-making 5/8 is crazy.

There are plenty of successful teams in the comp who have a hard running 5/8 who don't necessarily have a great kicking game. Michael Morgan at the Cowboys is a good example, he hardly does any kicking for them. Also Blake Austin at Canberra, he just gets the ball and runs it most of the time and while he can kick it's not one of his real strengths.

That being said the strategy of playing Bird at 5/8 won't work without a halfback with a solid kicking/passing skill set and the ability to organize the team around the park. Hopefully Brock Lamb will develop into this kind of player, if not then we'll need to hit the market for a half, this is assuming Hodko's form doesn't improve and he's out the door at the end of 2018.
 

Mr_Knightside

Juniors
Messages
2,375
Agree. But investing 1.5mil a year on two kids isn't the right thing to do IMO.

Mate when you're asking good players to come and play for a team that has won 2 games in the last 18 months then you've gotta pay them the big bucks. If you've got a better strategy in mind then please share it with us.
 

Noname36

First Grade
Messages
7,067
Agree. But investing 1.5mil a year on two kids isn't the right thing to do IMO.

The club has no other choice. It's not in a position to be able to not take risks. We have to pay well over market value for most players anyway, might as well be on a couple of kids that might add a bit of spark.
 

cb4

First Grade
Messages
9,586
The idea that a team can't function with out a play-making 5/8 is crazy.

So you have a half-back that isn't very creative, but you can partner him with a 5/8 that isn't creative but will get better. I don't follow that.

There are plenty of successful teams in the comp who have a hard running 5/8 who don't necessarily have a great kicking game. Michael Morgan at the Cowboys is a good example, he hardly does any kicking for them. Also Blake Austin at Canberra, he just gets the ball and runs it most of the time and while he can kick it's not one of his real strengths.

Morgan takes about 30% of the Cowboys kicks. Austin has kicked more than Sezer this year.
Both are incredible runners of the ball, but have halves that complement their game. Maybe Hodkinson could complement Birds game, but I doubt it. Hodkinson has regressed badly and is not the foil you want for Bird, who as a 5/8, runs and doesn't pass a lot.

That being said the strategy of playing Bird at 5/8 won't work without a halfback with a solid kicking/passing skill set and the ability to organize the team around the park. Hopefully Brock Lamb will develop into this kind of player, if not then we'll need to hit the market for a half, this is assuming Hodko's form doesn't improve and he's out the door at the end of 2018.

Maybe so. But lamb's kicking game is suspect.

I really hope it works out for you because Bird is a talent. I just don't think he is the 5/8 you need for your team.
 

cb4

First Grade
Messages
9,586
Mate when you're asking good players to come and play for a team that has won 2 games in the last 18 months then you've gotta pay them the big bucks. If you've got a better strategy in mind then please share it with us.

You guys aimed to high with players IMO.
Take you back to 2010 when Will Hopoate, Jamal Idris, Quade Cooper and SBW were all targeted by Cronulla.
They were never real options, but it was a spin to see if we could get a marquee.

In the course of time, you have to build with solid reliable players. We got a bit of luck getting Carney but we never really signed an established super star, more so, guys who were looking for an opportunity

Once our rebuild was on the way up then we threw our hat into the ring for a Luke Lewis type player.
Kids are a good idea yeh, but what happens in 2 years when you still haven't made the finals? Because you are a long way off from competing for the top 8, let alone making it.
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
26,697
You guys aimed to high with players IMO.
Take you back to 2010 when Will Hopoate, Jamal Idris, Quade Cooper and SBW were all targeted by Cronulla.
They were never real options, but it was a spin to see if we could get a marquee.

In the course of time, you have to build with solid reliable players. We got a bit of luck getting Carney but we never really signed an established super star, more so, guys who were looking for an opportunity

Once our rebuild was on the way up then we threw our hat into the ring for a Luke Lewis type player.
Kids are a good idea yeh, but what happens in 2 years when you still haven't made the finals? Because you are a long way off from competing for the top 8, let alone making it.
You know the same bloke that helped Flanno with your rebuild - Darren Mooney - is orchestrating ours as well, yeah? Do you doubt his ability to manoeuvre a salary cap effectively?

