Rumours and Stuff

[Poupou Escobar]

I see what you're saying, but if he is good enough to make breaks himself, then does it make that much difference?

I would like to see Gutherson create space to put our backs away, too - but if he keeps breaking the line himself, it's kind of a moot point, I think...

I don't think it is. There just isn't that much space for a half to always make the break rather than passing. So as I see it, linebreaks without LBAs represent many missed opportunities that aren't reflected in the stats, i.e. how often did he back himself rather than passing and then not make the break?

As a example, Shaun Johnson backs himself and made 15 linebreaks last year, in 24 games. But he also made 24 LBAs. This year he is 3 and 3 in 4 games.

For Gutherson you can't say the opportunities (for LBAs) aren't there, or that he converted every LBA opportunity by breaking the line himself. The game doesn't work that way. NRL defences don't work that way.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I can't see it making a difference. Only difference it would make is whether he'd be considered a running half or ball playing half.

So what is Shaun Johnson? Or Anthony Milford? Or Michael Morgan? All made 10+ linebreaks and 20+ LBAs last year. Even 'running halves' need to have some ball playing ability or they are not really halves.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

But a ball playing half should also be a running half. If a half only ever passes then the defence just slide across and covers other players.

Agreed. Every NRL half needs some measure of running threat or they won't be able to commit defenders.

 

[Noise]

According to fox sports/nrl stats gutherson has 2 line break assists. The same number as Michael Morgan, one more than Milford and Townsend

 

[IFR33K]

So what is Shaun Johnson? Or Anthony Milford? Or Michael Morgan? All made 10+ linebreaks and 20+ LBAs last year. Even 'running halves' need to have some ball playing ability or they are not really halves.

I never said he wasn't able/capable of passing. I just said he could be more of a running type player.

And he's 4 games in after a full off season training in the 6. There's every chance in the world his game will further continue to develop.

 

[hindy111]

So Pou what additions do you think our team needs?

 

[hindy111]

According to NRL stats Gutherson has no TA or Lbas but 5 Lbs. Only 1 LB off the lead which is very good for a half.
At some point he needs to add to those but is currently the best half in comp at breaking the line.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

According to fox sports/nrl stats gutherson has 2 line break assists. The same number as Michael Morgan, one more than Milford and Townsend

According to both Champion Data and NRL.com (two separate compilers) he has zero LBAs.

 

[Noise]

According to both Champion Data and NRL.com (two separate compilers) he has zero LBAs.

Well I looked at the Fox ones - I thought they were linked to the nrl but obviously not. Has him with 3 tries, 5 linebreaks and 2 LBA's

 

[Bazal]

I'm sure I can remember Gutho putting some merkin into a gap.....

 

[hindy111]

Only 4 forwards in the whole NRL competition are yet to break a tackle. Including bench locks-second rowers.
Woods-Grant-Boyd-Mannah

Mannah and Woods are doing a lot of work thou. Boyd form has been woefull

 

[Poupou Escobar]

So Pou what additions do you think our team needs?

I think we are competitive as we are, and only Moeroa is off contract (and Radradra leaving). In that sense we need to re-sign Moeroa or sign another edge forward (Edwards isn't an effective defender over 80 minutes).

But if we have money to spend, and I'm sure we do, then we can look for value. However since we have an entire first grade quality 17 (minus that winger and edge forward) already contracted we have to be careful about making a top 17 paid player redundant. There are a few ways it could go.

Firstly we need a winger to replace Radradra. That should be our priority. Plus we need a goalkicker. Kyle Feldt is almost a no-brainer (but is he actually a good goalkicker?) Nofoaluma is actually a better player.

After that, if we don't re-sign Moeroa we have one top 17 spot open, and given the versatility of Gutherson and Takairangi we could fill that spot in a number of ways. My preference is something like this:

4. Gutherson
7. A halfback recruited externally
12. Takairangi

Other options are:

4. A centre recruited externally (or Auva'a retained)
6. Gutherson
12. Takairangi

or

4. Takairangi
6. Gutherson
12. An edge forward recruited externally (or Moeroa retained)

There are plenty of other positions that could be strengthened, but these would lead to a top 17 (and probably well paid) player being pushed into reserve grade. Not necessarily a bad thing if he is replaced by someone better, and we do need to be spending the money. But consider these guys are already contracted for next year:

1. French
2.
3. Jennings
4. Takairangi
5. Hoffman
6. Gutherson
7. Norman
8. Matagi
9. Pritchard
10. Mannah
11. Ma'u
12.
13. Scott
14. Brown
15. Edwards
16. Alvaro
17. Vave

All first graders, IMO. Do we want them in reserve grade?

Jack Morris and Jamal Fogarty (I'm pretty sure) are both contracted for 2018 as well, though not first graders, obviously.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Only 4 forwards in the whole NRL competition are yet to break a tackle. Including bench locks-second rowers.
Woods-Grant-Boyd-Mannah

Mannah and Woods are doing a lot of work thou. Boyd form has been woefull

For middle forwards, breaking tackles is often about how they're used. If you never get one-on-one with a defender you're probably not going to break many tackles.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

As an example, the two blokes in our team with the most tackle breaks this year are French and Hoffman. I believe Matty Bowen had the most tackle breaks in the comp a few years ago. If you make contact with a defender and then get away (like if you're running sideways, for example) you will be credited with a tackle break.

 

[hindy111]

Alvaro to wenty and Matagi bench with a better prop.
Beau Scott may call it quits.

I think a halfback unless Dargan is up for it. I just dont see Taka lasting the year in centres.
Sure a lot of our guys are under contract but not to many are old or playing terrible.
I reckon plenty would get interest from other clubs with most contract paid.Not many would be on silly overs.

 

[bartman]

Only 4 forwards in the whole NRL competition are yet to break a tackle. Including bench locks-second rowers.
Woods-Grant-Boyd-Mannah

The chances of Tim breaking a tackle are about the same as Hayne not taking the highest contract on offer.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Alvaro to wenty and Matagi bench with a better prop.

Matagi and Vave on the bench together means having them on the field together. Their work rate means our defence would collapse in the middle.

Beau Scott may call it quits.

You're off your f**king head. No player wants to quit with the money rolling into the game. They all want to play until they're 40. Those who don't are the ones unhappy with the offers. Or unique individuals like Wicks. Scott might retire at the end of this contract but no chance he will quit during it. He has massive medical bills to pay.

 

[Djay]

Our forwards play as many minutes as the forwards at every other club.

Maybe, every team that has won the comp like previously mentioned have forwards who play massive and damaging minutes.

Burgess, Tamou, Taumalolo, JWH, Fifita, even Graham included there've all won comps or made grand finals.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

There are only 480 minutes to spread amongst your forwards, including the hooker(s). If you don't include the hooker there are only 400 minutes.

 

[Eelementary]

I don't think it is. There just isn't that much space for a half to always make the break rather than passing. So as I see it, linebreaks without LBAs represent many missed opportunities that aren't reflected in the stats, i.e. how often did he back himself rather than passing and then not make the break?

As a example, Shaun Johnson backs himself and made 15 linebreaks last year, in 24 games. But he also made 24 LBAs. This year he is 3 and 3 in 4 games.

For Gutherson you can't say the opportunities (for LBAs) aren't there, or that he converted every LBA opportunity by breaking the line himself. The game doesn't work that way. NRL defences don't work that way.

Interesting points.

I'm sure that for the first half of the season, that Arthur is telling Gutherson to keep it simple, and back himself.

As he develops, I'm sure he will start to accrue LBA's.