We're taking a punt on Bird, we need to spend overs. We've tried to get some old blokes in and end up with Josh Starlings. We've also brought in guys like Ken Sio, Rory Kostjaysn and Jamie Buhrer who all fit the mould of solid, reliable players that you're talking about. We're going to fill in a few more positions than you guys did with kids from within by the looks, but once you cut all the bullshit, our rebuilds look pretty much the same. We're leaning a bit more on youth, but wait until the end of the year before you judge our recruitment - I'm sure it won't only be kids, we're just having an easier time getting kids over the line at the moment - which is actually a positive.

Your posts just come across as another fan of a team from who've we've stolen a trick, and you're trying to convince yourself more than anyone else that your club has done right, and ours wrong. We got the same shit from the Cowboys, but it wasn't Pongas ability to play fullback that they poo-poo'd, it was his ability to handle the "pressure of being the main man" down at Newcastle at such a young age. I think everyones just going to have to wait until we get all of these blokes together and see what Brown can do with them.
 
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betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
Ponga and Bird are great signings no doubt but you need to go out and get 3 or 4 quality nrl forwards imo. Giving out long big money contracts to those two obviously is what you had to do to get them but how do you put a quality team around them? Those two players alone probably don't get you out of the bottom four next season imo. Are those two good enough to attract more good players without having to pay massive overs or take risks on long contracts? You have a lot of money to spend now but you cant keep giving out massive overs to guys, you will just f**k your cap up again. Also if you are still sitting in the bottom 4 in 2 years is there a chance one or both of these guys will just switch off and collect their cheques until they can get out? I'm not saying these things will all happen but hopefully whoevers running the show at Newy is considering all this.
 
Messages
566
Morgan is a horrible comparison, he can get away with kicking less when you have Lachlan Coote, who has one of the best kicking games in the NRL chiming in.
 

Noname36

First Grade
Messages
7,067
Ponga and Bird are great signings no doubt but you need to go out and get 3 or 4 quality nrl forwards imo. Giving out long big money contracts to those two obviously is what you had to do to get them but how do you put a quality team around them? Those two players alone probably don't get you out of the bottom four next season imo. Are those two good enough to attract more good players without having to pay massive overs or take risks on long contracts? You have a lot of money to spend now but you cant keep giving out massive overs to guys, you will just f**k your cap up again. Also if you are still sitting in the bottom 4 in 2 years is there a chance one or both of these guys will just switch off and collect their cheques until they can get out? I'm not saying these things will all happen but hopefully whoevers running the show at Newy is considering all this.

And it's been well documented that the club are chasing quality and experienced props hard.

Why does every opposition supporter seem to think that the Knights are banking on two young kids coming in and being our saviour?

They've done absolutely nothing to suggest anything of the sort. They're going out and targeting upgrades in every position.

We're going to pay well over market value regardless of who we sign to play fullback and #6.
 

Mr_Knightside

Juniors
Messages
2,375
Morgan is a horrible comparison, he can get away with kicking less when you have Lachlan Coote, who has one of the best kicking games in the NRL chiming in.

I think it's a pretty good comparison actually because in my post I recognized the need for other players around him to do the majority of the kicking which is what we will need if we bring Bird here.
 

Mr_Knightside

Juniors
Messages
2,375
And it's been well documented that the club are chasing quality and experienced props hard.

Why does every opposition supporter seem to think that the Knights are banking on two young kids coming in and being our saviour?

They've done absolutely nothing to suggest anything of the sort. They're going out and targeting upgrades in every position.

We're going to pay well over market value regardless of who we sign to play fullback and #6.

Haha yeah I find it weird that opposition supporters are up in arms about us throwing good money at a couple of good young players. If anything our recruitment since Brown got here has pretty much just been a couple of experienced first graders and a bunch of fringe first graders, we could continue along these lines for the next couple of years and we may unearth the occasional good player and we'll probably get ourselves off the bottom of the ladder but I don't think that any of the guys that we've bought or currently have in our side are capable of taking the team to the next level which is playing finals football. Getting a few quality players and complimenting them with a few older guys while we bring through the next generation has always been the plan and Brown/Mooney have always stuck to it, so I don't know why a bunch of fans of other teams have their noses out of joint about it.
 

Mr_Knightside

Juniors
Messages
2,375
Ponga has no kicking game.

Never said he did...

I think my point may have been lost on you, I was implying that if we can have Bird utilizing his running game and leave the kicking duties to others in the team then it will work, the fact that Morgan has other players in the team that cover the kicking means he doesn't need to do so.
 

cb4

First Grade
Messages
9,586
You know the same bloke that helped Flanno with your rebuild - Darren Mooney - is orchestrating ours as well, yeah? Do you doubt his ability to manoeuvre a salary cap effectively?

We're taking a punt on Bird, we need to spend overs. We've tried to get some old blokes in and end up with Josh Starlings. We've also brought in guys like Ken Sio, Rory Kostjaysn and Jamie Buhrer who all fit the mould of solid, reliable players that you're talking about. We're going to fill in a few more positions than you guys did with kids from within by the looks, but once you cut all the bullshit, our rebuilds look pretty much the same. We're leaning a bit more on youth, but wait until the end of the year before you judge our recruitment - I'm sure it won't only be kids, we're just having an easier time getting kids over the line at the moment - which is actually a positive.

Your posts just come across as another fan of a team from who've we've stolen a trick, and you're trying to convince yourself more than anyone else that your club has done right, and ours wrong. We got the same shit from the Cowboys, but it wasn't Pongas ability to play fullback that they poo-poo'd, it was his ability to handle the "pressure of being the main man" down at Newcastle at such a young age. I think everyones just going to have to wait until we get all of these blokes together and see what Brown can do with them.

Apologies, I don't mean it to come that way. I have a vested interested in Newcastle at the moment and just think they are going about things the wrong way.
As for Bird, you can have a look at my posts since pre-season and before when he was linked with a move to the Titans, I don't want to pay him big money. I don't think he is worth it.

My biggest fear for you playing him in the 6 is he will be horrible, and you will be stuck paying him the better part of a million dollars to play edge second row.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
And it's been well documented that the club are chasing quality and experienced props hard.

Why does every opposition supporter seem to think that the Knights are banking on two young kids coming in and being our saviour?

They've done absolutely nothing to suggest anything of the sort. They're going out and targeting upgrades in every position.

We're going to pay well over market value regardless of who we sign to play fullback and #6.

Because it almost feels like you've got the cart before the horse. There have been plenty of forwards on the market who could improve your side and you haven't signed any of them. Anyway that's just my 2 cents, I understand you get touchy when clubs fans come in here and don't fully agree with what you are doing but it just seems like from comments like yours and what the club is actually doing they are hoping to just throw money at star players and prospects until you are out of trouble when the reality is paying massive overs is a time tested way of getting clubs in trouble, not getting them out of it.

Ponga is as close to a sure thing as you will get at his age, I can fully understand that signing. But look at Jack Bird for a minute, whatever the figure you've offered its obviously spine money and Bird is being kept out of the spine by Chad Townsend right now, if he looks shit in the halves next year what do you do? If you move him out of the halves his contract becomes even bigger overs. Yes you have attracted a quality player to your club but at what cost? If you end up having to go out and get another half does that mean you cant sign the quality forwards you need? There is a lot of question marks there.
 
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perverse

Referee
Messages
26,697
Because it almost feels like you've got the cart before the horse. There have been plenty of forwards on the market who could improve your side and you haven't signed any of them. Anyway that's just my 2 cents, I understand you get touchy when clubs fans come in here and don't fully agree with what you are doing but it just seems like from comments like yours and what the club is actually doing they are hoping to just throw money at star players and prospects until you are out of trouble when the reality is paying massive overs is a time tested way of getting clubs in trouble, not getting them out of it.
It's not so much being touchy as much as we've discussed these issues in the context of our club ad nauseam, and that the criticisms, whilst often valid, have generally been considered acceptable risk for a fan base totally starved of anything resembling a competitive outfit. I get your point of view, from the perspective of a recent premiership winning club it seems rich for Bird, but for us it's like the Prom Queen giving the class redhead a sly wristy behind the dunnies to even be linked to a player the quality of Bird.

We need other positions filled for sure, and we're trying to do so, but that doesn't mean we should pass up an opportunity to secure quality when it's there, either.
 

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